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      07-27-2011, 10:52 AM   #23
youngnastyman
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after reading thru this thread i had to go and research how a 6MT works... lol
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      07-27-2011, 10:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX View Post
sorry for my delay in getting back to you all, but I just got off shift.

Anyway, the car was purchased from a major BMW dealer with several similar stores with the same name. It was sold with a warranty, but I did not pay attention to it being a CPO, and as such I'd say it is probably not. I do have the full remainder of the factory warranty. It's an 09 with barely 20K miles on it, was purchased with just shy of 16K. Single owner before. I really cant see the previous owner beating this car as it is honestly totally spotless. There is not a scuff on the leather or even a single ding or scuff on any of the exterior. It's really really a mirror surface when you look at it waxed. I did have to put new tires under it after purchasing it as they are the original tires and were pretty low on the rears. I actually thought this was good as I only expect 10K or so out of a set on the roads we have here and I replaced them around 18K. Due to the tire wear I didn't feel that it had been abused (other than maybe poor clutch work) The only damage I can find on the entire car is one of the speaker grills in the left rear seat is dented in like someone had a set of golf clubs or something laid across the back seat or else some little kid sat there and pushed in on it till the grill dented in.

My only issue since I've purchased this car has been the shifting madness. It sends chills down my spine when I'm pushing 5K in 2nd and going into 3rd to find a bone chilling grind as I try to select 3rd with the clutch into the floor.

Either A) clutch is not releasing even though its hammered into the floor
or B) synchromesh is missing teeth and is hosed.

I've got back and forth...but did the chicken come before the egg or is the egg before the chicken?

I've been trying to trouble shoot it and figure out which is the root of the problem. If I pay for a new clutch and the problem still exists any chance of getting the dealer to recoup my purchase of a clutch?
Maybe I should go into it and say "hey if you replace the clutch and it fixes the problem then I will pay for the clutch, but if it doesn't you replace my transmission."
...Yeah I dont think that will work, but it's worth a shot.
Call the dealer and ask if they submitted a PUMA case to BMW. Basically when they are troubleshooting and hit an odd situation, they submit a case to be reviewed by BMW. BMW then provides the troubleshooting steps to be carried out to establish root cause. I find it very difficult to believe that they drove the car, submitted a PUMA case, no troubleshooting was done, and the conclusion was to replace the clutch. Again, I would also ask to speak to the regional BMW rep and calmly explain the situation and how dissatisfied you are with the process.

This really sucks; I hope you can get it resolved.

-Chris
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      07-27-2011, 11:16 AM   #25
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Mine has a similar issue but not as severe as yours. Which is why I am getting rid of mine/
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      07-27-2011, 09:39 PM   #26
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I got my clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, bearing, slave cylinder replaced under warranty. THEY NEVER gave me a problem.
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      07-28-2011, 01:03 AM   #27
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I got my clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, bearing, slave cylinder replaced under warranty. THEY NEVER gave me a problem.
Wow I wish I had your luck. I did let them bleed the clutch and they said they found air in the lines (how did it get in there?). They've returned the car back to me and it's still producing the same problem with the same sponge like feel on the clutch and random grinding of gears. I have an off and on again clutch plate clattering when I'm sitting at a red light with the clutch up sitting out of gear. It's loud enough to be heard over the radio. I'm taking it back in this week to see what they can do about it.

I may have to bite the bill and pay for them to open the clutch and determine whats wrong, but I'm still feeling like it's a combo clutch and synchro pack problem.

Thanks for the tips guys,
It's appreciated.
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      07-28-2011, 01:03 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by kiloil View Post
I got my clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, bearing, slave cylinder replaced under warranty. THEY NEVER gave me a problem.
Sorry, I forgot to ask at what mileage did you have those items replaced and what issues did you have for them to do all of that under warranty?
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      08-04-2011, 01:35 AM   #29
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it was a common problem for 6mt. I mean the first to second gear grinding noise.
thanks for the input, I had it happen again tonight rather horribly. I was heavy on the gas on a 1 to 2 shift and it rejected my 2nd gear selection with a horrible huge grind, but since I was already back on the gas during the shift I ended up bouncing off the rev-limiter well into the 8,000 rpm range. I think this is the end of the line for me and i'm going to seriously press the dealer about getting a new transmission. If I end up blowing a motor due to a missed shift from a bad gearbox they are going to blame me. If I end up breaking a tooth off the gearbox and blowing a gearbox they are going to blame me. Basically, anything that happens down the road is going to be blamed on me when the gearbox was the root of the problem. Due to this risk I am going to request a new transmission or I'm going to be trading the car in for a DCT or new 6MT. I cant take the risk of a $25,000+ engine or a $7,000 transmission when it's defective to begin with. I purchashed this car with this problem and the dealer insists it's either fine or is in the clutch.
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      08-04-2011, 07:40 AM   #30
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So... the dealer thinks you have a clutch problem which you refuse to get fixed and you're still doing 1-2 shifts heavy on the gas? I think you're pushing your luck.
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      08-04-2011, 12:22 PM   #31
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not a clutch problem. Gearbox. Try another dealer or smth.
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      08-04-2011, 12:31 PM   #32
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Hmmmm... funny cause i think most of this are just a driver error...

So many 6mt issues here on the forum but none of them really had an issue like mine, most were driver error.

I was able to drive couple M3 that stated that they have notchy gearbox... all along it wasnt the issue.

I had my tranny replaced due to one of the part was bend and was having issue on getting in 2nd gear..... doesnt matter if your on it or not...

This was determine by the BMW mechanic and was replaced and approve by BMW... also i didnt have issue on grinds it was just sometimes impossible to put the gear on 2nd due to the bend part.

NOW MY QUESTION IS...

1. DO YOU HAVE ISSUE CHANGING GEARS ON LOW RPM (BASICALLY NORMAL DRIVING?)
2. IS IT NOTCHY ON ALL GEARS OR JUST 1 & 2ND.
3. WHAT RPM DO YOU USUALLY SHIFT ON NORMAL DRIVING?
4. HAVE YOU REPLACED THE TRANNY OIL RECENTLY OR BETTER YET WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CHANGE OR DEALER CHANGED THE TRANNY OIL...
5. HAVE YOU HAD ANOTHER DEALER TEST DRIVE THE CAR
6. FIND ANOTHER 6MT M3 AND HAVE THEM DRIVE YOUR CAR.
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      08-04-2011, 01:13 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z00m View Post
not a clutch problem. Gearbox. Try another dealer or smth.
Nothing he's described sounds like a pure gearbox problem.

Now if it's in gear and pops out, yeah... synchros... I've had that happen on my racecar. But everything he's described is having trouble getting in or out of gear, which sounds like a clutch that's not disengaging. I've had that before on another car and it was a hydraulic problem.
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      08-04-2011, 01:41 PM   #34
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I was just at the dealer having the oil changed on my 2008 E90M3, built in 04/08. I asked the dealer to change the transmission and diff fluids. The dealer said BMW specifies the changes only at the 1200 mile break in. I said the 1-2 shift was notchy when cold. They had one of the mechanics drive the car with me in it. He said my car shifted fine and that BMW would not cover a tranny fluid change. He explained that these gearboxes are notchy and that 2nd gear is particularly notchy because BMW knows that gear gets a lot of abuse and is made more robust. I have a CPO warranty, so I have three years to see how the transmission does. It does not jump out of gear or grind. It just seems a little notchy to me when cold and it makes me want to shift more slowly than I feel I should have to shift.
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      08-04-2011, 01:47 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
I was just at the dealer having the oil changed on my 2008 E90M3, built in 04/08. I asked the dealer to change the transmission and diff fluids. The dealer said BMW specifies the changes only at the 1200 mile break in. I said the 1-2 shift was notchy when cold. They had one of the mechanics drive the car with me in it. He said my car shifted fine and that BMW would not cover a tranny fluid change. He explained that these gearboxes are notchy and that 2nd gear is particularly notchy because BMW knows that gear gets a lot of abuse and is made more robust. I have a CPO warranty, so I have three years to see how the transmission does. It does not jump out of gear or grind. It just seems a little notchy to me when cold and it makes me want to shift more slowly than I feel I should have to shift.
I thought i had a problem as well and was told something similar to what you've described above. If the car drives fine, don't think too much about it. Maybe a SSK would help?
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      08-04-2011, 07:30 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
I was just at the dealer having the oil changed on my 2008 E90M3, built in 04/08. I asked the dealer to change the transmission and diff fluids. The dealer said BMW specifies the changes only at the 1200 mile break in. I said the 1-2 shift was notchy when cold. They had one of the mechanics drive the car with me in it. He said my car shifted fine and that BMW would not cover a tranny fluid change. He explained that these gearboxes are notchy and that 2nd gear is particularly notchy because BMW knows that gear gets a lot of abuse and is made more robust. I have a CPO warranty, so I have three years to see how the transmission does. It does not jump out of gear or grind. It just seems a little notchy to me when cold and it makes me want to shift more slowly than I feel I should have to shift.
With 6MT the trans and diff fluids are to be changed "At every 3rd Engine Oil Service..." according to warrenty. I imagine this would be about 40-45 thousand miles. If you want it done before that, it'll be on your dime. So, after 1200 service you'll only get one trans & diff fluid change under warrenty.

As to OP question, exclusions from coverage under warrenty do not expressly mention clutch/transmission. However, they do state the catch-all: "Damage which results from negligence, improper operation of vehicle, wear and tear or deteriation due to driving habits or conditions..." Does this sound like what you're doing? In any case, it is incombent upon the dealer &/or BMW to show that it's your fault and not a true warrenty issue.

Good luck.
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      08-04-2011, 11:07 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I purchashed this car with this problem and the dealer insists it's either fine or is in the clutch.
Your problem seems more severe than usual, and whatever it is, they should have fixed it already. Keep all your communications in case you're forced to seek legal help. You shouldn't have to pay for a clutch with only 4K miles under your belt. I'd start escalating the issue in a polite way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
He explained that these gearboxes are notchy and that 2nd gear is particularly notchy because BMW knows that gear gets a lot of abuse and is made more robust. It does not jump out of gear or grind. It just seems a little notchy to me when cold and it makes me want to shift more slowly than I feel I should have to shift.
The first sentence makes sense. And that's exactly how my car feels, and all others I've driven. I just don't rush that shift. We're talking fractions of a second. That notchiness (and 5th) is what prevents me to rate this tranny a 10, but it's a solid 9, but to me is a 9.5 since I don't rush shifts. This car is no drag racer, and taking a fraction of a second longer to avoid botching a shift is absolutely no problem for me. A ZHP knob and RP fluid made it almost perfect. Enjoy a manual tranny while they last .
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      08-04-2011, 11:19 PM   #38
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That notchiness (and 5th) is what prevents me to rate this tranny a 10, but it's a solid 9, but to me is a 9.5 since I don't rush shifts. This car is no drag racer, and taking a fraction of a second longer to avoid botching a shift is absolutely no problem for me. A ZHP knob and RP fluid made it almost perfect. Enjoy a manual tranny while they last .

I usually agree with your thoughts on these matters, but I have to disagree here. The 6MT is nowhere near a 10, not even close. I drove my S2000 for the most of the week this week, and that is how a manual trans should feel like. Bolt-action rifle like. Positive and crisp clicks into the proper slot, short throw. It too has issues with 1-2, like the M3's. I'd rate it a 9.5 (throws could be slightly shorter), but the M3's is a 6 at best.

It's too rubbery between the gates, the gates themselves are notchy but not in a nice positive way, and the throws are a bit on the long side. I still love it, and love the fact that a 6MT is still available, but no reason as to why they can't make the thing much better.
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      08-05-2011, 12:10 AM   #39
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Your problem seems more severe than usual, and whatever it is, they should have fixed it already. Keep all your communications in case you're forced to seek legal help. You shouldn't have to pay for a clutch with only 4K miles under your belt. I'd start escalating the issue in a polite way.


The first sentence makes sense. And that's exactly how my car feels, and all others I've driven. I just don't rush that shift. We're talking fractions of a second. That notchiness (and 5th) is what prevents me to rate this tranny a 10, but it's a solid 9, but to me is a 9.5 since I don't rush shifts. This car is no drag racer, and taking a fraction of a second longer to avoid botching a shift is absolutely no problem for me. A ZHP knob and RP fluid made it almost perfect. Enjoy a manual tranny while they last .
Wow. You must've gotten your M3 after a series of Yugos. (I know you didn't, so plz don't bother telling me how many other great cars you've had. :P)
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