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      06-29-2011, 02:17 PM   #1
dizzyj
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easy upgrades for dual purpose dd and occational track day?

Hi,

I've got a an 09 6mt that is my DD that I also occasionally use for hpde's (maybe 2-3 a year). I'm planning on hitting TWS in August and am trying to see if its worth doing any minor upgrades.

I'm really thinking along the lines of tires/breaks, and would like to do it on a budget, and would like to see if there is a way of having 1 setup for both dd and a track day. I dont see buying a set of track tires/wheels, and I dont see swapping out break pads for a weekend.

My stock ps2's are getting pretty worn. I dont know if there is enough tread on the rears to pass the saftey inspection.

Would I do good to buy a different set of tires instead of ps2's or just bite the bullet?

same question for break pads. I know my pads are still good. and Im still under the maintenance, so it doesnt do me any real favors to buy new pads, unless I just want to pay for the better performance, but can I even put something like pagid orange on OEM calipers?

or should I just show up and drive, since Ill be in the green group and probably wont need better performing gear anyways?

Thanks.
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      06-29-2011, 03:09 PM   #2
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You would probably be fine with just fresh brake fluid. If the PS2 tires are not corded, just near the wear bars, they will be fine on a dry track. As for brake pads, that depends so much on track and driver, it’s hard to say. The least aggressive pad that serves the purpose is best, and the OE pads aren’t bad if conditions are not too demanding. Just be attentive to any fade, and ease up if necessary to allow some cooling.
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      06-29-2011, 03:20 PM   #3
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It depends on what is more comfortable to you and with in your budget. Like most people say the three major upgrades are brake fluid, brake pads, and stainless steel lines. Brake fluid upgrade is definitely a must. Having brake pads made for tracking to me is more confidence inspiring than having oem pads which are not up to the task like a full track pad.

For tires normally would recommend something a little better for tracking, but that is more up to the abuse your tires see. So if you are in novice group you would be good with the PS2 tires. If you start getting faster and moving up in groups something like the yokohama ad08 may be a better option since they can handle the track abuse better.
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      06-29-2011, 04:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VSmotorsports View Post
It depends on what is more comfortable to you and with in your budget. Like most people say the three major upgrades are brake fluid, brake pads, and stainless steel lines. Brake fluid upgrade is definitely a must. Having brake pads made for tracking to me is more confidence inspiring than having oem pads which are not up to the task like a full track pad.

For tires normally would recommend something a little better for tracking, but that is more up to the abuse your tires see. So if you are in novice group you would be good with the PS2 tires. If you start getting faster and moving up in groups something like the yokohama ad08 may be a better option since they can handle the track abuse better.
What type of brake fluid, lines, and pads would you recommend for someone in his situation?
Ironically it's the same situation I'm in, except instead of 2-3 per year, I'm at about 12 per year...
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      06-29-2011, 05:06 PM   #5
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at 12 event's a year, you should have a dedicated set of wheels/tires that you bring to the track, and probably a dedicated set of track pads too.

Best brake fluid, IMO, is the Castrol SRF. Just change it once a season.
For the OP, the pads are the real issue. Some here have recommended the Ferrodo 2500 for street and track duty.

.
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      06-29-2011, 05:12 PM   #6
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Thanks for the input. I'd like to be doing more track days than 2-3 a year, one of the reasons I was thinink of doing minor upgrades.

The track I have been to is a relativly short, curvy track. Top speed has been ~110, so not a lot of heavy breaking. I'm wanting to go do TWS which is a much faster track, so I think thats where the pads come into play.

Seems like brake fluid and SS lines are almost a no brainier. I cant see how that would adversely effect anything on the street.

do Ferrodo 2500 fit oem calipers/roters?

Also, if I were to consider getting a spare set of wheels, any suggestions to a relatively inexpensive set? Id like to stick with 18" it almost seems like I would do best to find a set of oem 18"s on this site.

Thanks again.
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      06-29-2011, 06:42 PM   #7
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I found a solution that worked well for me in a similar situation - now tracking costs me less, and I actually spend less time on car maintenance. My priority was to save time, not the money, but I ended up saving money as well because I do not need to take car to mechanic as often.

Here is how:
1. Brake fluid - Castrol SRF. Change it once a year, before the tracking season. Actually, two people who own race/performance shops told me that it's good for two years of HPDEs as it does not absorb much water in M3's system, but I still do once a year change. With stock fluid I had to do bleeds during the season as it boiled sometimes.

2. Pads - get PFC Z-rated or any other good combo track/street pad, or Endless pads once you get to expert level. These can be driven on the street, and on track with some care (e.g. I do a cool down lap in the middle of a session sometimes), and you do not need to bother swapping for every track day (save time).

3. I first got dedicated track wheels with AD08 tires, but then ended up driving on them full time because I did not have time to swap back between track days. I then put winters on my stock wheels, so now my track wheels are my summer wheels with AD08 full time. Works fine - no need to swap wheels till winter. This may be a good idea, if you do not mind a bit harsher ride (but better response) from AD08 in the city. On track, they wear much better than PS2s, especially with aggressive driving. Other similar tires should work just as well.

4. Camber plates - may be a good idea if you do many track days (6-8 or more) a season - will help save tires and will improve turn-in a bit. Even without camber plates, it probably makes sense to do more aggressive alignment - less camber at rear and max it out at the front for less understeer, plus reduce toe in (or go zero) at the front for better turn-in.

I do not know how useful brake lines are, but I got them based on recommendations. Depending on how you feel about stock seats, you may want to get a GC lock or just use a seatbelt lock trick.

That's it - a minimal investment. The result is a faster car that saves on brakes and tires and maintenance hours compared to tracking a stock car.
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      06-29-2011, 07:29 PM   #8
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DIY brake ducts, pads/fluid, and a set of camber plates would be my must-do budget tracking items
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      06-30-2011, 09:18 AM   #9
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well, poo. woke up today and one of my rear ps2's are completely flat. Being so worn, I doubt I will get another track day on these.

Might just bite the bullet and get a new set of tires/wheels.

any suggestions for a reasonably inexpensive forged 18" rim for track use?
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      06-30-2011, 09:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzyj View Post
well, poo. woke up today and one of my rear ps2's are completely flat. Being so worn, I doubt I will get another track day on these.

Might just bite the bullet and get a new set of tires/wheels.

any suggestions for a reasonably inexpensive forged 18" rim for track use?
Apex, not forged but light, strong and cheap!
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      06-30-2011, 09:27 AM   #11
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+1 on the apex wheels. We have three sets for our race car and have no issues. I would suggest the 18x10 wheel.
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      06-30-2011, 09:41 AM   #12
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18x10 all around? do I need spacers for that?
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      06-30-2011, 10:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
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18x10 all around? do I need spacers for that?
Square is what i chose and no spacers needed
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      06-30-2011, 10:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcgolfdr View Post
Square is what i chose and no spacers needed
Whats the biggest r-compound tire size we can fit on these wheels and stock e92 m3?
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      06-30-2011, 11:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 09 AND135I 11 View Post
Whats the biggest r-compound tire size we can fit on these wheels and stock e92 m3?
I am running 275/35/18 all around, but those are street tires. i was going to get the same size in R comps once these tires are shot.
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      06-30-2011, 11:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
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at 12 event's a year, you should have a dedicated set of wheels/tires that you bring to the track, and probably a dedicated set of track pads too.

Best brake fluid, IMO, is the Castrol SRF. Just change it once a season.
For the OP, the pads are the real issue. Some here have recommended the Ferrodo 2500 for street and track duty.

.
I got a set of OEM 18s that I was only going to use on the track and I would daily my 220Ms

But like MaxL, I decided to just keep them on

Thing is, I don't have room in my car to take a set of tires/wheels to the track and swap it out.

Also, I'm more interested in just enjoying myself rather than beating any records or competing for times. Yes I like to time my laps, but that's jut to see my personal improvement, not to go against someone else.
For me, having a mix of comfort on the street with some extra edge at the track is what I'd want. Street takes priority over Track for me.
I will probably be getting a set of AD08s or PSSs next once these ContiExtremeSport DW (or something like that, long ass name) tires give out (which will probably be in about a month...)

I plan to sell the OEM 18s for a nice set of APEX wheels.

Many recommend a sq set up, but is that only cause you can rotate the tires or does it also improve handling?
I'm looking at a 18x10 et 25 set up.

Or if I can get the money and a good deal, a set of Volks...

You guys are saying camber plates....which kind?
I really didn't like the idea of changing the suspension or going out of OEM Alignment specs...
If I was going to change the suspension, I was looking at a Dinan Stage 1 or a GC Control Kit


Thank you for the various info everyone [Event though this wasn't even my thread... )

Last edited by persian54; 06-30-2011 at 11:44 AM.
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      06-30-2011, 12:11 PM   #17
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I desided to get Apex 18 inch wheels. Can anyone tell me what is the biggest r- comp. tires we can fit on stock e92 m3 for staggered setup. I prefer staggered for maximum rear grip.
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      06-30-2011, 12:41 PM   #18
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I understand why people go to a square setup but honestly i think staggered feels better. I'm running a Hankook RS3 265 width tire right now on my track wheels and the front feels significant heavier than my ZCP setup. I can't imagine running the same model tire in a 275. To each his own though.

Maybe since i'm used to driving my Elise and it's near perfect steering feel.
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      06-30-2011, 07:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzyj View Post
18x10 all around? do I need spacers for that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 09 AND135I 11 View Post
I desided to get Apex 18 inch wheels. Can anyone tell me what is the biggest r- comp. tires we can fit on stock e92 m3 for staggered setup. I prefer staggered for maximum rear grip.

E9X M3 squared setup would be:

18x10" ET25 APEX ARC-8 with 275/35/18.

No spacers needed, can use factory mounting hardware or a stud conversion. All Extreme summer tires and r-compounds will fit without issue so you have a great selection of tires to choose from.

Recommend tires are:

Extreme Summer:
Hankook RS-3
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1
Nitto NT-05

R-Compound
Nitto NT-01
Toyo R888
Hankook V214
BFG R1
Hoosier R6

E9X M3 Staggered setup would be:

18x9.5" ET22 APEX ARC-8 Front with 265/35/18
18x10.5" ET27 APEX ARC-8 Rear with 285/35/18, 285/30, or 295/30/18

Tire availability is much more limited in these staggers, but the following brands are available. (other tires are available but not recommended).

Hankook RS-3: 265/35/18 and 285/35/18
Nitto NT-05: 265/35/18 and 285/35/18
Yokohama Advan AD08: 265/35/18 and 285/30/18 or 295/35/18


Yohohama Advan A048: 265/35/18 and 285/30/18 or 295/35/18
BFG R1: 265/35/18 and 285/30/18
Toyo R888: 265/35/18 and 285/30/18 or 295/30/18
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      06-30-2011, 11:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
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18x10 all around? do I need spacers for that?
Many feel the staggard set-up is better for our car since it's much more neutral than the E46, which understeered a lot. Our car WILL oversteer pretty easily.

The idea of running the same tire for the street and track is fine, but keep in mind that if you get a nail or worse a blow out on the way to the track, there goes your track day... and you'll be buying at least 2 tires.

If I get a nail in the Vreds, I'll patch it and keep driving on them. NO WAY I'd track a patched/plugged tire.

And you can EASILY fit 3 tires standing up across the back seats, and I'm going to see if I can fit 4 across tomorrow by putting the rear seat down. People have been doing it since the E36 series, and our car is WAY bigger.
Small jack goes on the floor in the back seat area.

Ground Control makes some plates that can be used with the stock struts, but at $500, you might as well get the whole kit.
.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      07-01-2011, 10:27 AM   #21
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Im assuming with a square setup, I have more ability with the track tires to rotate..etc?
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      07-01-2011, 11:37 AM   #22
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I would agree with the suggestions above to do stainless lines, brake fluid, track pads, and track tires. You safely get the most of the car without taxing the parts that you use for the street that gets you home in one piece.

For tires: I suggest the Grand Am spec Continentals in a 275/35/18 on a set of rims that you change at the track. They stick like bubble gum, last longer than the Hoosier R6, and stick just as good in my opinion. The E92 M3s that compete in Grand Am series all run a 275/35/18 square setup and they are not doing it because they can rotate whcih you would be able to do to get the most out of them. You can dial in your suspension to get the car to under-steer or over-steer when you learn more about its tendencies when pushed to the limit.

I have some at $100 each with 75% tread (1-3 heat cycles) if you are interested.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468291

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