BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-20-2011, 10:03 PM   #45
k2e15
First Lieutenant
 
k2e15's Avatar
 
Drives: E46 M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bay Area, CA

Posts: 319
iTrader: (0)

Carbon Fiber roof or bust...it sets it off. I found an e92 just how I wanted and it had a sunroof....I walked. But it's your call if you like it go for it!!!
__________________


06 M... Lovin every second of it!
2006 BMW E46 ///M3, Silver Gray, SMG
k2e15 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-20-2011, 11:03 PM   #46
Legion5
Major
 
Legion5's Avatar
 
Drives: e92
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 1,371
iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenGuy View Post
Hey gents - I've found a 2010 M3 with pretty much everything I'm looking for, except that it has a sunroof. Would this be a dealbreaker for you guys? Also, a lot of posts talk about how it degrades performance; how much would it actually effect the numbers such as 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc?

Thanks...
Actually the sunroof is something that is a must-have for me with the M3. The sunroof makes the car noticably quiter (I've tested them back to back and it's actually significant at highway speeds) also the sunroof adds a lot of light to the interior which makes it looks much much better in my oppinion. I originally wanted the carbon roof but decided on getting the sunroof because the ambient light and noise differences were too great.

I think most people would consider your question ridiculous to be honest. While BMW advertises the carbon roof as an important feature, it's just marketing speak.

I actually worked designing supercars and one of the projects I was specifically tasked with was balancing, features vs weight. The difference the carbon roof makes for performance is a TOTAL JOKE

In terms of acceleration, the difference would be... wait for it... two tenths of 1 percent. *

In fact the difference is so small that a change in elevation of just 50 feet** would wipe out the gains that the carbon roof has.

It's worthless but it's pretty. Personally I'm just having my sunroofed car's roof redone in carbon fiber.

Edit: *assuming no wheel spin or air resistance **at sea level, at normal temperature, humidity and pressure
__________________

Clean cars are happy cars!
CANON PHOTOGRAPHER

Last edited by Legion5; 08-20-2011 at 11:49 PM.
Legion5 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-20-2011, 11:07 PM   #47
Totti
Troll
 
Totti's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion5 View Post
Actually the sunroof is something that is a must-have for me with the M3. The sunroof makes the car noticably quiter and better for long drives for me.

I think most people would consider your question ridiculous. While BMW advertises the carbon roof as an important feature, it's just marketing speak.

I actually worked designing supercars and one of the projects I was specifically tasked with is balancing, features vs weight. In any realistic sense the difference the carbon roof makes in performance is a TOTAL JOKE

In terms of acceleration, the difference would be... wait for it... two tenths of 1 percent.

In fact the difference is so small that a change in elevation of just 50 feet would wipe out the gains that the carbon roof has.

Yeah. Worthless.
Wow! Even though I generally disagree with every post you make, with your constant ramblings of personal experience and baseless factual claims; I actually concur with you on this one Legion!
__________________
BMW E92 M3 Coupe | Jerez Black | Fox Red Extended / Carbon Black Trim| Fully Loaded | Moonroof | 6MT | Gintani Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_TRADER
Use the stick like u would a manual. If that doesn't work, put it in D mode and put both hands at 10 and 2. If that doesn't work, just sit on your right hand.
Totti is offline   Italy
0
Reply With Quote
      08-20-2011, 11:13 PM   #48
Mahmood07
Captain
 
Mahmood07's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Boston->San Diego->Bahrain

Posts: 809
iTrader: (0)

Light color:

CF > Sunroof

Dark color:

Sunroof > CF
__________________
///M3 Mods: | Eisenmann Race Exhaust | Primary Cats Delete (TTP) | ESS Tune | 19" Advan RS | Eibach Springs | MS Air Filter | BMW Perf. Spoiler | BMW Perf. Splitters | Euro LCI Tail lights | Angel iBright v.3.0 | 20% Tint | Matte black Kidney Grills | CF Side Gills | Painted Reflectors | Black M3 emblem
Mahmood07 is offline   Bahrain
0
Reply With Quote
      08-20-2011, 11:14 PM   #49
Totti
Troll
 
Totti's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahmood07 View Post
Light color:

CF > Sunroof

Dark color:

Sunroof > CF
+1
__________________
BMW E92 M3 Coupe | Jerez Black | Fox Red Extended / Carbon Black Trim| Fully Loaded | Moonroof | 6MT | Gintani Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_TRADER
Use the stick like u would a manual. If that doesn't work, put it in D mode and put both hands at 10 and 2. If that doesn't work, just sit on your right hand.
Totti is offline   Italy
0
Reply With Quote
      08-20-2011, 11:15 PM   #50
gemini330zhp
Major
 
gemini330zhp's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3 E90
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: BergenCo NewJersey

Posts: 1,181
iTrader: (0)

I have a e90 M3 and no sunroof. If you want to see the sun get a Vert.
__________________
2008 Jet Black E90 M3 6SPD no sunroof and 18s to my specs


gemini330zhp is offline   Philippines
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2011, 12:42 AM   #51
Legion5
Major
 
Legion5's Avatar
 
Drives: e92
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 1,371
iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totti View Post
Wow! Even though I generally disagree with every post you make, with your constant ramblings of personal experience and baseless factual claims; I actually concur with you on this one Legion!

The words baseless factual claim are a nonsensical oxymoron.

You have a problem, Totti. When someone posts facts that disagree with your viewpoint you have a problem with the facts. You get angry at them, and angry at the person who posted them. Those are telltale signs of someone who is not only very biased but is willfully ignorant.

Look, I do more research than the vast majority of people on these cars. I then try to post reasonable conclusions from my extensive research. You're free to reach your own conclusions. In fact I welcome different conclusions because there are plenty of sides to a story.

The first time you replied to me you blew up about how I'm completely wrong that the M3 looks better in lighter colors. The simple truth is I posted that fundamental well established art principles agreed that the M3 looked best in light colors, and I mentioned that out of several dozen talks with M3 salespeople even without solicitation they said lighter colors looked better and never said darker colors looked better. I then drew the conclusion that lighter colors look better. All of that is very reasonable and you are very unreasonable to have the problems with me that you do.

That's all I have to say to this.
__________________

Clean cars are happy cars!
CANON PHOTOGRAPHER
Legion5 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-21-2011, 01:38 AM   #52
JBe92m3NY
New Member
 
JBe92m3NY's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M3 e92 ZCP 2011.75
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York

Posts: 14
iTrader: (0)

IMO it all depends on the color of the car. I ordered a sunroof because I ordered mine jet black and the carbon fiber roof doesn't contrast enough to tell the difference. Also, I don't have the driving acumen to be able to drive the car to its full potential, so the weight difference is negligible.
JBe92m3NY is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 11:46 AM   #53
ZenGuy
New Member
 
Drives: 2011 335is
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: FL

Posts: 19
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion5 View Post
Actually the sunroof is something that is a must-have for me with the M3. The sunroof makes the car noticably quiter (I've tested them back to back and it's actually significant at highway speeds) also the sunroof adds a lot of light to the interior which makes it looks much much better in my oppinion. I originally wanted the carbon roof but decided on getting the sunroof because the ambient light and noise differences were too great.

I think most people would consider your question ridiculous to be honest. While BMW advertises the carbon roof as an important feature, it's just marketing speak.

I actually worked designing supercars and one of the projects I was specifically tasked with was balancing, features vs weight. The difference the carbon roof makes for performance is a TOTAL JOKE

In terms of acceleration, the difference would be... wait for it... two tenths of 1 percent. *

In fact the difference is so small that a change in elevation of just 50 feet** would wipe out the gains that the carbon roof has.

It's worthless but it's pretty. Personally I'm just having my sunroofed car's roof redone in carbon fiber.

Edit: *assuming no wheel spin or air resistance **at sea level, at normal temperature, humidity and pressure

Some interesting info there, thanks for posting. I had searched through some old threads and found numbers ranging from .2 to .4 secs slower for the sunroof equipped models, so it had me concerned.
ZenGuy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 12:07 PM   #54
MineralWeiss
USAF Retired
 
Drives: 2011 BMW M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Oklahoma City

Posts: 250
iTrader: (0)

I have to say it would be a dealbreaker for me...just the other way around! In fact, when I ordered mine, the dealer left off the sunroof and had to reorder the car. Luckily, I caught it about a week into order and they were able to get it reordered and it arrived just a couple days later thasn originally estimated.
MineralWeiss is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 12:08 PM   #55
Totti
Troll
 
Totti's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posts: 1,192
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenGuy View Post
Some interesting info there, thanks for posting. I had searched through some old threads and found numbers ranging from .2 to .4 secs slower for the sunroof equipped models, so it had me concerned.
.4 seconds? Haha that is a joke. so If I weigh 155 and you weigh 195 you're basically in a convertible?
__________________
BMW E92 M3 Coupe | Jerez Black | Fox Red Extended / Carbon Black Trim| Fully Loaded | Moonroof | 6MT | Gintani Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_TRADER
Use the stick like u would a manual. If that doesn't work, put it in D mode and put both hands at 10 and 2. If that doesn't work, just sit on your right hand.
Totti is offline   Italy
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 12:13 PM   #56
gthal
Brigadier General
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 3,015
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenGuy View Post
Some interesting info there, thanks for posting. I had searched through some old threads and found numbers ranging from .2 to .4 secs slower for the sunroof equipped models, so it had me concerned.
Whether what Legion5 says is true or not, the issue to me is not acceleration. Who cares if it makes any difference. The difference, if there is one, is the benefit of a lower center of gravity. I had read somewhere that it lowered the center of gravity by a few centimetres (or something thereabouts). Similar to the benefit of a ZCP lowered car. Does the lowered center of gravity matter... ??

I think either way you will be happy as long as you get what you like. I would not get the CF roof for performance gains. I like the CF roof because it is an M3 specific thing and, to me, makes the car a little more special and different. I get more comments and questions on the CF roof than anything else (other than my wheels).

Also, I do NOT believe there is an appreciable increase in road noise with the CF roof. A colleague has a sunroof in his e90 and his car is no quieter on the road than mine. Not saying that Legion5 is wrong, necessarily, just that I did not have the same experience as he did. If the CF roof is louder than it is only marginally so. Anyway, I actually find my coupe with the CF is VERY quiet on the highway... maybe too quiet sometimes
__________________
2015 Austin Yellow M4 | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold

Last edited by gthal; 08-22-2011 at 06:26 PM.
gthal is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 12:17 PM   #57
gthal
Brigadier General
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 3,015
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion5 View Post
The words baseless factual claim are a nonsensical oxymoron.

You have a problem, Totti. When someone posts facts that disagree with your viewpoint you have a problem with the facts. You get angry at them, and angry at the person who posted them. Those are telltale signs of someone who is not only very biased but is willfully ignorant.

Look, I do more research than the vast majority of people on these cars. I then try to post reasonable conclusions from my extensive research. You're free to reach your own conclusions. In fact I welcome different conclusions because there are plenty of sides to a story.

The first time you replied to me you blew up about how I'm completely wrong that the M3 looks better in lighter colors. The simple truth is I posted that fundamental well established art principles agreed that the M3 looked best in light colors, and I mentioned that out of several dozen talks with M3 salespeople even without solicitation they said lighter colors looked better and never said darker colors looked better. I then drew the conclusion that lighter colors look better. All of that is very reasonable and you are very unreasonable to have the problems with me that you do.

That's all I have to say to this.
Legion, I think Totti's issue (and others) is that you present "facts" when they are often really just your opinion. You also are a self proclaimed expert on everything and now you design supercars to boot! So you are a professional photographer who is an expert on color that designs supercars with weight and balance in mind. You can see why many are skeptical

It isn't as though your comments aren't useful but they aren't always the "facts" you want others to think they are. You also sometimes tend to have very bold claims like having polled "dozens" of SA's on light vs dark M3s. We all know that is a load of hooey Anyway, I think Totti's issue isn't you or what you are saying, it is how you are passing off opinion as fact and holding yourself out to be more of an "expert" than anyone else here.
__________________
2015 Austin Yellow M4 | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
gthal is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 12:18 PM   #58
gthal
Brigadier General
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 3,015
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totti View Post
.4 seconds? Haha that is a joke. so If I weigh 155 and you weigh 195 you're basically in a convertible?
Crap... that means for me it's like I'm driving an X5M... I've got to lose a few pounds
__________________
2015 Austin Yellow M4 | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
gthal is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 01:22 PM   #59
Smokey
Lucky Lefty
 
Smokey's Avatar
 
Drives: on twisty roads
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: *

Posts: 718
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 M3  [5.00]
2013 bmw F25 msport  [5.00]
2011 335iS  [4.80]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Legion, I think Totti's issue (and others) is that you present "facts" when they are often really just your opinion. You also are a self proclaimed expert on everything and now you design supercars to boot! So you are a professional photographer who is an expert on color that designs supercars with weight and balance in mind. You can see why many are skeptical

It isn't as though your comments aren't useful but they aren't always the "facts" you want others to think they are. You also sometimes tend to have very bold claims like having polled "dozens" of SA's on light vs dark M3s. We all know that is a load of hooey Anyway, I think Totti's issue isn't you or what you are saying, it is how you are passing off opinion as fact and holding yourself out to be more of an "expert" than anyone else here.

I don't know what's going on here, but this post had me lol
__________________

The Power of M
Smokey is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 01:33 PM   #60
gthal
Brigadier General
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 3,015
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
I don't know what's going on here, but this post had me lol
Glad I can be of some entertainment value.

I was actually trying to be somewhat politically correct and not too offensive in the post (with a tad of sarcasm on the side) but get across some of what I think is the frustration a few people feel over a couple of different thread topics lately. Anyway, don't want to de-rail the thread for the OP.
__________________
2015 Austin Yellow M4 | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
gthal is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 01:56 PM   #61
jphughan
Brigadier General
 
jphughan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.75 M3 E92 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 3,303
iTrader: (0)

I ordered my car with a sunroof for 2 reasons:

- You can hear more of the engine sound with the sunroof open (convertible even more so but didn't want to spend the extra money for an additional 400 lbs and a chopped-up roof)

- I didn't like the way CF looked with Le Mans Blue.
__________________
11 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT | Premium 2 | Convenience | 19" | EDC | Prem Audio | Moonroof | BMW Apps | Vorshlag Adjustable Camber Plates | StopTech ST-60 380mm BBK | Castrol SRF Fluid | ModMyNav.com rear camera | OEM Euro Sunglasses Holder
jphughan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 02:21 PM   #62
PoorMan
Hello my name is...
 
Drives: 2009 E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Los Angeles

Posts: 539
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by geneatals View Post
it's only a deal breaker if YOU think so...
Agreed!


Who cares what a bunch of strangers think? Do what YOU want!
PoorMan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 03:11 PM   #63
Titanium Silver
Four Star General
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: USA

Posts: 585
iTrader: (0)

I have Sunroof and it's legit. Def not a dealbreaker for me. I couldn't care less one way or the other.
__________________


E92 M3 | Jet Black | All OEM Everything
Titanium Silver is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 03:33 PM   #64
cap_freez
Lead, follow, or get the hell out of my way
 
cap_freez's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 X3, 2013 RS5
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montréal, oh Canada

Posts: 428
iTrader: (0)

I've tried both and honestly choosing one over the other is only a cosmetic issue. Personally i like to have the option of opening the roof on a car of that price. and the sunroof is quieter than the carbon roof at highway speeds, I would choose the sunroof. You will never notice a performance difference.
__________________
2010 X3
2013 RS5
cap_freez is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 04:39 PM   #65
Twinbo
First Lieutenant
 
Twinbo's Avatar
 
Drives: ....
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Calgary

Posts: 357
iTrader: (0)

I think in the used car market you have to give a little to find the best car. If everything else is perfect, then go with the sunroof and get the rest of the roof wrapped (there is an IB e92 on this forum where this was done although he may have switched since he mods monthly).
Twinbo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-22-2011, 04:55 PM   #66
llis
octane chick
 
llis's Avatar
 
Drives: Ms
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado

Posts: 1,133
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2003 BMW M5  [0.00]
2002 BMW 530i (fs)  [0.00]
2013 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Are you going to track your car? That's the only place the CF roof would make a difference.
I agree, but not because of the weight. How much do you weigh? The difference is what, 46 lbs?

But there's a huge difference in terms of helmet room. I'm about 5'9" and my helmet bumps against the sun roof frame. If I had it to do over I'd have looked for carbon fiber.

I also find I use the sun roof less than I did on my previous 3 series sedan. I think with the coupe the wind is less noisy and more comfortable with large side windows down (and sunroof closed for shade). On the sedan, though, loved the sunroof.
__________________

2013 E92 ///M3 ZCP 6MT Speed Yellow 2003 E39 ///M5
llis is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:13 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST