BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Steve Thomas BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-13-2011, 10:48 PM   #1
KKM3
Lieutenant
United_States
12
Rep
504
Posts

 
Drives: E92 m3 + r8 v10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

I am almost convinced that 2011 comp pack m3's are faster than the earlier e92/e90 m's. I had a 08 manual, but now my 2011 zcp dct e92 feels substantially faster. I know dct makes a significant difference, but the engine itself feels more responsive and eager to rev. It just feels more powerful and faster all around. I also notice big improvements in steering feel and overall handling which I can attribute to zcp and 10mm drop. But what about the engine? The engine sounds louder and more powerful... Am I imagining this? What do you guys think?

Ps- please no civic or pizza package replies. Let's hear some mature thoughts/opinions. Thanks.
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2011, 11:11 PM   #2
Midwest X6
Captain
Midwest X6's Avatar
United_States
16
Rep
874
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 X3 28xi
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Great Midwest

iTrader: (4)

I doubt it's substantially faster. But I thought I read somewhere that they did evolve the steering with the competition package

Maybe someone can comment who knows for sure.
__________________
Current Ride: 2013\28xi\Deep Sea Blue\Oyster Nevada Leather\Fineline Sienna Trim\Sport Activity \Cold Weather\Premium\Comfort Access\Navigation\Panoramic Moon Roof\BMW Assist

Previous Rides: E92 M3, E70 X5 35d, E71 X6 50i, E71 X6 35i,E60 550i, E46 M3 Cabriolet, E39 540i, E36 328i
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2011, 11:15 PM   #3
cmk227
Major
cmk227's Avatar
United_States
19
Rep
1,332
Posts

 
Drives: Goal: ED on 2015 M6GC
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Irving, TX & Northern England

iTrader: (2)

I got a 2011 manual comp package. They are the same. It just that you are driving DCT and it shift better/faster than you.

I still like my manual though.
__________________

14 Lexus GX460 & 14 Lexus ES300H
14 BMW 528d Touring Estate - UK
Previous M's: 11 BMW M3 JZB ZCP 6MT, 02 BMW M3 Conv 6MT & 02 BMW M3 Coupe 6MT
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2011, 11:29 PM   #4
PINHEAD
Motorsport Passion!!!
PINHEAD's Avatar
Monaco
14
Rep
978
Posts

 
Drives: E92M3/997.2RS
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (8)

M3 ZCP are much faster than non-ZCP Civic M3s
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2011, 11:36 PM   #5
KKM3
Lieutenant
United_States
12
Rep
504
Posts

 
Drives: E92 m3 + r8 v10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PINHEAD View Post
M3 ZCP are much faster than non-ZCP Civic M3s
U picked the perfect username.
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2011, 11:43 PM   #6
JulieDriving
Female driving enthusiast :P
JulieDriving's Avatar
30
Rep
2,308
Posts

 
Drives: Bimmer
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest X6 View Post
I doubt it's substantially faster. But I thought I read somewhere that they did evolve the steering with the competition package

Maybe someone can comment who knows for sure.
I've never seen steering mentioned as an upgrade with ZCP, but I have heard that they made some minor adjustments to the steering for M3's in general after complaints when it first came out.... I think I remember a couple of reviewers commenting on the (slight) steering difference...
__________________
2013 M3 coupe (Azurite Black, Black, Piano Black)
+ miata nut (2 miatas) + Mk6 GTI 5-door hatch (our mini-SUV )
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2011, 11:49 PM   #7
KKM3
Lieutenant
United_States
12
Rep
504
Posts

 
Drives: E92 m3 + r8 v10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmk227 View Post
I got a 2011 manual comp package. They are the same. It just that you are driving DCT and it shift better/faster than you.

I still like my manual though.
Did you have an earlier e9x m3 before you got your 2011? The engine feels more responsive to throttle input than my 08, especially in sport plus mode. Dct vs 6mt aside. I observe a more eager to rev engine in my 2011. Snappier and more powerful. It feels a great deal faster than my 08, like it's on a whole different level.
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2011, 11:56 PM   #8
BMW Fanatic
Banned
Canada
61
Rep
3,314
Posts

 
Drives: slow
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (11)

Was your 08 brand new or did you pick it up used? Maybe it's just in the mind, you feel much happier having an 11 rather than an 08 now and you think it's faster..

Side-note; I heard ZCP adds an extra 30HP/35TRQ is this true?
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 12:43 AM   #9
FVM3
Major General
FVM3's Avatar
113
Rep
5,739
Posts

 
Drives: e92 m3, f30 328i
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (2)

engine sound should be identical, seems like just because you are feeling the difference between 6mt and dct more then 2008 vs 2011
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 01:39 AM   #10
3XTR3M3
Lieutenant Colonel
3XTR3M3's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
1,579
Posts

 
Drives: E92 AW M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: LA

iTrader: (1)

I recently traded from 2008 to 2011 ZCP... Overall, the car is way more refined. This is expected with any first year production car compared to a few years down the line. My steering does feel better, engine somehow feels a little nicer, the car does in fact "feel" faster but that's because every aspect of it has now been refined as much as possible within the last 4 years of production.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 01:55 AM   #11
Kiemyster
Bimmerpost Resident Marijuana Consultant
Kiemyster's Avatar
Trinidad_and_tobago
83
Rep
3,132
Posts

 
Drives: E90x4 (M3, 335xi, 325xi,320i)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Queens/NYC

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3 View Post
I recently traded from 2008 to 2011 ZCP... Overall, the car is way more refined. This is expected with any first year production car compared to a few years down the line. My steering does feel better, engine somehow feels a little nicer, the car does in fact "feel" faster but that's because every aspect of it has now been refined as much as possible within the last 4 years of production.
I think this is the response OP was looking for. Makes perfect sense, but I will also have to say that most (or at least more than half) of the difference is still probably due to the DCT.

This makes me feel much better for not rushing and buying an 2009 M3 when I had the opportunity.
__________________
"AMG What! S-Line Who? If you ain't got that M I got no respect for you!"
'06 Alpine Weiss E90 320i | '06 The Green Machine E90 325xi | '11 Alpine Weiss E90 M3 ZCP | '10 Silverstone X5M | '11 Alpine Weiss E90 335xi
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 02:07 AM   #12
El_Duderino
Private First Class
2
Rep
137
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E92 M3
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

It is placebo effect which can be pretty convincing as multiple randomized drug trials have shown.

I have driven the '11 ZCP. It does not feel any faster and engine responsiveness is identical. I will say that it does seem somewhat tighter around corners than older models but this is not a hugely significant difference in my opinion.

And, in answer to the hopefully sarcastic post above, the ZCP does not add HP or torque relative to the non-ZCP M3.
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 02:12 AM   #13
Kiemyster
Bimmerpost Resident Marijuana Consultant
Kiemyster's Avatar
Trinidad_and_tobago
83
Rep
3,132
Posts

 
Drives: E90x4 (M3, 335xi, 325xi,320i)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Queens/NYC

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Duderino View Post
And, in answer to the hopefully sarcastic post above, the ZCP does not add HP or torque relative to the non-ZCP M3.
I was going to say it... but I figured someone else would.

I was not sure if serious.
__________________
"AMG What! S-Line Who? If you ain't got that M I got no respect for you!"
'06 Alpine Weiss E90 320i | '06 The Green Machine E90 325xi | '11 Alpine Weiss E90 M3 ZCP | '10 Silverstone X5M | '11 Alpine Weiss E90 335xi
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 05:15 AM   #14
gthal
Brigadier General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
77
Rep
3,460
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
I had the exact same impression going from a 2010 6MT to a 2011 DCT. So, not a 2008 to 2011 comparison but a 2010 to 2011 one but with the same impression.

The issue I think is the DCT. Not only does it make the car faster because of shifting, I have read that the gearing has changed. This could also be a big part of what you are feeling... the DCT gearing does, IMO, make the car feel more torquey and fast and revs more quickly but very likely just because of gearing. So, unlike what others might think, I do NOT believe you are experiencing a placebo effect but simply noticing the faster shifting of the DCT (vs 6MT) and the more aggressive gearing (torque to the wheels).

So, the engine is the same but the transmission makes the car feel very different. I would expect that if you compared a 2008 6MT and 2008 DCT you would have the same/similar impression.

On the handling/ZCP issue, it is hard to say if I notice any real difference... maybe slightly but only very slightly if at all. What you might be feeling is the stiffness of a new suspension versus a 3 year old suspension IMO.

For the "sound" of the engine, I also noticed that it seemed louder. At the first HPDE of the season, my car had a much more distinct intake/exhaust note. One of the flag guys is the head BMW tech for the local dealership. He is convinced that BMW did something to the cars to increase intake/exhaust sound as he has noticed the difference of several M3s. The other M3 guys also commented that my car sounded very different than the other e9x M3s there on the front straight at WOT. I originally thought maybe I had something wrong with the car (maybe a small exhaust leak) but I have now heard others make similar comments on their 2011s so maybe there was a tweak to the sound?
__________________
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 MB C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold

Last edited by gthal; 08-14-2011 at 06:04 AM.
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 05:37 AM   #15
sameh
Major
sameh's Avatar
United_States
28
Rep
1,471
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 DCT JetBlk
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

You're just experiencing the awesomeness of DCT.
__________________
2011 E92 BatMobile JtBlk/Blk/Blk CF
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 05:44 AM   #16
EdM5
Major
EdM5's Avatar
Netherlands
27
Rep
1,417
Posts

 
Drives: F10 M5 CP & E70 X5 Xdrive35d
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Amsterdam

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
You're just experiencing the awesomeness of DCT.
+1
__________________
2004 e87 118d (ret.), 2006 e92 335d (ret.), 2007 e92 330d (ret.), 2007 e87 130i M-sport (ret.), 2009 e92 M3 (ret.), 2010 f10 535d M-sport (ret.)
2009 e70 X5 35d & 2014 f10 M5 CP
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 05:59 AM   #17
schnell325
Bored at work....
schnell325's Avatar
Canada
43
Rep
3,875
Posts

 
Drives: '08 M3,'11 335xi
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BC

iTrader: (5)

After driving a DCT at Spartanburg SC, I know I should have waited the extra 3 months for the DCT back in Feb 2008 when I ordered my car ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
__________________
'08 M3: AA G2L3, Catless X-Pipe & Sig Series Rear. AP rods. TC Kline EDC Coil Overs. MRF Alum Sub Frame Bushings. TMS Delrin Diff'l Bushings. BFI Motor Mounts. Recaro PP. BMW Perf Steering Wheel. P3 Gauge. PS Overflow Kit. APEX ARC-8 18"x9.5"/10.5". Conti Slicks 275/35F 305/30R. Stoptech Pads/SS Lines. Cantrell Brake Ducts.
http://5252motorsports.blogspot.ca/2...3-sleeper.html
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 07:37 AM   #18
armyav8tor
n1smo
armyav8tor's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
1,447
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
You're just experiencing the awesomeness of DCT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinF10 View Post
+1
LOL, +2

My buddy has a 6MT and I can tell you from experience that I pulled away from him pretty easily when he was following me on the track. I had to constantly slow back down on the straights after exiting a corner. Here's a poor example of what I'm talking about because he had 1 adult, 2 kids riding with him:

Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 08:22 AM   #19
ThunderMoose
Captain
14
Rep
971
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 C2S and 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: League City, TX

iTrader: (0)

The ZCP is 10 mm lower, which reduces the drag coefficient by .0001. Since speed is a logarithmic function of drag, your new car is 1000 times faster than your old car.
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 08:26 AM   #20
mdosu
Banned
No_Country
117
Rep
8,517
Posts

 
Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PINHEAD View Post
M3 ZCP are much faster than non-ZCP Civic M3s
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
The ZCP is 10 mm lower, which reduces the drag coefficient by .0001. Since speed is a logarithmic function of drag, your new car is 1000 times faster than your old car.


/Thread
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 08:26 AM   #21
gthal
Brigadier General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
77
Rep
3,460
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
The ZCP is 10 mm lower, which reduces the drag coefficient by .0001. Since speed is a logarithmic function of drag, your new car is 1000 times faster than your old car.
Sarcasm aside, the ZCP maybe has some very small benefit in handling but as many point out, it's the DCT he is noticing in acceleration being stronger.
__________________
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | Black Full Merino Leather | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT - Sold
2012 MB C63 Coupe | Performance package | Obsidian Black - Sold
2011 E92 M3 | Jerez Black | Fox Red | DCT | Competition Package - Sold
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2011, 08:29 AM   #22
ThunderMoose
Captain
14
Rep
971
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 C2S and 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: League City, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Sarcasm aside, the ZCP maybe has some very small benefit in handling but as many point out, it's the DCT he is noticing in acceleration being stronger.
I still think "substantially" is a bit too strong to describe the difference, even if it is a DCT vs MT thing.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:05 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST