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      08-07-2011, 01:12 PM   #1
MDyDinanM
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BMW U.S. layoffs?

a shame, especially in this economy

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      08-07-2011, 01:28 PM   #2
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pretty sad. "support our eight kids" my response... jesus
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      08-07-2011, 02:20 PM   #3
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I hate seeing this happen...

The issues can be complicated and there is typically so many compelling reasonings from both sides...

Hope they can find some sort of win/win here, but I realize that ain't always the case
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      08-07-2011, 02:28 PM   #4
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Unions have abused their powers so much, it's hard not to see the move towards 'union' busting, it's really not against the people it's against entitlement issues that many unions have. Just this morning, it's another union issue with Verizon.

The US, not just the private sector are going to be severing ties with Unions over the next couple of years as they are no longer necessary, rather they cause more harm then help. I've heard horror stories from project managers unable to 'talk' to union members because it wasn't apart of their negotiated contract - while they were on the SAME contract. The government has many laws to protect 'service' employees, and set prevailing wages. Unions, union dues are simply inefficient.

System is broken, there is a LOT more to the story then just BMW flipping a switch and removing good workers, BMW is a lot smarter than that.
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      08-07-2011, 02:30 PM   #5
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It is a shame, but BMW clearly thinks they can't get the same job done for less money. I'm sure no longer having to deal with the teamsters is also a plus in their mind.
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      08-07-2011, 02:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
Unions have abused their powers so much, it's hard not to see the move towards 'union' busting, it's really not against the people it's against entitlement issues that many unions have.
+1

Unions were and are still are (theoretically) a good defence against abusive management, but we've seen a lot of entitlement crap from unions, and the pendulum has swung the other way in recent years.
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      08-07-2011, 02:59 PM   #7
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Some of you REALLY need to educate yourselves.
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      08-07-2011, 03:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
Unions have abused their powers so much, it's hard not to see the move towards 'union' busting, it's really not against the people it's against entitlement issues that many unions have. Just this morning, it's another union issue with Verizon.

The US, not just the private sector are going to be severing ties with Unions over the next couple of years as they are no longer necessary, rather they cause more harm then help. I've heard horror stories from project managers unable to 'talk' to union members because it wasn't apart of their negotiated contract - while they were on the SAME contract. The government has many laws to protect 'service' employees, and set prevailing wages. Unions, union dues are simply inefficient.

System is broken, there is a LOT more to the story then just BMW flipping a switch and removing good workers, BMW is a lot smarter than that.
Spot on
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      08-07-2011, 03:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
.....there is a LOT more to the story then just BMW flipping a switch and removing good workers, BMW is a lot GREEDIER than that.
Is that what you meant?
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      08-07-2011, 03:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
Unions have abused their powers so much, it's hard not to see the move towards 'union' busting, it's really not against the people it's against entitlement issues that many unions have. Just this morning, it's another union issue with Verizon.

System is broken, there is a LOT more to the story then just BMW flipping a switch and removing good workers, BMW is a lot smarter than that.

I bet the Teamsters have been a giant pain the ass to work with and finally BMW has had enough. I work for a large company that was both union and non-union workforces. The unions just make EVERYTHING a giant hassle. The union shop has 27 job categories and we can't move workers between them. In other words, we have to lay-off someone rather than move them into a spot where we have a need for additional workers. In another plant doing roughly the same thing, the work gets done with FOUR worker categories. Need to move a piece of equipment? A worker cross-trained in using the crane just does it. In the union shop? Sit on your ass for 30 mins awaiting the union crane operator to show up. He does nothing else.
I'd bet if this was a non-union shop this wouldn't be happening. BMW has a responsibility to the owners to operate as efficiently as possible.
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      08-07-2011, 03:23 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by FedUpWith335i View Post
Some of you REALLY need to educate yourselves.
elaborate?
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      08-07-2011, 03:29 PM   #12
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Sad. Unions have rules , and usually most of those rules make it really hard for employer, and laying off is nothing unusual.
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      08-07-2011, 03:31 PM   #13
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Admin please move this thread to the appropriate sub-forum.

Thanks.
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      08-07-2011, 03:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdyaman View Post
elaborate?
Why? Most of you have already made up your minds who the enemy is.
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      08-07-2011, 03:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by joseph328 View Post
Sad. Unions have rules , and usually most of those rules make it really hard for employer, and laying off is nothing unusual.
And the reason we have unions is because corporations would rather abuse employees than provide them a living wage if left to their own devices.
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      08-07-2011, 03:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FedUpWith335i View Post
And the reason we have unions is because corporations would rather abuse employees than provide them a living wage if left to their own devices.
The reason you have unions is to extract the maximum benfit from the companies for the workers
Companies try to extract the maximum from their workers.

So overall, you win some, you lose some
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      08-07-2011, 05:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
The reason you have unions is to extract the maximum benfit from the companies for the workers
Companies try to extract the maximum from their workers.

So overall, you win some, you lose some
Someone gets it.
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      08-07-2011, 05:22 PM   #18
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I hate to say it but this country is in for a decline that none of us living, save for the few Great Depression survivors, have ever seen.....
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      08-07-2011, 05:36 PM   #19
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I've worked with a lot of union craft, and for the most part they are very hard working good people. I've also seen the abuses perpetrated upon companies from those unions.

HOWEVER, I've seen nothing from the unions that compares to the abuses corporations heap upon their employees. I bill my time hourly. ... every hour, to a corporation that routinely screws their own employees out of 25% of their time.

The good employees leave because they can do much better on their own. The incompetent, kiss-ass managers that are left do whatever they're instructed to do and are promoted beyond their competence. There is no critical thinking going on, just politics. So you end up with a dysfunctional organization that uses the unions as a scapegoat for their own poor decision making.

Unions aren't the problem, they're the symptom. If we didn't have abusive business practices oppressing the employees, the employees would not have a reason to organize.
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Last edited by Radiation Joe; 08-07-2011 at 05:46 PM.
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      08-07-2011, 06:29 PM   #20
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I hate to say it but this country is in for a decline that none of us living, save for the few Great Depression survivors, have ever seen.....
Best to invoke panic then...

Let me guess you pulled all your money out of the stock market last week despite solid financials from most US equities?

The issue is one of confidence and misinformation. Our dipshit president certainly isn't helping matters and neither is the euro zone. Although it sounds like Italy is going to step up and do the right thing. That affected a huge swing on Friday. We'll see what happens Monday now that s&p has downgraded the US credit rating.
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      08-07-2011, 07:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Our dipshit president certainly isn't helping matters.....
Let's not forget our dipshit Speaker, and our dipshit teabaggers.
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      08-07-2011, 07:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FedUpWith335i View Post
Let's not forget our dipshit Speaker, and our dipshit teabaggers.
Let's be realistic, the entire congress shares the blame...
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