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      12-14-2011, 04:53 PM   #441
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Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Roughly 10:1 I believe, any word from Mo on a new track date?
i haven't heard back from Mo.
Did your redline get lowered or raised at all?
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      12-14-2011, 05:09 PM   #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
i haven't heard back from Mo.
Did your redline get lowered or raised at all?
Redline is the same.
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      12-14-2011, 07:14 PM   #443
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ohhh and one other thing.............price???
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      12-14-2011, 08:35 PM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Your non-intercooled, 5 psi, VT535 trapped 125MPH @ ATCO, your at roughly 480whp? Not a chance a VT535 would trap that high at another track or in the summer time, unless the DA was -1000+, MIR it certainly could this time of year. I'm sure you're aware that if you could get a VT625, get the drag setup that Mike has available at VAC and run this time of year, you could trap 132+, and with a good launch match their awesome times, it's not going to be easy though, 10.69 is just flat out fast.
I went to Sac Thanksgiving weekend, for the purpose of seeing how the Vbox and timeslips compare. Famoso is .6 to 1.0 mph slower than the Vbox. Sac is 2mph slower. So a little over a mph slower than Famoso, BUT better DA generally. So it might be a wash. ETs are spot on with the Vbox reading. Of course this is a far cry from when Sac used to read 2.7mph FASTER than the Vbox.

I have been begging from someone to Vbox at that incredible ATCO track. I would love to see how the numbers compare.

Drew...if I can resolve my misfire problem (installing new coils tonight). I am definitely making the trip to Sac beginning of next month. Eric with the C63 AMG is probably going to come also. I would go the first week of January..but probably not a good idea New Years Eve...so it will probably be Jan 7th for me. Let me know if you are interested in coming. And its only about $60 to go to Sac.
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      12-14-2011, 08:50 PM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
I went to Sac Thanksgiving weekend, for the purpose of seeing how the Vbox and timeslips compare. Famoso is .6 to 1.0 mph slower than the Vbox. Sac is 2mph slower. So a little over a mph slower than Famoso, BUT better DA generally. So it might be a wash. ETs are spot on with the Vbox reading. Of course this is a far cry from when Sac used to read 2.7mph FASTER than the Vbox.

I have been begging from someone to Vbox at that incredible ATCO track. I would love to see how the numbers compare.

Drew...if I can resolve my misfire problem (installing new coils tonight). I am definitely making the trip to Sac beginning of next month. Eric with the C63 AMG is probably going to come also. I would go the first week of January..but probably not a good idea New Years Eve...so it will probably be Jan 7th for me. Let me know if you are interested in coming. And its only about $60 to go to Sac.
Great info Warren, if they don't do a private event at Famoso, you can most likely count me in for the trip to Sac.
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      12-14-2011, 08:52 PM   #446
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Akash has a VBox - perhaps he has some insight!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
I went to Sac Thanksgiving weekend, for the purpose of seeing how the Vbox and timeslips compare. Famoso is .6 to 1.0 mph slower than the Vbox. Sac is 2mph slower. So a little over a mph slower than Famoso, BUT better DA generally. So it might be a wash. ETs are spot on with the Vbox reading. Of course this is a far cry from when Sac used to read 2.7mph FASTER than the Vbox.

I have been begging from someone to Vbox at that incredible ATCO track. I would love to see how the numbers compare.

Drew...if I can resolve my misfire problem (installing new coils tonight). I am definitely making the trip to Sac beginning of next month. Eric with the C63 AMG is probably going to come also. I would go the first week of January..but probably not a good idea New Years Eve...so it will probably be Jan 7th for me. Let me know if you are interested in coming. And its only about $60 to go to Sac.
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      12-14-2011, 09:06 PM   #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
Akash has a VBox - perhaps he has some insight!
Jamie had one as well, be interesting to see what the Vbox read.
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ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
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      12-15-2011, 07:08 AM   #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Peciek View Post
There are some significant differences between a drag strip and how the vBox calculates things. The drag strip has a 1' roll out, and the trap speeds are all an average of two points. I believe the 1/8 mile trap speed is the average of the speed at 600ft and 660ft, and the 1/4 mile trap speed is the average of 1256ft and 1320ft. So the vBox ET will always match the time slip, but the trap speed on the vBox will always show higher.

It is possible to write a program to read the vBox files and apply the NHRA rules to the results. Such a program does exist. When you use it, the vBox trap speed will usually match the timeslip within a few hundredths of a mile per hour.

Since there is some question about Sac's timing lights these days, it would be interesting to use such a program to scan the vBox files and see how closely they match Sac results.
I have run dozens and dozens of track slip/vbox comparisons. Yes, in theory the Vbox should always read a little faster in the 1/4 trap than the timeslip, as the 1/4 speed is more the true speed than the speed averaged through a greater distance (the track timing lights). But the fact of the matter is, some tracks actually read faster than the Vbox, and some are close to the same. The other day in AZ a guy in a 335i ran a 10.2x at 117 mph or something like that. Its too bad he didn't have a vbox to see what he actually ran.

Once I figure out what the track/vbox trap speed differential is, I will know 99% of the time, almost exactly what my timeslip is going to read before I receive it.
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      12-15-2011, 10:55 AM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
I have run dozens and dozens of track slip/vbox comparisons. Yes, in theory the Vbox should always read a little faster in the 1/4 trap than the timeslip, as the 1/4 speed is more the true speed than the speed averaged through a greater distance (the track timing lights). But the fact of the matter is, some tracks actually read faster than the Vbox, and some are close to the same. The other day in AZ a guy in a 335i ran a 10.2x at 117 mph or something like that. Its too bad he didn't have a vbox to see what he actually ran.

Once I figure out what the track/vbox trap speed differential is, I will know 99% of the time, almost exactly what my timeslip is going to read before I receive it.
I'm pretty sure you screwed up with that time. 10.2 or 12.2?
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      12-15-2011, 11:06 AM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Peciek View Post
There are some significant differences between a drag strip and how the vBox calculates things. The drag strip has a 1' roll out, and the trap speeds are all an average of two points. I believe the 1/8 mile trap speed is the average of the speed at 600ft and 660ft, and the 1/4 mile trap speed is the average of 1256ft and 1320ft. So the vBox ET will always match the time slip, but the trap speed on the vBox will always show higher.

It is possible to write a program to read the vBox files and apply the NHRA rules to the results. Such a program does exist. When you use it, the vBox trap speed will usually match the timeslip within a few hundredths of a mile per hour.

Since there is some question about Sac's timing lights these days, it would be interesting to use such a program to scan the vBox files and see how closely they match Sac results.
You are correct about the averages should read higher since the VBOX trap is the instantaneous speed at 1320'.
The time slip is the average velocity in the last 60'.
When Sac's slips were reading really high, it read about 2-3 mph higher than the vbox.
When I was there, it looked like the timing box at the 1260 mark was moved about 2 ft closer to the 1320 mark. This means that (T2-T1)/60 should have been (T2-T1)/58.
When I looked at my run using the reacelogic software, I played around with taking the time at 58' before and 60' before the end.
When i used the 58 before, I got the same traps as what Sac displayed.

Now, they tried to fix it but went the other way.
They really are clueless over there.
I wonder if they've heard of the word "calibration" lol.
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      12-15-2011, 12:36 PM   #451
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Holy shit.
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      12-15-2011, 03:34 PM   #452
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Quote:
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I have been begging from someone to Vbox at that incredible ATCO track. I would love to see how the numbers compare.
I VBoxed the "incredible" Atco track in my 996tt.

VBox read 11.0@136

Slip read 10.91@135.5

Every run was like that. .1s slower et and 1mph faster mph on VBox. I ran left lane at Atco.

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      12-15-2011, 03:40 PM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigymb View Post
I VBoxed the "incredible" Atco track in my 996tt.

VBox read 11.0@136

Slip read 10.91@135.5

Every run was like that. .1s slower et and 1mph faster mph on VBox. I ran left lane at Atco.

Good stuff Mark, that's right where it should be. I don't think anyone disputes the ET's and traps there as being inflated, it's incredible because it gets -1000+ DA around this time of year.

What setup are you running on the 996TT?
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ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi

Last edited by DLSJ5; 12-15-2011 at 03:53 PM.
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      12-16-2011, 04:05 AM   #454
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First of all Drew very nice build!

Looks like it will be a monster. Instead of doing 94 + Meth; I would be curious regarding this car being tuned on E85!



I am assuming these dynos were all done on 91 octane California fuel? In which case the comparison seems to show the VT3 at 3.5-4psi more is 'safer' (due to LC) and quite a nice upgrade .

*****

Forgive me if I am a little inquisitive in this post; but I am very curious regarding the low compression S65 motor. I have a few questions, if you wouldn't mind taking a few moments to answer.

1) Besides the pistons and rods; did anything else need to be upgraded? (ie. bearings, cylinder walls, heads [PnP, valves, retainers/springs], etc?)

2) I am assuming you used coated 2618 Forged LC pistons? How do you rate them for daily driving? <-- For example, are they loud on startup? Were you told anything regarding longevity?

******

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob MG View Post
Hi Drew

I see the power was achieved 602whp @ 7950 RPM, 415wtq @6975 RPM. 10.40 PSI

Any reason why power doesn't keep climbing until red-line at 8400?

I'm sure some idiots will see the difference between the 625 VT2 being negligible, but not realizing the huge gains throughout the rev range.
I was wondering about this as well: the heads and blower I am assuming are efficient up to 8400RPM. I am suspecting it is an octane thing as well; you can see in his 94+Meth tune (VT625) his AFR at 8000 and 8400 are about the same:



However, on the 91 octane VT3 tune, his AFR richens up the higher RPM the car climbs above 7900:



Anyway that was my longwinded post!
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      12-16-2011, 04:15 AM   #455
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Also quite curious as to what kind of PTW clearances S65's with these pistons are using!
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      12-16-2011, 06:44 AM   #456
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I don't think Akash had his vbox in that day and Jamie gave me his for most of the day. He's been busy and has been meaning to send the files
over. I dont remember my times except the 0 to 60 of 3.8
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      12-16-2011, 07:46 AM   #457
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I don't think Akash had his vbox in that day and Jamie gave me his for most of the day. He's been busy and has been meaning to send the files
over. I dont remember my times except the 0 to 60 of 3.8
Yea i didnt' get a chance to set up my Vbox yet ill set it up soon just been busy. Atco is at sea level i believe so we are getting max performance out of our cars . I am going to test some things out around Atco like 0-100 60-130 runs and then compare them to my Mexico location runs. When you start adding in cooler temps and negative DA Atco is a great track depending on prep. Sorry to go off topic a little bit drew.
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      12-16-2011, 08:14 AM   #458
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I think you had a 3.6 0-60 I gotta check
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      12-16-2011, 08:54 AM   #459
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I think you had a 3.6 0-60 I gotta check
yo,can i borrow the Vbox ?
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      12-16-2011, 11:04 AM   #460
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      12-16-2011, 12:08 PM   #461
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Great questions, and thank you for the kind words, E85 could be interesting for sure, I hope these are satisfactory answers! -


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chako
I am assuming these dynos were all done on 91 octane California fuel?
The VT2-625 kit requires 93 octane or better. So the DLSJ5_ESS_VT2625 run is on 95 octane, no meth. But both of the other runs are on 91 octane no meth.

http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/showDyno.php?recID=447
http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/showDyno.php?recID=317
http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/showDyno.php?recID=311

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chako
1) Besides the pistons and rods; did anything else need to be
upgraded? (ie. bearings, cylinder walls, heads [PnP, valves, retainers/springs], etc?)
We used BMW Motorsport connecting rod bearings that are slightly different from stock. Valves, guides, retainers and valve springs are all stock. The pistons were a drop-in to the factory holes. No boring, honing, or sleeves. No head work; factory head gasket. A custom fuel system designed by ESS is required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chako
2) I am assuming you used coated 2618 Forged LC pistons? How do you rate them for daily driving? <-- For example, are they loud on
startup? Were you told anything regarding longevity?
These are factory Mahle pistons from the same assembly line as the S65 motor; they have the same exact coating and different ring configuration. There is no extra piston to wall clearance since it drops right into the factory hole without boring/honing. Same piston to wall clearance and same Mahle piston means no extra noise above stock and I would guess similar longevity. The motor is every bit as smooth as the factory motor and tuned to perfection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chako
I was wondering about this as well: the heads and blower I am assuming are efficient up to 8400RPM. I am suspecting it is an octane thing as well; you can see in his 94+Meth tune (VT625) his AFR at 8000 and 8400 are about the same:

However, on the 91 octane VT3 tune, his AFR richens up the higher RPM the car climbs above 7900:
Tuning continues, so these are first look numbers. We'll see how it looks when all of the dust settles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chako
Also quite curious as to what kind of PTW clearances S65's with these pistons are using!
Factory piston to wall clearance since these are LC factory pistons and literally drop into the factory hole without boring/honing.
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ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
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      12-17-2011, 11:32 AM   #462
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I'm tired of all these damn graphs!! please post a video, even if it's a 5 second burn out, give us something!!
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