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      08-29-2011, 01:15 AM   #1
mikymu
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Smile Thinking about getting an E92 M3 ... input please

Hey Guys

My first post here

I have not been back in the M3 world for a while. After transition from E46 M3 to GT3 RS and now flying in a GT3 Cup car, my sore bone is ready for a "comfortable" sports car for everyday and occasional track use. There are not many "real" sports car left in the market now days. They are either too fat, too ugly or just plain old blend as tap water. I am considering a E92 M3 because it can hold 4 people and having two small kids helps. I can also use it occasionally for track duty when my GT3 Cup is in service. Here are some questions for those of you with first hand experience in the E92 chassis

WEIGHT:

E92 M3 weigh in at a whopping 3704 lbs! Everyone is going fat like it's in fashion and even Lotus is not spared. What makes the M3 so heavy and what are some of the ways to shave couple hundred lbs without throwing away seats, AC etc? I am going to add a full titanium Akrapovic exhaust which will only shave 40 lbs or so .... 500 lbs to go.

STYLE

I was disappointed with E92 design when it first release. I still think E46 look much better in many ways. I seen several spy photo of the upcoming 3 series that will replace E90 ... man! what a fugly piece of crap. BMW is going Camry and there is no turning back for a large faceless corporation. It's all about meeting the investor's expectation and passion and art are forgotten. This is true with all car makers. Just look at the new Ferrari and the upcoming Porsche 991 ...OMG. I think E92 will be a very good looking car for the next couple 3 series generations

TRANSMISSION

6 spd or DCT? I drove a Porsche Spyder with PDK or their version of the DCT and it was amazing! blip on down shift and change gears faster than you can blink. So far BMW's DCT could not match Ferrari or Porsche's design with many defect and flaws most notably in shift delay. car and Driver or better know as BMW's bed fellow in the past had nothing but praise for M3 had great reservation for DCT because it will not respond to driver's command especially on the track. The car will not down shift on the track with aggressive driving which breaks driver's concentration and rub precious seconds. I have experience significant delay with DCT in the past on the street where I would count 2-3 seconds before the car change gears. Does it over heat easily? No sense to get DCT if it over heat after two laps in 95F ambient temp. What are your thought and input? I am especially curious about DCT track use. Some says S4 setting solve most issues ....

UNDER STEER

This is another area car and driver have complaint about with the E92 M3. It does not like to turn and just plow aka drift through turns. Is this something that can be easily fixed with larger rear sway bar?

I track with may E92 M3 and they all suffer from severe under steer ... GT3 really kill them through turns. Here is a video of a very wet track at Thunderhill and the E92 M3's under steer did not help through fast turns ... it really has to slow down and tip toe through T11-T15



PRICE and OPTIONS

I will be ordering a new one from factory. Looks like we can get it at invoice or better now days with attractive interest rates. What are your experience in price and order?

As far as options goes, here is what I need. DCT if it can handle track duty, Nav, rear parking sensor and heated seats for wife and that's about it.

SUSPENSION

Is the competition package with lower ride height worth the $$ or does the M3 need after market set up to liven things up? I love my TC Kline suspension on the E46 M3 and are there similar package on the market?

POWER

Full Akrapovic titanium exhaust will add 20 hp and combine with pulley and software, intake mods you may be able to extract 15-20 more which add up to about 455 hp at the crank in best possible scenario. Are there any more hp to extract without going force induction?

OK, that's enough questions for now ... back to learning how to drive the damn GT3 Cup car lol

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      08-29-2011, 01:25 AM   #2
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sick ass car that gt3 cup. sounds like you dont really like the M3 had mostly negatives to share with us? maybe its not for you.
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      08-29-2011, 01:32 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
sick ass car that gt3 cup. sounds like you dont really like the M3 had mostly negatives to share with us? maybe its not for you.
^ what he said. you should get another porsche.
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      08-29-2011, 01:32 AM   #4
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I have an E90, but my comments are in reference to the 6MT. in stock form, it's garbage imo. Between the clutch with the non-linear assist spring, the hollow (literally and figureatively) feeling shifter which is notchy in a bad way, and poor pedal placement, it'll need some work for track use, especially if you're accustomed to better shifters in Porsches. Compared to my S2K's shifter/clutch/pedal placement (it as a system rating a 9/10 on my scale), I'd give the M3's a 4/10. It's that bad and needs work.

Figure on adding a set of ultimate pedals, taking off the assist springs, and adding a ssk with a weighted shift knob.

As for weight, I believe your expectations are not realistic. If you're looking at knocking 500 lbs off the car without taking drastic measures, it's just not going to happen.

Your GT3 sounds awesome by the way.
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      08-29-2011, 01:33 AM   #5
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Heres my take on it:

Weight: When my car got corner balanced it weighted in at 3475 pounds, not bad at all.

Style: I personally think a m3 is beautiful!

Transmission: I have a 6 speed, however if i was going to buy again ill go with the DCT. Itll handle track duties just fine.

Understeer: no comment as ive never tracked my car, however with my suspension setup/wheel/tire setup, Its very minimal

Price: I think for what you get, the M3 is a fudging winner. Its a complete car in every aspect.

Suspension: I got the competition package, and if your going to mod its a waste of money.

Power: Im mixed about this. The m3 is a quick car no doubt, I think the power delivery is so smooth you dont feel it. You'll be in 6th gear going 70mph, you slightly accelerate and your at 110mph in no time. You never know how fast it really is until you do something crazy and your like damn! However at times you feel like its slow. I dont drive my car everyday, im usually in a Volvo everyday. When I get in the M and step on it...im like woah this is fast!
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      08-29-2011, 01:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1cleanm3 View Post
, I think the power delivery is so smooth you dont feel it. You'll be in 6th gear going 70mph, you slightly accelerate and your at 110mph in no time.
Spot on. I've had a few people in the car with me who though the car wasn't as quick as they had imagined, after I had made an at-speed acceleration run in gear. I then did the same thing over but asked them to watch the speedo, and they quickly changed their tune. The speed really does sneak up on you, and the power delivery is extremely linear.
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      08-29-2011, 01:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piloto View Post
I have an E90, but my comments are in reference to the 6MT. in stock form, it's garbage imo. Between the clutch with the non-linear assist spring, the hollow (literally and figureatively) feeling shifter which is notchy in a bad way, and poor pedal placement, it'll need some work for track use, especially if you're accustomed to better shifters in Porsches. Compared to my S2K's shifter/clutch/pedal placement (it as a system rating a 9/10 on my scale), I'd give the M3's a 4/10. It's that bad and needs work.

Figure on adding a set of ultimate pedals, taking off the assist springs, and adding a ssk with a weighted shift knob.

As for weight, I believe your expectations are not realistic. If you're looking at knocking 500 lbs off the car without taking drastic measures, it's just not going to happen.

Your GT3 sounds awesome by the way.
Your input is much appreciated. I am not looking at taking off 500 lbs and I know it's not realistic but it is what M3 needs to be competitive on the track. I will be happy to knock off 250 lbs when I am on the track and have a blast passing my GT3 buddies

I am leaning getting a DCT and give it a try

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1cleanm3 View Post
Heres my take on it:

Weight: When my car got corner balanced it weighted in at 3475 pounds, not bad at all.

Style: I personally think a m3 is beautiful!

Transmission: I have a 6 speed, however if i was going to buy again ill go with the DCT. Itll handle track duties just fine.

Understeer: no comment as ive never tracked my car, however with my suspension setup/wheel/tire setup, Its very minimal

Price: I think for what you get, the M3 is a fudging winner. Its a complete car in every aspect.

Suspension: I got the competition package, and if your going to mod its a waste of money.

Power: Im mixed about this. The m3 is a quick car no doubt, I think the power delivery is so smooth you dont feel it. You'll be in 6th gear going 70mph, you slightly accelerate and your at 110mph in no time. You never know how fast it really is until you do something crazy and your like damn! However at times you feel like its slow. I dont drive my car everyday, im usually in a Volvo everyday. When I get in the M and step on it...im like woah this is fast!
Yes, now days it's very hard to get a complete package like the M3 at $60K. Will try out the DCT and go with basic suspension since I will be installing an after market setup. 3475 is with 1/2 tank gas and no driver? That's a very good weight! My 06 E46 M3 with all kinds with CSL mods and weight saving measure came in at 3180 lbs 1/2 tank gas and no driver.
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      08-29-2011, 01:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piloto View Post
Spot on. I've had a few people in the car with me who though the car wasn't as quick as they had imagined, after I had made an at-speed acceleration run in gear. I then did the same thing over but asked them to watch the speedo, and they quickly changed their tune. The speed really does sneak up on you, and the power delivery is extremely linear.
Sounds great. My soon to be Akrapovic exhaust and stiffer suspension will wake up the dead
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      08-29-2011, 01:48 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by mikymu View Post
So far BMW's DCT could not match Ferrari or Porsche's design with many defect and flaws most notably in shift delay.


The DCT is NOT SMG.

Although different, Getrag makes the DCT's used in both the M3 and the Ferrari California.
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      08-29-2011, 01:53 AM   #10
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Although different, Getrag makes the DCT's used in both the M3 and the Ferrari California.
interesting ...
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      08-29-2011, 01:57 AM   #11
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Go test drive the DCT.



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      08-29-2011, 02:35 AM   #12
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GT3 better than e92 m3 for track use for sure....but for daily drive...i think e92 m3 would be better....you should compare with e92 m3 GTS....^.^
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      08-29-2011, 04:48 AM   #13
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Hey Mike, I'm an RS owner and i'm on rennlist so familiar with your past and present car. I think you need to try and order an E90 M3 sedan if you can. Last month of production is September. I have one as an everyday car and its great with 2 boys. understeer is fixable with square setup and proper camber just like in the E46. DCT is good all around transmission. brakes need work because of weight for any kind of track work. other than that, don't need to obsess over the weight so much. you got a cup car anyways!

as I know you will change the car up and probably post some great DIY's I would say first look into a nice set of seats for front. CRT seats are probably best way to go. Akra is lighter but not much in power gain or even sound. best way to save weight is wheels and brakes. good luck with your decision!

funny now that i compete, the RS is getting much less use. I may have to switch to cup car myself in next year or so.

-Jim
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      08-29-2011, 12:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by karussell View Post
Hey Mike, I'm an RS owner and i'm on rennlist so familiar with your past and present car. I think you need to try and order an E90 M3 sedan if you can. Last month of production is September. I have one as an everyday car and its great with 2 boys. understeer is fixable with square setup and proper camber just like in the E46. DCT is good all around transmission. brakes need work because of weight for any kind of track work. other than that, don't need to obsess over the weight so much. you got a cup car anyways!

as I know you will change the car up and probably post some great DIY's I would say first look into a nice set of seats for front. CRT seats are probably best way to go. Akra is lighter but not much in power gain or even sound. best way to save weight is wheels and brakes. good luck with your decision!

funny now that i compete, the RS is getting much less use. I may have to switch to cup car myself in next year or so.

-Jim
Thanks Jim for the suggestion. Keep your RS. These Cup car is very hard to drive with a super steep learning curve. No ABS means alot of flat spot tires until you learn how to modulate brakes.

Sedan is nice but I can't bringmyself to get a 4 door. Already have a van and 4 door truck so that's too many doors

Yes, will give DCT a try
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      08-29-2011, 12:59 PM   #15
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Personally, I think the e92 M would fit what you desire(occasional track use and daily driver)...I remember you from the 6 speed..I use to have a 997 C4S but went with e92 M3 for practical reasons.

Keep your cup car for the track...it is very extreme but it seems like that is what you want/desire.

e92 on the track is heavy and will understeer...but easy to drive...doesnt feel as fast as it is due to weight...but I wouldnt spend alot of money with mods on e92 cause it willl never fee like a GT3RS or cup car so imho would be a waste of money.

I would only get light track wheels and R compounds on e92 for occasional track day...but real strength of e92 is a fun, sporty but practical car that is great as a dd...has useable trunk and looks good and has back seats.

You would have the best of both worlds if you have cup car an e93 M dd imho.

BTW, I love the DCT on street and track!.....best feature on the car imho...will never go back to MT ever again for my weekend fun car.
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      08-29-2011, 01:10 PM   #16
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Go test drive the DCT.



Stop posting video's of civic M3's.
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      08-29-2011, 01:49 PM   #17
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Stop posting video's of civic M3's.
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      08-29-2011, 02:01 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mact3333 View Post
Personally, I think the e92 M would fit what you desire(occasional track use and daily driver)...I remember you from the 6 speed..I use to have a 997 C4S but went with e92 M3 for practical reasons.

Keep your cup car for the track...it is very extreme but it seems like that is what you want/desire.

e92 on the track is heavy and will understeer...but easy to drive...doesnt feel as fast as it is due to weight...but I wouldnt spend alot of money with mods on e92 cause it willl never fee like a GT3RS or cup car so imho would be a waste of money.

I would only get light track wheels and R compounds on e92 for occasional track day...but real strength of e92 is a fun, sporty but practical car that is great as a dd...has useable trunk and looks good and has back seats.

You would have the best of both worlds if you have cup car an e93 M dd imho.

BTW, I love the DCT on street and track!.....best feature on the car imho...will never go back to MT ever again for my weekend fun car.
Thanks for the suggestion mact3333. I love hoe PDK drives in a Spyder and hope DCT can deliver the same satisfaction. I have driven couple DCT in the past and everyone of them had several seconds of delay with shift - perhaps because they are new. Yes, I think a M3 will be nice fit for occasional track and dd. I will try very hard to contain myself as far as mods goes ...
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      08-29-2011, 02:02 PM   #19
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Great video by the way ... thanks!
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      08-29-2011, 02:10 PM   #20
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You're going to give M3 drivers a bad name pulling this like that. :P
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      08-29-2011, 02:13 PM   #21
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I had a 997S 6 speed with a bunch of mods including H&R's which made it handle like it was on rails. But, you're comparing apples to oranges. The Porsche is a dedicated track car modified to drive on the road. The M3 is the opposite. That said, the DCT is FAR better than the PDK in my opinion. Shifts are crisper and I've never experienced the delay you are talking about. I do miss the Porsche but I felt like as a daily driver it lacked something. Throw a nice exhaust on the M3 and enjoy the V8 growl you'll never get from the P. car.
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      08-29-2011, 03:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
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You're going to give M3 drivers a bad name pulling this like that. :P
it's ok because, M3 driver's have no friends.
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