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      08-01-2011, 11:08 PM   #1
BimmerRob08
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Light vibration in steering wheel at 83 ~ 91 mph - spacers?

Question Fella's,

About 6,000 miles ago I installed APracing discs/calipers. I have the stock 18" wheels and there for had to install 12mm spacers front/back.

From that day on, I've had a light "wobbling" type vibration in the steering wheel. Kinda like a slight inbalanced wheel. The frequency vibration starts about 83mph or so becomes closer as I increase speed and dissapears past about 93ish mph. When applying brakes at any speed below 80mph, braking is smooth and i do not believe from m experiance with other brakes in the past that the discs are warped. I have not tracked the car since I installed the BBK.

Application of the brakes (hard braking or medium braking) at 80mph or higher causes the vibration in the steering wheel to incease in strength.

I had new tires installed about 3 weeks ago and the wobble is about the same as it's allways been from day one of the BBK install.

I made sure all rust, debri was cleaned off with a air-power tool/wire brush to ensure a clean face-to-face with the disc hub and spacers/wheels.

I am thinking of getting VMR 18" wheels that will clear the calipers. But I want to hear what you all think first. Thanks,

RB
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      08-02-2011, 06:21 AM   #2
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Why not remove the spacers and see if your issues continue?
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      08-02-2011, 08:28 AM   #3
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Quote:
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Why not remove the spacers and see if your issues continue?
+1. This seems like the easiest thing to try. Personally, I would remove only the front spacers and see if that cures the problem (it should since it is a steering wheel vibration). If the vibration is still there then remove the back ones and see what happens.
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      08-02-2011, 11:01 AM   #4
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He can't remove the spacers since he needs them for his wheels to clear the brakes.

OP, I would suggest checking the wheels for imbalance/bends. The spacers might have exaggerated a problem that couldn't be felt before. Probably just a minor imbalance in the wheels. Get then Road Force balanced.
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      08-02-2011, 11:03 AM   #5
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I think he was saying that the spacers were needed to clear the brakes.

If taking spacers off is not an options, one might try different spacers and see if that changes anything. If the spacers are not hubcentric, they might not be centering perfectly and hypothetically that could give vibration.

The M3 is very sensitive when it comes to vibration, and you may find that there is just no way to escape it with the current setup.
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      08-02-2011, 11:14 AM   #6
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Did you clean the hubs and wheels well with a wire brush or steel wool before putting the spacers on? It took me quite a while to get my wheels and hubs prepped for my spacers. No vibration at all here.
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      08-02-2011, 11:23 AM   #7
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Thanks all for inpusts,

I can NOT take off the spacers, as the wheels will not clear the calipers. Only option is wider spacers or new wheels.

I cleaned the hub face (which were brand new APracing BBK discs), Wheel hub face and spacers are new. Cleaned with airpower tool and wire brush.

Spacers are Hub-centric, perfect fit and were brand new. I checked them for any warpage before I installed them.

Basically no matter how clean I have the surface, exact torque on all wheel bolts, perfect fitting hub/disc/spacer. I still have this very light vibration.

I could try getting the front wheels rebalanced. Only other option.
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      08-02-2011, 12:01 PM   #8
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Seems like that's all there is left to check...balance of the wheels.
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      08-02-2011, 12:09 PM   #9
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What brand are your spacers? This can explain alot.
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      08-02-2011, 10:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
What brand are your spacers? This can explain alot.
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      08-02-2011, 11:12 PM   #11
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I can't remember exactly. I know their not MS or H&R. Got them with the BBK from Alexshop, they are of the highest grade and quality, I know that. I've talked to my BBK dealer about all this and sounds like it could be a "high & low" spot from the tire & wheel. Probebly would need another balance but from a high-end or racing type balancer. Any suggestions?
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      08-02-2011, 11:46 PM   #12
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This doesn't really apply if it really started the day that you installed the brakes/spacers - but - My car had the 82mph shake with everything completely stock. I had new tires installed on my 220M's and balanced on a hunter road force machine and the shake is gone.
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      08-03-2011, 01:53 AM   #13
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You can first try by rebalancing the wheels, try to find a place where they have hunter road force balancer. You can find them in here, http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findgsp9700.cfm
Bmw in general are very2 sensitive when it comes to wheel balance. Slightly off and you can feel it.

Spacers that are not machined to a high tolerance can cause wheel vibration. We've seen this happened before. When you have your wheels off, take off the spacer, attach it to the wheels and move it up and down.If there's any movement there that could be your problem.

We carry a spacer system from Verstrasse, which is cnc milled not lathe to a very high tolerance. They are also very light. Pm me for more info. You can check them out at verstrasse.com

Hope this help

D

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      08-03-2011, 10:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerRob08 View Post
I can't remember exactly. I know their not MS or H&R. Got them with the BBK from Alexshop, they are of the highest grade and quality, I know that. I've talked to my BBK dealer about all this and sounds like it could be a "high & low" spot from the tire & wheel. Probebly would need another balance but from a high-end or racing type balancer. Any suggestions?
H&R spacers are actually the best spacers you can buy as far as quality goes. They are the most stout and always on point. Yes there are a lot of good brands and products out there in regards to spacers, but H&R still gets my vote. Many of my customers just don't like them because they want the black bolts, not silver.

You don't necessarily need the Hunter road force balancer. Any balancer can do the job as long as the person doing it does it with care on where he places the weights. Even super expensive shops that charge upwards of 275 to mount and balance tires here in So-Cal are terrible at balancing tires.
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      08-03-2011, 05:58 PM   #15
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Thanks all,

I'm sure the spacers I have are just as good (I hope) as H&R or other top brands. I wish I could remember the brand. If I remember correctly, when I fitted them (twice) they fit flush and hub-centric with zero wobbling or tolerance for any movement. A very snugg and direct fit. I think it's got to be just poor balancing. Not that it's like a very bad shake, as I mentioned in the OP. But just a slight shake at speed. Will have to try the balance first.

Thanks,

Rb
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      08-03-2011, 07:21 PM   #16
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If you noticed this after the brake installation, with no other change, why do you suspect a wheel balance issue? I would be more suspect of a front rotor problem. You might also try switching the spacers front to back, and see if you notice any change in the vibration.
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      08-03-2011, 08:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerRob08 View Post
Thanks all,

I'm sure the spacers I have are just as good (I hope) as H&R or other top brands. I wish I could remember the brand. If I remember correctly, when I fitted them (twice) they fit flush and hub-centric with zero wobbling or tolerance for any movement. A very snugg and direct fit. I think it's got to be just poor balancing. Not that it's like a very bad shake, as I mentioned in the OP. But just a slight shake at speed. Will have to try the balance first.

Thanks,

Rb
Its not always the wobbling of the spacer or the run-out that tends to be the problem.

Most spacers are not heat treated and are simply machined from a piece of aluminum round stock. Considering the fact that they are mated to the very hot surface of the rotor hub, they get very very hot and they expand unevenly in some cases. I have seen wheel bolts fallen out because of this phenomenon no matter how many times the bolts were replaced and retorqued.
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      08-03-2011, 11:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post

You don't necessarily need the Hunter road force balancer. Any balancer can do the job as long as the person doing it does it with care on where he places the weights. Even super expensive shops that charge upwards of 275 to mount and balance tires here in So-Cal are terrible at balancing tires.
Not sure what you mean by 'any balancer' - if you don't do a road-force balance you WILL get a shimmy around 70-80 mph.
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      08-03-2011, 11:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
Its not always the wobbling of the spacer or the run-out that tends to be the problem.

Most spacers are not heat treated and are simply machined from a piece of aluminum round stock. Considering the fact that they are mated to the very hot surface of the rotor hub, they get very very hot and they expand unevenly in some cases. I have seen wheel bolts fallen out because of this phenomenon no matter how many times the bolts were replaced and retorqued.
+1 very good point.
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      08-03-2011, 11:50 PM   #20
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I'm experiencing the same problems with my BBS FI. Before we start talking about what brand, I've actually tried Turner, MS, and now H&R. The vibration happens both on my Pirelli Corsa System, as well as my new set of AD08(which are professionally balanced on Hunter Road Force). I've taken the spacers off previously and the vibration was completely gone. This is no longer possible, I need it to clear my suspension. One thing I do notice is that after driving for a certain amount of time, the vibration gets becomes less noticeable.

Edit: I should add everything has been cleaned thoroughly and anti-seize was applied after.
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      08-04-2011, 08:39 AM   #21
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Just make sure the anti-seize is only applied to the very center of the hub (the part that rusts and protrudes past the rotor hat); it should not be applied to the face of the wheel or the rotor hat. At least TMS specifically advises against this and it makes sense to me.
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      08-04-2011, 10:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzbm3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post

You don't necessarily need the Hunter road force balancer. Any balancer can do the job as long as the person doing it does it with care on where he places the weights. Even super expensive shops that charge upwards of 275 to mount and balance tires here in So-Cal are terrible at balancing tires.
Not sure what you mean by 'any balancer' - if you don't do a road-force balance you WILL get a shimmy around 70-80 mph.
Meaning any good tire balancer. It does not have to be hunter road force. We have seen more complaints out of road force balanced wheels and tires more than any other machine.
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