BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
OneEighty
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-28-2011, 02:25 PM   #1
w00tw00t
Lieutenant Colonel
w00tw00t's Avatar
United_States
37
Rep
1,733
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 AY M4
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Issaquah, WA

iTrader: (11)

Did BMW Lie??

so most stock M3 dyno's I've seen have it at ~320hp at the wheel.. compensating for drive train losses that comes to about 370hp at the crank... so where the hell did the 414hp figure come from?
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 02:29 PM   #2
Seattle S65B40
Major
Seattle S65B40's Avatar
United_States
60
Rep
1,396
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 e92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: PNW

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
Good question. Subscribed. I doubt it's that far off from 414 but curious to see what the gearheads say.
__________________

Club 6MT
2008 E92 M3 6MT, AW/Blk Ext., brushed aluminum
2006 E46 M3 ZCP 6MT Carbon blk/blk(sold)
2001 E46 325Xi 5MT Jet Blk/Blk (sold)
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 02:35 PM   #3
Bosna
Picking fights with sharks
Bosna's Avatar
2
Rep
133
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Most of the stock Dynos I've seen read ~350. I've seen maybe one ~320, but I think it was an anomaly.
__________________
2011.5 M3 Coupe DCT
2007 Lotus Exige S 6MT
2005 545i 6MT

Fast is subjective.
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 02:39 PM   #4
Mr. ///M3 RD
Major General
Mr. ///M3 RD's Avatar
Canada
147
Rep
7,863
Posts

 
Drives: E350 & 280 SL on Weekends :)
Join Date: May 2010
Location: GTA, Ontario - Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by w00tw00t View Post
so most stock M3 dyno's I've seen have it at ~320hp at the wheel.. compensating for drive train losses that comes to about 370hp at the crank... so where the hell did the 414hp figure come from?
I guess you are right .....

Here is one such test result

Still a lot of horses for us to tame
__________________
Cheers, Rolf-Dieter

Life will take us to some interesting places, fortunately The ///M3 will too with a many of us know this very well
---> Click here for some good stuff I found
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 02:42 PM   #5
FVM3
Major General
FVM3's Avatar
115
Rep
5,739
Posts

 
Drives: e92 m3, f30 328i
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (2)

stock m3 dyno hp is much less then what i expected
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 02:59 PM   #6
ES_TRADER
Colonel
68
Rep
2,699
Posts

 
Drives: 328i, 335i, M3, 535i, X5, 36M
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OC

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2012 328i E92  [5.00]
2013 X5  [0.00]
2013 335i F30  [4.00]
1990 Toyota Previa  [0.00]
1997 E36 M3  [5.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
2011 535i  [0.00]
its actually 420..NOt 414...so yea, they lied??
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 03:04 PM   #7
Erhan
Colonel
Erhan's Avatar
United_States
37
Rep
2,466
Posts

 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by richpuer View Post
its actually 420..NOt 414...so yea, they lied??
420bhp=414hp
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 03:10 PM   #8
zamm3k
Bla!
zamm3k's Avatar
United_States
18
Rep
831
Posts

 
Drives: JB E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (4)

What dyno's are you talking about? Mustang? Dynapack? Dynojet? all numbers fluctuate depending on dynos and dyno operators. But if it helps you compare, Lexus IS-F and C63 AMG have similar numbers, the M3 takes the IS-F and the C63 takes the M3, so you do know they're around the claimed numbers.

With that being said, I have seen a lot of stock dynos around 350's, including my car which dyno'ed around 345 on a mustang.
__________________
:.-. KW .-. RPi .-. SUPERSPRINT .-. MACHT SCHNELL .-. VOSSEN .-. VREDESTEIN .-.:

Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 03:13 PM   #9
Mr. ///M3 RD
Major General
Mr. ///M3 RD's Avatar
Canada
147
Rep
7,863
Posts

 
Drives: E350 & 280 SL on Weekends :)
Join Date: May 2010
Location: GTA, Ontario - Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
420bhp=414hp
small correction ...

420 PS = 414 HP

PS in German is Pferde Stärke

Pferde Stärke = Horse Power

slight difference in the formula to calculate the HP
__________________
Cheers, Rolf-Dieter

Life will take us to some interesting places, fortunately The ///M3 will too with a many of us know this very well
---> Click here for some good stuff I found
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 04:10 PM   #10
Erhan
Colonel
Erhan's Avatar
United_States
37
Rep
2,466
Posts

 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter View Post
small correction ...

420 PS = 414 HP

PS in German is Pferde Stärke

Pferde Stärke = Horse Power

slight difference in the formula to calculate the HP
Thanks
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 04:48 PM   #11
-=Hot|Ice=-
Been There, Done That.
-=Hot|Ice=-'s Avatar
United_States
184
Rep
4,727
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Yeah, The M3 dyno's at 340+ to the rear wheel depending on what dyno you use. We had a thread about this a little while ago, and I wanted to repeat what I said in that thread,

Am I the only one who thinks 330 to the rear wheels is anemic compared to the other cars in it's class? I mean, I question the 4.0 0-60 time now.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 05:16 PM   #12
Twinbo
First Lieutenant
Twinbo's Avatar
3
Rep
360
Posts

 
Drives: ....
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

Lots of questions remain for me here:

1. Elevation where Dyno was performed?
2. What kind of dyno (types already mentioned above)?
3. Skill of technician performing the run (is his software up to date etc)

I had a blown mustang previous to my e92 being shipped and in Calgary, AB (4800 ft above sea level) it put out 387whp at 7psi. Similar kits in say, New York, were putting out well over 425whp on a Mustang dyno.

Just some food for thought.
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 06:17 PM   #13
Radiation Joe
Veni Vidi Vici
Radiation Joe's Avatar
United_States
37
Rep
2,749
Posts

 
Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macungie PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 e90 M3-Sold  [4.25]
2003 RS6 - Sold  [0.00]
2009 e90 M3 - Gone  [0.00]
2003 M3 SOLD  [0.00]
old 2002  [5.00]
I assume you all test drove your cars before your bought them.
You weren't savvy enough to determine your cars were underpowered until you read on the internet that dyno numbers from Joe Schmoes Dyno Shop and convenience store say the car isn't fast enough?????
__________________

Dinan compliment of stuff plus PF rotors and RG63s. Enough for now.
Why, yes. I am an abrasive bastard.
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 06:47 PM   #14
Z K
Colonel
Z K's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
2,174
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3, MK6 GLI
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamm3k View Post
What dyno's are you talking about? Mustang? Dynapack? Dynojet? all numbers fluctuate depending on dynos and dyno operators. But if it helps you compare, Lexus IS-F and C63 AMG have similar numbers, the M3 takes the IS-F and the C63 takes the M3, so you do know they're around the claimed numbers.
+1

No two dynos will put out the same numbers. A dyno is a tuning tool, you use it to tune the car. Unless it's the exact same dyno, you can't compare numbers between them.
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 06:49 PM   #15
-=Hot|Ice=-
Been There, Done That.
-=Hot|Ice=-'s Avatar
United_States
184
Rep
4,727
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
I assume you all test drove your cars before your bought them.
You weren't savvy enough to determine your cars were underpowered until you read on the internet that dyno numbers from Joe Schmoes Dyno Shop and convenience store say the car isn't fast enough?????
No one is saying it's not fast enough. 330 to the rear wheels just sounds anemic. That's why a 335i can take the M3 in a straight line with a tune. Not a huge difference in power. For the street, it's plenty with a couple extra.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 07:55 PM   #16
klammer
Brigadier General
41
Rep
3,245
Posts

 
Drives: 11 spc gry m3 e90, 07 X5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
I assume you all test drove your cars before your bought them.
You weren't savvy enough to determine your cars were underpowered until you read on the internet that dyno numbers from Joe Schmoes Dyno Shop and convenience store say the car isn't fast enough?????
Agree completely. It's never a problem when you're behind the wheel, mostly the keyboard. Don't see too many "got smoked at the track/ on the street" threads. At this level it's more driver than car and if your talking straight line you bought the wrong car... IMHO
__________________
mods: akra evo, dinan 3.45 diff, ess akra tune, dinan stg.3, Alcon bbk, HRE P40
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 08:11 PM   #17
PhillyNate
ENTHUSIAST
PhillyNate's Avatar
United_States
25
Rep
2,038
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 Toyota GT-86
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
Agree completely. It's never a problem when you're behind the wheel, mostly the keyboard. Don't see too many "got smoked at the track/ on the street" threads. At this level it's more driver than car and if your talking straight line you bought the wrong car... IMHO
I'm with you guys. I'm coming from a manual E92 328i. That car was great but this one is that much better. Not even close. The dyno/HP numbers don't tell the whole story.
__________________

"what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson
2014 Whiteout Toyota GT-86 6mt(Presently enjoying WAY more than anticipated)
2011 Alpine White BMW M3 6mt ZCP Coupe(forced retirement 06/06/14)
2008 Alpine White BMW 328i 6mt Coupe(retired 06/21/11
)
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 08:48 PM   #18
rye m3
Lieutenant
rye m3's Avatar
Switzerland
10
Rep
489
Posts

 
Drives: 2011.75 E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
mean, I question the 4.0 0-60 time now.
I don't get that comment. How do you question the measured performance? Who cares about the HP numbers, if the performance is there? HP numbers can vary depending upon the dyno. Performance times can vary as well, but at least they really speak about something.
__________________
E92 M3 MR on Red/Black ZCP Sound
Carbon

2007 997S - sold
2003 E46 M3 Steel Grey on Red- sold
1997 E36 M3 Arctic Silver on Black- sold
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2011, 09:39 PM   #19
LarThaL
Colonel
LarThaL's Avatar
65
Rep
2,634
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West Springfield, MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
No one is saying it's not fast enough. 330 to the rear wheels just sounds anemic. That's why a 335i can take the M3 in a straight line with a tune. Not a huge difference in power. For the street, it's plenty with a couple extra.
A tuned 335 can take an M3 due to the huge swell of midrange torque. You are looking at almost 100 lb-ft more torque in a tuned 335 motor than a stock M3 motor. That's just the advantage of turbos. You want big torque...you need turbos or big displacement.

As far as power goes, the M3 motor is a very highly tuned specimen. It will produce 414 hp given the right fuel, air temps, and humidity. Give it poor fuel, higher air temps and higher humidity and the power falls off.

I went through all this same stuff when I had my Audi RS4 too. For that car to produce it's rated 420 crank hp, it needed air temps of 60 degrees, low humidity and 96 octane fuel. I'm not saying this is what the M3 requires, but I am willing to bet that it is not making 414hp on 91 octane fuel or in 100 degree heat.
__________________
Precision tool: 2011 BMW ///M3
Sledgehammer: 2014 Audi S6

Appreciate 0
      07-29-2011, 03:31 AM   #20
-=Hot|Ice=-
Been There, Done That.
-=Hot|Ice=-'s Avatar
United_States
184
Rep
4,727
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
A tuned 335 can take an M3 due to the huge swell of midrange torque. You are looking at almost 100 lb-ft more torque in a tuned 335 motor than a stock M3 motor. That's just the advantage of turbos. You want big torque...you need turbos or big displacement.

As far as power goes, the M3 motor is a very highly tuned specimen. It will produce 414 hp given the right fuel, air temps, and humidity. Give it poor fuel, higher air temps and higher humidity and the power falls off.

I went through all this same stuff when I had my Audi RS4 too. For that car to produce it's rated 420 crank hp, it needed air temps of 60 degrees, low humidity and 96 octane fuel. I'm not saying this is what the M3 requires, but I am willing to bet that it is not making 414hp on 91 octane fuel or in 100 degree heat.
I can't wait for mine.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
Appreciate 0
      07-29-2011, 04:59 AM   #21
sameh
Major
sameh's Avatar
United_States
28
Rep
1,471
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 DCT JetBlk
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Don't you think if BMW lied about HP then Audi, AMG or Mustang would have a field day with it??!!!
They test their cars and they can prove it. Whether you can reproduce the sane reading or not depends on ALOT of variables.
__________________
2011 E92 BatMobile JtBlk/Blk/Blk CF
Appreciate 0
      07-29-2011, 05:28 AM   #22
Platfawrm
Banned
United_States
1
Rep
48
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post

No two dynos will put out the same numbers. A dyno is a tuning tool, you use it to tune the car. Unless it's the exact same dyno, you can't compare numbers between them.
Ditto.

The dyno we use reads very low.. i.e Stock E92M3 puts down 307whp.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:35 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST