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      08-03-2011, 02:36 PM   #1
F82_SID
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M3 vs 2011 Corvette Grand Sport

Ok I have seen Z06 comparisons but not GS comparisons. The reason I bring this up is that I just ran against one of these from 0-60 and I beat him by half a car lenght. I dont know if he missed a gear or what but I think he should have taken me pretty easily.

I looked up the specs and they are all fairly similar (except for 130 more lbs or torque the Vette has )

After the race I stopped and talked to the guy for a bit. The price of his car was 74 and mine was 75, he had 436 hp and I have 412, he weighs 3300 and I weigh 3700. On paper, he should have killed me right? What do you guys think?

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
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      08-03-2011, 02:39 PM   #2
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Maybe you should have done a couple of runs in the event he missed something during the 1st race?
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      08-03-2011, 05:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92_SID View Post
Ok I have seen Z06 comparisons but not GS comparisons. The reason I bring this up is that I just ran against one of these from 0-60 and I beat him by half a car lenght. I dont know if he missed a gear or what but I think he should have taken me pretty easily...
One can't predict a trend from a single experience, but in my estimation, the M3 is an overachiever.

In a stoplight drag, I'd give the 0-60 edge (in distance) to the M3, largely because of gearing, with a minor advantage in traction due to the runflats on the Vette, which have yet to be upgraded to the more sticky versions such as found on the Z06 (optionally) and the ZR1.

I would predict this with a standard six-speed in the M, but would believe the auto would be even better at this speed and distance.

At the quarter mile point, it's still awfully close (at least with the auto in the M), but the Vette will typically be trapping in the 115-117 mph range, meaning it will just be walking the M3 at that point.

In short:

0 - 60 - probable win for the M
quarter mile - close, but probably a Vette win
running from a roll out on the road - almost certainly the Vette will prevail, unless he's at an awkward gearstep. Same for you, of course. If you're at an awkward gearstep, you'll get killed.

All in all, a hell of a performance for the bimmer given the weight to power discrepancy.

You didn't mention your transmission, but I assume a six-speed?

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      08-03-2011, 08:38 PM   #4
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I own a 2011 Grand Sport and will tell you that 0-60, probably a toss up. The GS wins the 1/4 by a smidge. A road course should be an edge to the GS as well...the edge will be smaller on a smaller track and a bit more on a larger track.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso..._sport_c6.html

Having said that, I think the E92 M3 is a better overall car. We are talking about a purpose built sports car vs a GT car... and the M3 is that damn close to the performance of a true sportscar. Speaks volumes.

The Grand Sport is surprisingly comfortable, with great handling and some pretty damn nice stock brakes... exhaust note (with the optional sport exhaust) is fantastic. It just feels like it is lumbering in first gear though. Hit second, third and forth and "hold on". The shifter is fantastic in the C6 and the clutch pedal is effortless.

I think the M3 has much better steering feel and response from the tires to the steering, I find the DCT fantastic (manual throws in the 6MT are a bit dissapointing in the M). Handling comes up just a wee bit short to me compared to the GS...but pretty damn impressive for a car that weighs 400 +/- lbs more.

Interior is all BMW by a mile.

Don't sell the M short just because of the perceived low end torque. The car is putting a damn good amount of the torque to the wheels better than most think.

I change cars pretty damn quickly and the M3 is at the top of the list (along with the GTR) for me come early 2012. This is coming from a guy that has now owned two C6 Vettes and a C6Z06 Vette.
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      08-03-2011, 09:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
I own a 2011 Grand Sport and will tell you that 0-60, probably a toss up. The GS wins the 1/4 by a smidge. A road course should be an edge to the GS as well...the edge will be smaller on a smaller track and a bit more on a larger track.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso..._sport_c6.html

Having said that, I think the E92 M3 is a better overall car. We are talking about a purpose built sports car vs a GT car... and the M3 is that damn close to the performance of a true sportscar. Speaks volumes.

The Grand Sport is surprisingly comfortable, with great handling and some pretty damn nice stock brakes... exhaust note (with the optional sport exhaust) is fantastic. It just feels like it is lumbering in first gear though. Hit second, third and forth and "hold on". The shifter is fantastic in the C6 and the clutch pedal is effortless.

I think the M3 has much better steering feel and response from the tires to the steering, I find the DCT fantastic (manual throws in the 6MT are a bit dissapointing in the M). Handling comes up just a wee bit short to me compared to the GS...but pretty damn impressive for a car that weighs 400 +/- lbs more.

Interior is all BMW by a mile.

Don't sell the M short just because of the perceived low end torque. The car is putting a damn good amount of the torque to the wheels better than most think.

I change cars pretty damn quickly and the M3 is at the top of the list (along with the GTR) for me come early 2012. This is coming from a guy that has now owned two C6 Vettes and a C6Z06 Vette.
Excellent reply!
It's nice to hear feedback from an owner who has an appreciation for cars and doesn't slam one over the other (bias)..
I plan on looking for an E92 M3 next year as well.
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      08-03-2011, 09:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari4evr1 View Post
Excellent reply!
It's nice to hear feedback from an owner who has an appreciation for cars and doesn't slam one over the other (bias)..
I plan on looking for an E92 M3 next year as well.
Thanks man. That's exactly who I am --- very appreciative of all cool cars.

Good luck with picking up the M next year

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      08-03-2011, 09:54 PM   #7
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funny i ran into this thread. i never really liked american cars to much, but after driving my boys Z06 today that changed all that. damn that vette is scary fast. all i can say is RESPECT
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      08-04-2011, 02:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
I own a 2011 Grand Sport and will tell you that 0-60, probably a toss up. The GS wins the 1/4 by a smidge. A road course should be an edge to the GS as well...the edge will be smaller on a smaller track and a bit more on a larger track.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso..._sport_c6.html

Having said that, I think the E92 M3 is a better overall car. We are talking about a purpose built sports car vs a GT car... and the M3 is that damn close to the performance of a true sportscar. Speaks volumes.

The Grand Sport is surprisingly comfortable, with great handling and some pretty damn nice stock brakes... exhaust note (with the optional sport exhaust) is fantastic. It just feels like it is lumbering in first gear though. Hit second, third and forth and "hold on". The shifter is fantastic in the C6 and the clutch pedal is effortless.

I think the M3 has much better steering feel and response from the tires to the steering, I find the DCT fantastic (manual throws in the 6MT are a bit dissapointing in the M). Handling comes up just a wee bit short to me compared to the GS...but pretty damn impressive for a car that weighs 400 +/- lbs more.

Interior is all BMW by a mile.

Don't sell the M short just because of the perceived low end torque. The car is putting a damn good amount of the torque to the wheels better than most think.

I change cars pretty damn quickly and the M3 is at the top of the list (along with the GTR) for me come early 2012. This is coming from a guy that has now owned two C6 Vettes and a C6Z06 Vette.
What an objective review alms. To be honest, when I read the OP's first post I was kind of surprised. I thought the Vette would be at least 1/2 to a full car length ahead of the M3 by 60. Do you think a GS auto would be any quicker than the stick? I haven't seen the times recently on the GS stick and auto. Just curious on your thoughts as an owner.

I also agree that that the M3 puts its power to the ground (flat torque curve) better than many think. And this has been discussed at length in other threads. Beyond the discussion though, my recent test drive confirmed your observation. I must admit that I have been on two test drives of the the M3. The first time, the CA got on the car a fair amount but nothing that had me overly impressed. When I drove the car just after him, I kind of took it an easy on the car out of respect for him and the future owner of the car. Flash forward a few months and my wife and I go in to drive an M3 sedan. Totally different drive with a CA who was not gun shy with the car. He demoed it to us in the most aggressive modes of shifting (it was a DCT), throttle response, etc. Although I was in the back seat, I was like damn, I don't remember this car having this much get up and go. I knew it handled well but was unaware of just what that V8 was capable of. A week later, we were fortunate enough to order an E90 Sedan.

I am curious to have a friendly race with a friend who has a GS automatic just for kicks. I think the DCT is sweet and helps with the car's weight disadvantage but we'll see. I think the GS is a great car and wish you luck with your next purchase. Again, thanks for the unbiased opinion! If you're considering a GTR, let me know. I have a '12 Black Edition coming in about 3 weeks and I'll try to be as objective as you about my likes and dislikes of the car. In the meantime, enjoy your car.
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      08-04-2011, 07:01 AM   #9
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He missed a shift or is a terrible driver. While the DCT gives you the upper hand in shifting, and the BMW is a lot easier car to get all the power to the ground, stock vs stock, same driver in both car, the Grand Sport should win at 0-60 and certainly at the quarter mile.

It's a simple function of power and weight. If you beat him, however, that's all that matters.
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      08-04-2011, 09:27 AM   #10
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^i love how everyone brought real life experience to the situation and then numbers guy here tells everyone their wrong.

curious though, was he convertible? for 74k he could be in a z06...
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      08-04-2011, 10:00 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muskamatt View Post
^i love how everyone brought real life experience to the situation and then numbers guy here tells everyone their wrong.

curious though, was he convertible? for 74k he could be in a z06...
I have to believe the car has to be a vert. Mine stickered for $67k (paid $57K) and it is loaded with 4LT (leather dash and door panels), NAV, Sport exhaust, Comp Gray wheels, etc. Has everything but Magnetic ride.
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      08-04-2011, 11:50 AM   #12
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Nice review alms211. Impressive list of past rides. Would you mind commenting on each? I'd like to see how you'd rank them top to bottom.
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      08-04-2011, 03:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muskamatt View Post
^i love how everyone brought real life experience to the situation and then numbers guy here tells everyone their wrong.

curious though, was he convertible? for 74k he could be in a z06...
I guarantee you that I have spent more time in an E9x M3 and a Grand Sport than anyone else in this forum - I can assure you I am not a "numbers guy". A 0-60 race is going to be determined quite a bit by driver skill - I would say this race is due to the original poster's skill just as much the engine.
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      08-04-2011, 04:04 PM   #14
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I guarantee you that I have spent more time in an E9x M3 and a Grand Sport than anyone else in this forum
Sorry didn't mean to start anything but could you please provide some background to this statement? Thanks.
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      08-04-2011, 04:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
I have to believe the car has to be a vert. Mine stickered for $67k (paid $57K) and it is loaded with 4LT (leather dash and door panels), NAV, Sport exhaust, Comp Gray wheels, etc. Has everything but Magnetic ride.
Agreed. Which I also feel lead to the race results. Usually when I think of vettes and performance, a coupe almost always comes to mind.
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      08-05-2011, 11:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muskamatt View Post
^i love how everyone brought real life experience to the situation and then numbers guy here tells everyone their wrong.

curious though, was he convertible? for 74k he could be in a z06...
Yes it was a convertible.
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      08-05-2011, 02:17 PM   #17
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Took my friends GS (stock,6spd) out for a drive one night and ran into another friend with a ISF (intake,exhaust).
The GS could not get away from that ISF. If I would have misted a shift he would have hit me in the rear. When I get my '12 M3 it's going to get mods that same day or I will never hear the end of it if he out runs my M.
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      08-05-2011, 02:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92_SID View Post
Ok I have seen Z06 comparisons but not GS comparisons. The reason I bring this up is that I just ran against one of these from 0-60 and I beat him by half a car lenght. I dont know if he missed a gear or what but I think he should have taken me pretty easily.

I looked up the specs and they are all fairly similar (except for 130 more lbs or torque the Vette has )

After the race I stopped and talked to the guy for a bit. The price of his car was 74 and mine was 75, he had 436 hp and I have 412, he weighs 3300 and I weigh 3700. On paper, he should have killed me right? What do you guys think?

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
vette is a great american car and i say that despite having the worst year ever produced, the 1984 vette. i still think they are 2 different cars with of course my preference going to the M3 and especially the M3 sedan. seats 5 and will destroy most 5 seaters out there.
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      08-06-2011, 08:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefBringer View Post
He missed a shift or is a terrible driver. While the DCT gives you the upper hand in shifting, and the BMW is a lot easier car to get all the power to the ground, stock vs stock, same driver in both car, the Grand Sport should win at 0-60 and certainly at the quarter mile.

It's a simple function of power and weight. If you beat him, however, that's all that matters.
the vette is not the easiest to launch. I personally never had much success with the launch control either.
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      08-07-2011, 12:42 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari4evr1 View Post
Excellent reply!
It's nice to hear feedback from an owner who has an appreciation for cars and doesn't slam one over the other (bias)..
I plan on looking for an E92 M3 next year as well.
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      08-09-2011, 09:39 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
I own a 2011 Grand Sport and will tell you that 0-60, probably a toss up. The GS wins the 1/4 by a smidge. A road course should be an edge to the GS as well...the edge will be smaller on a smaller track and a bit more on a larger track.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso..._sport_c6.html

Having said that, I think the E92 M3 is a better overall car. We are talking about a purpose built sports car vs a GT car... and the M3 is that damn close to the performance of a true sportscar. Speaks volumes.

The Grand Sport is surprisingly comfortable, with great handling and some pretty damn nice stock brakes... exhaust note (with the optional sport exhaust) is fantastic. It just feels like it is lumbering in first gear though. Hit second, third and forth and "hold on". The shifter is fantastic in the C6 and the clutch pedal is effortless.

I think the M3 has much better steering feel and response from the tires to the steering, I find the DCT fantastic (manual throws in the 6MT are a bit dissapointing in the M). Handling comes up just a wee bit short to me compared to the GS...but pretty damn impressive for a car that weighs 400 +/- lbs more.

Interior is all BMW by a mile.

Don't sell the M short just because of the perceived low end torque. The car is putting a damn good amount of the torque to the wheels better than most think.

I change cars pretty damn quickly and the M3 is at the top of the list (along with the GTR) for me come early 2012. This is coming from a guy that has now owned two C6 Vettes and a C6Z06 Vette.
Nice synopsis. Very objective. You obviously appreciate the finer features, regardless of badging. Thanks for the feedback. Good read.
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      08-09-2011, 10:46 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ColoCane View Post
Nice synopsis. Very objective. You obviously appreciate the finer features, regardless of badging. Thanks for the feedback. Good read.
Thank you. I do try to be as objective as I can. I knew what I was getting with the GS --- both the pluses and minuses. It has been a very enjoyable car for the four months that I have owned it. If history is any indication of the future, I know I will most likely be in something different next year. While it is nice to have a weekend/fun car it is also nice to have a DD that's as wonderful as the likes of an M3.
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