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      07-21-2011, 10:50 AM   #1
mkoesel
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Here's a short article, with press release, about Mercedes new M152 V8.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/21/m...for-slk55-amg/

It makes 415hp, 398ft-lbs from 5.5L. Not overly impressive, no. But, aside from the fact that new naturally aspirated V8s themselves are becoming a rarity these days, the most interesting part is the cylinder deactivation and how it is implemented.

At a basic level, this is just an M157 without the turbos. It will only be used in the SLK55, or so it seems right now. Presumably the next generation AMG C-class ("C63") will use the M157 like other AMGs, though conceivably they could use a higher output version of this new M152 instead. Redline RPM is 7200RPM just like the existing 6.2L M156 (which will soon go away for good, except in M159 form, in the SLS).

Just thought this might be noteworthy here due to all the discussion of the next generation M3 and it's lack of V8. I found it interesting that Mercedes took this approach for an engine that will just be used in one car (if that really is the case...) and the cylinder deac is an innovative (though not unique) alternative to going with forced induction.
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      07-21-2011, 10:59 AM   #2
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Im surprised to see them introducing a new v8 in a time where they are going to be extinct soon enough.... Im not impressed with the engine though.

Its great to see them keep trying instead of giving up on the big engine scene, thats something I can respect instead of selling out to turbos so soon.

so for this, i give mb props.
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      07-21-2011, 11:11 AM   #3
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See, I told you, next M3 will be V8 tripple turbo with 500HP and 10K RPM redline...Oh, and fying pink pigs are gonna reach 30,000feet.
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      07-21-2011, 11:39 AM   #4
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interesting, mbz tried cylinder shut off years ago and didnt work too well.

wonder how this will pan out.
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      07-21-2011, 02:20 PM   #5
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BMW won't do it. R&D is expensive. /thread
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      07-21-2011, 02:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wall$treet View Post
So what is the downside cylinder shut down? Vettes seem to have been enjoying it for years successfully with gobs of HP, throttle response and great mileage?

Problem is that I believe the two approaches to cutting mpg, being TT and cylinder deactivation really depend on what kind of driving you do. Atleast from my basic understanding.

Cylinder deactivation is not great for around the city driving benefit. The benefit is had mostly highway cruising when you do not go above 3k rpms.

However in the city, it is tough to really stay at 2500-3k and you would be above or below the range of "shutoff" so many times per second, not sure any savings would be had at all.

Seems like TT is a more "usable" way of cutting mpg and still allowing normal driving behavior in addition to mpg savings in all types of driving.

maybe I am wrong, this is just a guess?
If it was independent of rpm's, cylinder deactivation would make more sense to me..
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      07-21-2011, 04:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wall$treet View Post
So what is the downside cylinder shut down? Vettes seem to have been enjoying it for years successfully with gobs of HP, throttle response and great mileage?
Although Vettes have never used cylinder shutdown, Honda has used it for a number of years in their minivans, and to my knowledge there has been no downside at all - although if you are paying very close attention, you can feel the changeover, both ways.

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Originally Posted by Wall$treet View Post
Problem is that I believe the two approaches to cutting mpg, being TT and cylinder deactivation really depend on what kind of driving you do. Atleast from my basic understanding.
That has certainly been correct up to now.

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Originally Posted by Wall$treet View Post
Cylinder deactivation is not great for around the city driving benefit. The benefit is had mostly highway cruising when you do not go above 3k rpms.

However in the city, it is tough to really stay at 2500-3k and you would be above or below the range of "shutoff" so many times per second, not sure any savings would be had at all.
This has been the case, but in theory with a powerful and torquey engine, you can get away with more aggressive use of cylinder deactivation, utilizing it in city driving without pissing off the driver. You would of course limit this function to when the driver chose an economy setting.

We'll see, of course.

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Originally Posted by Wall$treet View Post
Seems like TT is a more "usable" way of cutting mpg and still allowing normal driving behavior in addition to mpg savings in all types of driving.
That remains to be seen. Certainly you could wake up the engine instantly from the cylinder deactivation mode, while turbos won't be hurried the same way. In addition, turbos cost real dollars for every engine you build, including all the plumbing. Cylinder deactivation will cost as well, but not nearly as much.

Cadillac first did this in the late '70s or early '80s, as I recall, but it was not nearly as refined as what is already available now. (Plus they had definite problems with the system). As with the Porsche twin-clutch gearbox of that era, the control systems available just weren't up to the job. Nowadays, computer power gets the job done properly.

Bruce

PS - I am pretty impressed with this engine (on paper, of course), but I am particularly impressed with how light the damned thing is.

PPS - In theory, turning an eight into a four would tend to be less noticeable to the driver than turning a six into a three, so Mercedes may in fact be able to get away with more aggressive use of this technology than Honda could. Capiche?

Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 07-21-2011 at 04:36 PM.
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      07-21-2011, 07:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
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I do not know where I got this idea about the vettes. Now that I think of it of course the LS engines do not do that so I was way off-not sure where I got that! Thanks for the correction Bruce.
You weren't too far off. Some of the current generation small block GM V8s do have cylinder deactivation. But not the ones used in the Corvette.
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      07-22-2011, 09:39 AM   #9
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Thumbs up AMG. 2011 and still an new NA V8. It is really light, has more torque and nearlly same power as S65, could have more if it revved above 8.000 RPM. This engine should get modified by M GmbH and be put in to the next M3 F3X. Shame on BMW.

Last edited by Levi; 07-22-2011 at 09:44 AM.
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      07-22-2011, 09:55 AM   #10
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Levi, Your avatar says you are in Italy and drives Alfa-Romeo..Being an avid F1 follower I can't help but wonder if we are missing Renault (best engins and aerodynamics in F1 now) here in the USA. How is Renault performing in Europe? mainly in the NA performance cars sector. Any strong M3 competion from Renault side?
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      07-22-2011, 09:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
Levi, Your avatar says you are in Italy and drives Alfa-Romeo..Being an avid F1 follower I can't help but wonder if we are missing Renault (best engins and aerodynamics in F1 now) here in the USA. How is Renault performing in Europe? mainly in the NA performance cars sector. Any strong M3 competion from Renault side?
I don't even think Renault has any RWD cars, let alone something that can challange M3.
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      07-22-2011, 10:03 AM   #12
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I don't even think Renault has any RWD cars, let alone something that can challange M3.
I just browsed online and it doesn't seem that Renault produce any performance cars...Reaaally surprised.. where does all there F1 technology go? what a waste!! Sorry for Hijacking the thread, I'll shut up now.
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      07-22-2011, 11:18 AM   #13
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Just a quick reply to sameh as well, look at Citroen-Peugeot as well, champs in WRC-Grand Am and they don't have any high performance cars either. Also sorry for the highjack but not in a way, where does these manufacturers' R&D go to if not their commercial lineup?
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      08-31-2011, 07:40 AM   #14
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Just thought I'd add to this thread rather than starting a new one.

Audi just announced some details of their new 4L TFSI V8, and they too, are using cylinder deactivation.

Quote:
The S6 and S6 Avant use the 309 kW (420 hp) version of the new 4.0 TFSI. The twin-turbo V8 provides a constant 550 Nm (405.66 lb-ft) of torque from 1,400 to 5,300 rpm. It accelerates the S6 from 0 to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in 4.8 seconds and the S6 Avant in 4.9 seconds. With both models, the electronically governed top speed of 250 km/h (155.34 mph) is just a formality.

The 4.0 TFSI brings Audi's downsizing strategy to the high-performance class. Compared to the engine in the previous model, the free-breathing, 5.2-liter V10, it offers even sportier performance while reducing fuel consumption by as much as
25 percent. Average fuel consumption is just 9.7 liters per 100 km (24.25 US mpg) in the S6 and 9.8 liters (24.0 US mpg) in the S6 Avant, well below that of the competition.

A number of technologies contribute to this top result, including the recuperation and start-stop systems as well as the new "cylinder on demand" cylinder management system. When the V8 deactivates four cylinders under part load, the Active Noise Cancellation system (ANC) is activated. Four microphones integrated into the headlining record the noise in the cabin, which is then analyzed by a computer. If the computer detects intrusive sound elements, it broadcasts an antiphase sound through the speakers of the sound system. This sound combines with the intrusive sound and largely cancels it out.

Independent of this, active, electronically controlled engine bearings use targeted counterpulses to attenuate low-frequency vibrations. A sound actuator, flaps in the exhaust system, the engine shroud and a newly developed two-mass flywheel with a centrifugal force pendulum in the seven-speed S tronic also contribute to the sonorous sound and smoothness of the engine.
FWIW, the S8 uses a 520hp version of this same engine, so it is no slouch.
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      08-31-2011, 09:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
I just browsed online and it doesn't seem that Renault produce any performance cars...Reaaally surprised.. where does all there F1 technology go? what a waste!! Sorry for Hijacking the thread, I'll shut up now.
Renault do produce performance cars here in Europe but they are small hatchbacks with 200 -270 or so hp. Developed by Renaultsport these cars are well sorted drivers cars and relatively cheap. Look up the clio cup 200 and megane RS.
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      08-31-2011, 09:42 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
BMW won't do it. R&D is expensive. /thread
According to an Autoblog article a while ago, BMW commits the highest percentage of its revenue to R&D out of all other makes, tying with Honda.

EDIT: Found it. http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/15/v...andd-spending/
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      08-31-2011, 10:29 AM   #17
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According to an Autoblog article a while ago, BMW commits the highest percentage of its revenue to R&D out of all other makes, tying with Honda.

EDIT: Found it. http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/15/v...andd-spending/
I should've been more specific. BMW won't invest in efficient NA engines. See the front page, their focus is self driving cars with no exhaust note.
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      08-31-2011, 11:32 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post

PPS - In theory, turning an eight into a four would tend to be less noticeable to the driver than turning a six into a three, so Mercedes may in fact be able to get away with more aggressive use of this technology than Honda could. Capiche?

My 08 suburban has cylinder de activation. Other than an indicator on the cluster showing 4 or 8 One cannot feel the changeover. If I maintain below 65mph and the road is flat, it stays on 4 cyl mode longer, now i know it not a high hp engine. I swear i get close to 30mpg but I cant drive that slow.
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