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      07-26-2011, 08:45 PM   #23
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Not again...

Hey, can you guys put together a true sports car... or just a sports car... Just do it like during lunch break or something, it doesn't have to be that great. We are that desperate.
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      07-26-2011, 08:56 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Why should BMW not investigate possible new segments?
We know that there is a market out there for a BMW X4.

What about the enthusiast or hardcore segment? You know the one where you offer an E92 M3 CSL or a 1M CSL for the United States.

You know that there is a market out there for a BMW M3 CSL and 1M CSL.

Why cater to enthusiasts as the brand once did, when you can instead develop strange ugly 2 door sporting SUV's for non-enthusiasts.

I'm really struggling to see any near future M product I can be even remotely looking forward to this side of the next generation M3 in what 3 years? In the next 3 years BMW is going to loose a lot of enthusiasts like me while BMW twiddles their thumbs and not give us the CSL cars of the current generation M cars for the meantime.
How is the 1M itself not doing that. It's like give an inch take a mile. What other manufacturer produces a 1 off car in large numbers for only 1 year specifically for enthusiasts?
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      07-26-2011, 09:04 PM   #25
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Why can't I get THIS out of my mind...?
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      07-26-2011, 09:09 PM   #26
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The render is cool looking. But I think it looks a bit close is size and function to the 5 series gran turismo. Replace the 5 Series GT with a proper wagon and add this K car (did I just say that?) to the mix.

BMW is really getting a bit schizophrenic with the number of models overall. Maybe they will simplify the number of variants on some of their other lines and end up with a similar overal number of offerings.

Cheers!
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      07-26-2011, 09:11 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Why should BMW not investigate possible new segments?
We know that there is a market out there for a BMW X4.

BMW are and want to remain an independent manufacturer and for them to succeed then they need to increase sales, by 2020 BMW hope that they achieve a target of over two million units are sold.

BMW is a diverse manufacturer and it is right that it seeks to embrace customers seeking something different. Something BMW excell in.
The core attributes of BMW remain such as the best driving car in it's segment as a catalyst for the brands expansion towards new markets.

BMW quality does not suffer in the face of increased profit. But engineering costs will be reduced thanks to the substantial investment of developing key modular platforms that work like Meccano or Lego. A single base whereas the addition of modular pieces can increase or decrease length, width or size. Each model is then distinguished by adding the firewall and suspension mounts to suit what model will sit on top.

This also means that additional models could come from one matrix.
BMW is a business and that business has to make money. To say that enthusiasts are brushed aside is quite wrong. BMW do make cars for enthusiasts , otherwise you would not be here.
BMW are more capable than other manufacturers regarding certain things for example- If you take the M3 for example - BMW are the only manufactuer who has the best cost-to-manufacturer ratio for a carbon fibre roof piece for that segment. Audi can not do that neither can Mercedes-Benz without taking the price for the final unit higher than expected.

BMW will be the first manufacturer to produce mass volume CFRP and investment does in part come from sales especially the best selling SAV's.
Aslong as the SAV's continue to bring in money and fund other projects @ BMW. Then BMW will continue to investigate further options.
If BMW is to retain it's independence then it has to investigate and cater for new markets. And so will BMW North America - It can no longer allow enthusiasts and the media to turn it's nose up at innovation and products that can work in every other market .

Radical change is coming.
Jack of all trades, master of none.

BMW used to thrive in it's mastery of particular models, the M brand in particular. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Also, here in America, we must be wary of large growth too quickly. It has all but devastated our economy. I would much prefer a strong focus to lie in 6-8 areas rather than bending that precision for the sake of applying it to 20-30 areas.
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      07-26-2011, 09:12 PM   #28
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1M Availability

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Originally Posted by CarolinaBlue View Post
How is the 1M itself not doing that. It's like give an inch take a mile. What other manufacturer produces a 1 off car in large numbers for only 1 year specifically for enthusiasts?
Unless you are going to stalk a dealer/get on a waitlist for a single, unseen, allocated 1M, I don't see how buying a 1M is going to be viable. Am I wrong about the 1M availability??
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      07-26-2011, 09:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Uggghh!!! Nein Danke! We might as well bring on the BMW Van!

Looks a lot like a Z4 mated with a X4... speaking of which... a two door X4 is a X2 in BMW-speak no?

Nein Danke mal zwie! Total Fail BMW.
Oh..... The way their headed...... there will be a van, and then a bus and a motorhome and then an aerobus and then a Yacht..... oh wait, they do make a Yacht! Geez guys, enough is enough!
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      07-26-2011, 09:53 PM   #30
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3 door coupe with AWD and a commanding driving position? I will take a land rover evoque please. thanks BMW please stop with the nonsense. You have enough niche cars.
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      07-26-2011, 10:13 PM   #31
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Seriously, you guys? We love you, but you do sport luxury cars best.. master your arena and focus on the best possible product. There is nothing wrong with not growing at an exponential rate. We don't Toyotas, we want BMWs.
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      07-26-2011, 10:25 PM   #32
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Its funny and clear most of you did not read this thread enough to understand the first render was done a long asS time ago, and somehow the X6 came out of the mix.
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      07-26-2011, 10:27 PM   #33
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That's like Jeremy Clarkson's take on the X6 - It just isn't good at anything. Not a good off roader. Not a good sportscar.

And it's damn ugly.
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      07-26-2011, 11:31 PM   #34
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wow another X. Hmm so when is the 1 series x coming? Oops nm it's already out in Europe lol... Waiting for the X7 then.
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      07-26-2011, 11:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcourville View Post
Haha look at BMW trying to chase the Quattro Coupe with their own version - X-Coupe.
The X-coupe is a SUV like vehicle. The Quattro coupe is a low riding sports car. They are polar opposites. I do not understand your statement.

Honestly BMW can do whatever it takes to keep producing cars that suit MY needs. If these weird vehicles are the key to doing that then I dont mind; as long as there's still a car for me to buy (aka M3).

My two hopes for BMW is that they still have a car available that still has solid driving dynamics and will suit someone looking for a sports car such as myself. The second is that BMW continues to lead every segment they approach. That is all i need.

That X-coupe car is hideous. Its concept reminds me of a Nissan Juke.

Its interesting how BMW usually seems to be ahead of the game. This X-coupe was conceived in 2001 and the market has JUST caught up. WOW... BMW should have cracked that category earlier before Land Rover and other companies did it

Enthusiasts treat BMW like their virgin daughter

Last edited by Jblack4083; 07-27-2011 at 12:06 AM.
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      07-27-2011, 12:38 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula M View Post
I wonder if BMW can dilute their brand any more..?
They haven't made a mini-van yet. If you look what Scott says, the second BMW sees a "premium" mini-van market, they will make it. And be assured, they will make an M version of it as well.
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      07-27-2011, 01:02 AM   #37
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First of all thank you Scott for the inside info- much appreciated

I do not understand the negative sentiment ( from most members) towards the proposed new models.

Reading through other posts on this site- most notably the new MB Black Series- posted yesterday, a lot of members agreed and preferred the Black to the M3 GTS- This despite the fact that MB produces MPV'S, Van's, Busses etc??

Stop bitching about new and diverse models- if you dont like it, dont buy it. In none of the posts relating to Black Series yesterday was the dilution of MB mentioned, or the dissapointment of enthusiasts- most loved it!!

Scott: please just give us (the small number of enthusiasts) the assurance that some of the profits will be directed to BMW M- please!!
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      07-27-2011, 01:08 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula M View Post
I wonder if BMW can dilute their brand any more..?
After an X5 and X6 M, I don't think so. The good news is that we'll see CF in future cars for cars that weight less. If anything good is going to come out of this, that may be just it.
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      07-27-2011, 02:12 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
They haven't made a mini-van yet. If you look what Scott says, the second BMW sees a "premium" mini-van market, they will make it. And be assured, they will make an M version of it as well.
So true!

Then BMW will see a "premium" washing machine market. A year later comes the inevitable M version washing machine with faster spin cycles and carbon fiber blades!!!




SCOTT26:

When you read all these negative comments you should realize you are basically walking into a room full of passionate enthusiasts, and spitting in our faces when you make a post about BMW's future line of zero-emission vehicles or sporty SUV's. (harsh I know, but that's the best analogy)

Each time you make a such a post, all us enthusiasts get just a bit more angry at how BMW ignores this enthusiast base that is largely responsible for making BMW so successful.

We are not dumb, and we know BMW is a business and exists solely to make money. But the term "selling out" was coined for a reason. Once you no longer create the same type of product that got you to where you are today, you ostracize your biggest supporters and end up becoming exactly what you once strove to provide an alternative to: just another luxury manufacturer swimming in a sea of soulless boring automobile appliances.

Us enthusiasts hang around here everyday hoping to find out if there is some new enthusiast model BMW has in store, and we have received nothing but disappointment for many years. The last real enthusiast or hardcore offering was the Z4M coupe, which was also the last new BMW I purchased. Yes I know it was technically a "failure" but that would have been avoided by offering the same level of hardcore sportiness in a car with 4 seats.

The E92 M3 was decent. However the huge jump in weight and loss of raw feel has ultimately kept me shy of a purchase. I chose instead to buy a pristine E46 M3 that I will keep forever.

The 1M is a failure for 2 specific reasons.

1. It has an off the shelf non-M engine. Sorry but we will never accept this.

2. BMW corporate and/or dealer network has made it a nightmare to get a hold of one due to lack of availability and dealer price gouging, all on the car that was supposed to appease the simple every man enthusiast.



All we have ever asked for is a CSL something available here in the United States. Just make it happen already.

As should be apparent in all the threads regarding the newly unveiled C63 Black Series, even on a BMW forum the overwhelming majority of us would choose the Mercedes over even the M3 GTS. That's pretty astonishing.

This reality is something you should be relaying to the decision makers at BMW. That being that they need to wake up and give us something to be proud of again. As in announcing right away. As in people like me are probably going to be buying a new Mercedes (C63 Black Series) or Porsche (next generation 911) in the immediate future and no longer see anything BMW as a viable option.
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      07-27-2011, 03:41 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
SCOTT26:
When you read all these negative comments you should realize you are basically walking into a room full of passionate enthusiasts, and spitting in our faces when you make a post about BMW's future line of zero-emission vehicles or sporty SUV's. (harsh I know, but that's the best analogy)

Each time you make a such a post, all us enthusiasts get just a bit more angry at how BMW ignores this enthusiast base that is largely responsible for making BMW so successful.
How do you figure that? what makes BMW so sucessful is the massive numbers of non-biased car buyers out there who choose to buy BMW products, the enthusiast portion of BMW sales is probably much smaller.

Quote:
We are not dumb, and we know BMW is a business and exists solely to make money. But the term "selling out" was coined for a reason. Once you no longer create the same type of product that got you to where you are today
But they ARE still making the same type of product that got them where they are... 3 series, 5 series, 7 series... they all STILL EXIST, BMW have merely added to the line-up to cater for people who don't want a 3 box saloon or 2 door coupe. And, lets not forget that in past times BMW have created vehicles that don't fit in their core line-up (as dictated by forum members)... cars such as the Isetta and the 600 helped save the company once. Cars such as the '02 Tii, Z1, 3er Tourer, X5 etc. were all born out the desire to make something a little bit different to keep customers happy.

Quote:
Us enthusiasts hang around here everyday hoping to find out if there is some new enthusiast model BMW has in store, and we have received nothing but disappointment for many years.
You do not speak for everyone. 1M, GTS, CRT, performance parts...

Quote:
The 1M is a failure for 2 specific reasons.

1. It has an off the shelf non-M engine. Sorry but we will never accept this.

2. BMW corporate and/or dealer network has made it a nightmare to get a hold of one due to lack of availability and dealer price gouging, all on the car that was supposed to appease the simple every man enthusiast.
WE? again, you don't speak for everyone... and you think dealer availability would be any different on a CSL type model??

Quote:
As should be apparent in all the threads regarding the newly unveiled C63 Black Series, even on a BMW forum the overwhelming majority of us would choose the Mercedes over even the M3 GTS. That's pretty astonishing.

This reality is something you should be relaying to the decision makers at BMW. That being that they need to wake up and give us something to be proud of again. As in announcing right away. As in people like me are probably going to be buying a new Mercedes (C63 Black Series) or Porsche (next generation 911) in the immediate future and no longer see anything BMW as a viable option.
So you've lost faith in BMW, and would choose a C63 Black over a GTS because BMW are making too many other models....

... errm, A, B, C, CL, CLS, E, G, GL, M, R, S, SL, SLK, SLS, Vito, Vario, Sprinter, Atego, Axor, Actros...

Hypocrisy? Maybe?

The 911 to be fair may well be a better car, and that would be a valid reason for the choice... but again, if you disregard cars from manufacturers that have diversified their range, then you're shit out of luck with Porsche too.




I might join Fourtitude, there seems to be less BMW hating going on there than on Bimmerpost.
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Last edited by Matski; 07-27-2011 at 03:52 AM.
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      07-27-2011, 04:52 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
So you've lost faith in BMW, and would choose a C63 Black over a GTS because BMW are making too many other models....

... errm, A, B, C, CL, CLS, E, G, GL, M, R, S, SL, SLK, SLS, Vito, Vario, Sprinter, Atego, Axor, Actros...

Hypocrisy? Maybe?

The 911 to be fair may well be a better car, and that would be a valid reason for the choice... but again, if you disregard cars from manufacturers that have diversified their range, then you're shit out of luck with Porsche too.
Do you really think if I could show up to my local BMW dealership tomorrow and order an M3 CSL or 1M CSL I would give a hoot what else is sitting on the lot?

You just made the same fallacy in logic that happens almost every time someone defends BMW for making M SUV's. You conveniently made the jump in reasoning that I am unhappy with BMW on the independent basis of them making M SUV's when that was never said.

What I did say was that people like me (sorry for insinuating you think the same) are upset that BMW is focusing on such endeavors as M SUV's, Z/X series crossovers, or whatever to the detriment of their enthusiast or hardcore products. The most "hardcore" car BMW sells in the United States is a sporty GT (M3) or a near sports car with a unsatisfying engine (1M).

Last time I checked Audi has the R8, Mercedes has the SLS and the Black Series, and Porsche has more hardcore cayman/boxster/911 variants than I can name here. What does BMW have?
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      07-27-2011, 05:20 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
Do you really think if I could show up to my local BMW dealership tomorrow and order an M3 CSL or 1M CSL I would give a hoot what else is sitting on the lot?

You just made the same fallacy in logic that happens almost every time someone defends BMW for making M SUV's. You conveniently made the jump in reasoning that I am unhappy with BMW on the independent basis of them making M SUV's when that was never said.

What I did say was that people like me (sorry for insinuating you think the same) are upset that BMW is focusing on such endeavors as M SUV's, Z/X series crossovers, or whatever to the detriment of their enthusiast or hardcore products. The most "hardcore" car BMW sells in the United States is a sporty GT (M3) or a near sports car with a unsatisfying engine (1M).

Last time I checked Audi has the R8, Mercedes has the SLS and the Black Series, and Porsche has more hardcore cayman/boxster/911 variants than I can name here. What does BMW have?
+1

We are in 2011 and BMW the only brand without a real supercar!
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      07-27-2011, 05:45 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davin View Post
Rear end instantly reminded me of the Fiat Coupe
Both are Chris Bangle designs.

As for the BMW supercar, I totally agree. BMW need one. I don't buy any excuse, MB's done it, Audi's done it, Lexus, even Nissan (to an extent) has done it. No excuse about costs, market, blahblahblah. Just roll it on BMW!
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      07-27-2011, 06:31 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaBlue View Post
How is the 1M itself not doing that. It's like give an inch take a mile. What other manufacturer produces a 1 off car in large numbers for only 1 year specifically for enthusiasts?
W.O.R.D., Dude.

Once again we see the "enthusiast" mentality: if it doesn't fit 100% with my own unique wants, it's not worthy.

That's not interest and involvement. It's a one-person audience focused on "me."
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