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      08-24-2011, 12:04 PM   #45
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I'm sure they would not admit to this "on the record", but I gotta wonder how many brilliant engineers they have who must be thinking the same thing, especially with the detailed computer models they have today. Rather than just assuming that it would be faster by some unknown amount (like their 1980's predecessors had to), they can probably move the engine forward a foot, then re-run the simulations, and see how many seconds a lap a mid-engined GT3 could shave off the Nurburgring time, so they know for sure exactly what they are missing. I can't believe that some engineer hasn't done that already, even if it was in secret on his own time....
See 959.
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      08-24-2011, 12:11 PM   #46
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See what about the 959? The fact that it was still a rear-engined car with the engines center of mass well behind the rear axle?

The Carrera GT was closer to what I was talking about, but it was a limited edition car. I'm talking about something that could leverage decades of refinement, but still sell in 911 type numbers, at 911 price points. They could make such an epic beast, yet choose not to.
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      08-24-2011, 12:42 PM   #47
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If you want a mid-engined Porsche, buy a Cayman S.

Don't f*** up my Carrera. It's thrilling the way it is, and that's why we paid for it...

...in my humble opinion.
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      08-24-2011, 12:52 PM   #48
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The rear-engine and the resultant weight distribution is undeniably not ideal. If you read my prior posts you will see I am not biased towards the 911 at all (not like others on this forum) but I have to say I never had a car before which is as much fun as the 997.2 GT3 RS. It is SO EASY to rotate, so easy to deal with understeer! The first couple of days on the track were interesting and terrifying in the same time. (I did a few spin) the around day 4 I just somehow "got it" I could not help grinning for the entire day. Never enjoyed a track day more! You have to work for it, more than in the M3 but when it comes together it's worth it!
So I now the inherent flaws of this design, but in real life on the track it is working somehow.
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      08-24-2011, 01:10 PM   #49
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I think rear engine is a handicap if you're talking about rotating the car. It's probably advantageous for acceleration, and weight (less piping and linkages to the drive wheels). Sure, rear engine designs are probably more disadvantageous than they are advantageous, but it all depends.
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      08-24-2011, 01:19 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
See what about the 959? The fact that it was still a rear-engined car with the engines center of mass well behind the rear axle?

The Carrera GT was closer to what I was talking about, but it was a limited edition car. I'm talking about something that could leverage decades of refinement, but still sell in 911 type numbers, at 911 price points. They could make such an epic beast, yet choose not to.
I guess I remembered incorrectly that they'd moved the motor forward in the 959 making it more traditionally mid-engined. Oh well.
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      08-24-2011, 02:42 PM   #51
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Very true indeed! If Porsche built a Cayman GT3 RS, it would beat any car on track by a margin. Why Porsche does not do this is only for the "911". The same about BMW, they do not build any supercar, because then "M3" wil no more be the fastest BMW.
Why is the 911 campared with M3? Because they both have four seats and are sporty. You may say the 911 seat are not usable, but then I will say what for at all to have them? Again, what comes out will be a Cayman, 2 seats, and this car is never compared to an M3. Why does a fast car, supercar, have to cost +200.000 and be of very big size with very big powerfull engine, when the small Cayman with the GT3 (RS) engine would be alot smaller and lighter and thus faster and alot more fun.

For me in car industry there are two victims: Porsche Cayman and BMW Z4. Also the Z4 could a much better car then the M3, but BMW never alowed it.
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      08-24-2011, 03:03 PM   #52
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wait what?

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a groundbreaking new seven-speed manual transmission
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      08-24-2011, 03:25 PM   #53
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wait what?
Welcome to weeks ago lol. See the last picture I posted
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      08-24-2011, 04:13 PM   #54
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If they did that though, no one else would have a chance of winning.

And not only that, they are still the only one is who is still using a 6 cylinder engine while everyone else is using more cylinders and/or more displacement.
Look at the Porsche 917, it absolutely left everyone in racing like they were going in reverse.


That explains why their competitors dont want them to do that, but it doesnt explain why Porsche doesnt do that.

World economy sucks, revenues are going down, companies are doing whatever they can to make money. CEO of Porsche will explain to his board that they didnt build such a 911 because it would have been too much better than the competitors, and thus would start to steal market share away from them ??!? And plus, they dont want to make it too easy on the factory race teams at LeMans and other places, its better that the drivers feel more rewarded from driving a more challenging car, than to fill the shelves with even more trophies ?

Ferrari purists moan that they cant buy a new 458 with 3 pedals on the floor, and Ferrari sez "too bad, this new way is better for both road and track", and every new one is spoken for in advance anyways. Maybe Porsche thinks 911's will just sit on showroom floors if they try and make Isaac Newton proud ??
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      08-24-2011, 04:20 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Very true indeed! If Porsche built a Cayman GT3 RS, it would beat any car on track by a margin. Why Porsche does not do this is only for the "911". The same about BMW, they do not build any supercar, because then "M3" wil no more be the fastest BMW.
Why is the 911 campared with M3? Because they both have four seats and are sporty. You may say the 911 seat are not usable, but then I will say what for at all to have them? Again, what comes out will be a Cayman, 2 seats, and this car is never compared to an M3. Why does a fast car, supercar, have to cost +200.000 and be of very big size with very big powerfull engine, when the small Cayman with the GT3 (RS) engine would be alot smaller and lighter and thus faster and alot more fun.

For me in car industry there are two victims: Porsche Cayman and BMW Z4. Also the Z4 could a much better car then the M3, but BMW never alowed it.
Aston has moved away from the DB9 to its Vantage as its GT3 car. I'd like to see Cayman slowly go upscale and MORE expensive---a 911 alternative at the same price (with all the crazy levels of trims: s, gts, 4, turbo, turbos, gt3, etc...). That way, the "purists" can still have the 911, and those wanting a daily-drivable, mid engined car without having to pay 200+ can have the Cayman Turbo S with 500+ hp.

I mean, Porsche isn't really a "purists" company anymore anyway with their SUVs and wagon/sedan thing. They have my permission to make the 911 mid engined. It's ok by my book; less egregious than coming out with a bunch of SUVs.
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      08-27-2011, 08:14 PM   #56
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      08-29-2011, 04:41 AM   #57
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beautiful.

here's hoping the '09 Carrera market prices drop. I'm looking forward to picking one up in the next couple of months. Hopefully.
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      08-29-2011, 08:06 AM   #58
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      08-29-2011, 11:53 AM   #59
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I think it makes the whole car look very LESS aggressive. Too refined imo.
Too refined..?

I tend to associate refined with more upscale and... shall I say.. exotic?

Yea, I think this one looks just a bit more upscale and exotic than it did before.
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      08-29-2011, 11:57 AM   #60
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I WILL own a 991 P-Car. Couple more years..
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      08-29-2011, 01:37 PM   #61
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i noticed on a lot of cars these days the shoulder lines or the door pannel is getting higher or taller and roofline getting shorter. dont know if thats the new safety standard thing or not but if it is, im sure porsche has to stick to it as well. but this new rear end makes the roofline seem higher and makes the whole car seem wider and low.

dont know if it really is any wider than out going model but def like the new tails.
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      08-29-2011, 01:53 PM   #62
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Rear lights look Aston Martin'ish
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      08-29-2011, 03:15 PM   #63
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Weird, different similar but still nice. Im all messed up right now.
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      08-29-2011, 03:55 PM   #64
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I would have sex with that car....

...as long as it is a female (AND was also born as a female).
+1
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      08-29-2011, 05:50 PM   #65
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Doesn't WOW me like how the 997 does when I first saw it. Still looks good though.
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      08-30-2011, 08:45 AM   #66
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Quote:
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beautiful.

here's hoping the '09 Carrera market prices drop. I'm looking forward to picking one up in the next couple of months. Hopefully.
There are a handful of new 10' models available. I would think 15% + discount easily with some effort.

I agree the 991 has a more "exotic" note to it but the pricing will hold firm for awhile which eliminates myself from seriously looking. Another term which I see in the 991 which I don't in the 997 is "fancy". Not a bad thing.

A GTS six speed would more than quench my Carrera wants.
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