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View Poll Results: Do Christians drive BMWs? (Another way of asking Are you...?)
Yes, I am Christian. 151 55.31%
No, I am not Christian. 79 28.94%
I don't know if I am a Christian. 5 1.83%
What is a Christian? 15 5.49%
I was a Christian, but not anymore. 23 8.42%
I would like to be a Christian. 0 0%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

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      02-05-2008, 09:36 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Carolyn0944 View Post
what really frightens you about this?
Frightens me that you are as fanatic as those threatening our freedoms in this country...by saying things like that...
Saying something so assuring to you just by reading a man-made book and listening to the preaching of people who profit from your beliefs...
Frightening is that the evolution gave you the brain that you don't use at all...

I am OK with the believers and people that question things not proven or seen... But to hear and read the lines you wrote are just plain insane...
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      02-05-2008, 11:54 PM   #178
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what really frightens you about this?
I'm scared of you. You're worse than scotty. I mean you are DELUSIONAL.
Before you take this as an insult, go and look up DELUSIONAL in the dictionary.
BIBLE IS A CRUEL, MORALLY OUTDATED, ON PURPOSE AMBIGUOUS, MAN MADE BOOK THAT HAS BEEN REWRITTEN AND RE TRANSLATED MANY TIMES. IT IS DOWNRIGHT RIDICULOUS. AND YOU LIVE ONE AND ONLY LIFE THAT YOU HAVE BY IT. UNBELIEVABLE.

Are 1.5 billion muslim crazy? Jews? Or are you? Think goddamn it, think.
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      02-06-2008, 12:12 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Carolyn0944 View Post
what really frightens you about this?
Stay with it. They don't understand that much, but some of it sinks in. They aren't that bad. Just on the surface they can be crude. Really, I think they are interested in hearing about Christian beliefs. They just don't believe. I actually like most of the people here.
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      02-06-2008, 12:21 AM   #180
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^^Yep, I don't understand and I don't believe. Kinda need evidence to do that. Talking to an invisible man in the sky is not my thing.
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      02-06-2008, 06:39 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944
No you cannot do the sins you mention and expect to have no punishment for such sins...people who are true Christians do not commit these sins; they either never were a Christian or have turned from their faith..God never leaves us, we choose to leave Him; but at the same time, He always accepts us back if we repent..but His forgiveness does not mean that mortal man cannot and does not punish them on earth
I feel that me and you are very close in beliefs in some ways. I believe MOST of what you said, but not the part about "leaving faith". No. As a muslim we believe that EVEN if you are a Muslim you might sin. However, part of being a muslim is ALWAYS being in repentance. We ask for forgiveness many times in a day. We stop to reflect on our day. This is how we keep ourselves pure. If we ever do sin we should be able to recall it and then ask for forgiveness.

There is only one deed as a muslim we should be scared of, and that is the deed we are doing just before we die. The reason is that when we die we cant ask for forgiveness for our last deed!

Back to the point though. You said there are only 2 options: you are true Christian OR you left the faith. As a muslim I say there are 3: you are true Muslim OR you are Muslim but you sinned by accident OR you completely left the faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944
Many of the books in the Bible parallel each other but written by different writers. As for what has been "lost" I cannot answer. You cannot know what was in what we cannot read, only what we can...Anyone who reads and truly studies His word has to realize it is amazing how all the pieces fit
Maybe that's why it does fit together. I think you should check back and see how the Bible was formed in the first place. I think you should also check back and see when the Bible was changed. Look at these quotes:

"The differences among the manuscripts have become great, either through the negligence of some copyists through the perverse audacity of others; they either neglect to check over what they have transcribed, or, in the process of checking, they make additions or deletions as they please." -Origen, early church father

Also: "Some believers, as though from a drinking bout, go so far as to appose themselves and alter the original text of the gospel three four or several times over, and they change it's character to enable them to deny difficulties in face of criticisms." – Celsus

"When my fellow Christians invited me to write letters to them I did so. These the devil's apostles have filled with tares, taking away some things and adding others. For them the woe is reserved. Small wonder then if some have dared to tamper even with the word of the Lord himself, when they have conspired to mutilate my own humble efforts." – Dionysius

Also, just for reference, these complaints go back to the 1st century. It proves that complaints about the Bible alterations isnt some modern invention. It was well known from the past. Apart from that I think you should read up on books banned from the Bible. There are also books that were burned, destroyed and just simply lost because they were writen on papyrus which perishes with time.

I think you should also consider alterations that have been made to the Bible when we find more ancient manuscripts:

Mark (1:1): NIV Bible tells us in footnote that title “Son of God” was inserted later.
Acts: (8:37): NIV Bible removed the words again because “Son of God” was inserted later.
1 John (5:7,8): Only verse in whole of Bible that deals with the trinity. It has been removed because it is later insertion.
I Timothy (3:16): used to say “God” but we now know it is a forgery and has been corrected back to “he”
John (7:53-8:11): again, later additions.
Mark (16:9-20): The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have these verses.
John (3:16): 32 scholars backed by 50 cooperating denominations removed this fabrication.

Please ask yourself if we found more ANCIENT manuscripts than the ones that predate what we already have, how many more changes would we have to make to the Bible? The problem is that it will be hard to find these manuscripts because of the material they were written on. Let's not forget the ones that were burned and destroyed.

Also, take John 3:16 for example. You quoted it but most people now wont accept it as the word of God. It was removed from the Bible by 32 scholars of the highest eminence backed by 50 cooperating denominations. They saw it as an interpolation, not the word of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944
Forgot to add this: I went back & read Ezekiel 23...my Bible does not use the "porno" line that u quoted me..mine states in v.20 she (Oholibah or Jerusalem) doted upon her paramours whose flesh is as the flesh of asses & whose issue is like the issue of horses.
Just because it's reworded differently it doesnt change anything. The meaning is still the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944
It takes a mature Christian to decipher this verse & I don't think most children would understand it, as well as a lot of adults.
That's my point. What would you say if your children asked you what it meant? they obviously wont understand it just by seeing it. Would you explain it was referring to genitals and the emissions? Sorry I should have been clearer though, I was trying to hint that I wouldnt read it to my kids no matter what age they are. I wouldnt read it to any of my family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944
Some very explicit writings are in the Bible but are necessary to show the condition that man was in
Allah tells us in the Quran about fallen nations that used to engage in homosexuality, adultery, fornication, gambling, oppression and every evil you can imagine. Yet the language is always so eloquent and Godly. Definately not on a human level. That's why Ezekiel 23 is classed as pornography and BANNED in South Africa. Look at what Allah says in the Quran:

Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!--Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
Quran (2:79)
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      02-06-2008, 12:04 PM   #182
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^^Yep, I don't understand and I don't believe. Kinda need evidence to do that. Talking to an invisible man in the sky is not my thing.
I'm not going to preach, but....

The Bible is about 1/3 prophecy.....learn what it says will happen in the future and then sit back and watch (if you don't die too soon, then you're screwed). The Bible said that the Jewish people would reestablish their country and would return to their land and it would all happen in one day. On May 14, 1948 Israel was established by the UN in one day.....It also says that one day the whole world will be troubled by Jerusalem - read the paper or watch the news.....The Bible tells us that the majority of the Middle East will one day come against Israel and the coalition will be lead by Russia - what country hates Israel and has vowed to destroy it? - Iran. What country is helping Iran to become a nuclear power - Russia.

That's just a few, and some haven't even come true......

Please do yourself a favor and listen to these.
http://www.khouse.org/6640/CD111-1/
http://www.khouse.org/6640/CD111-2/

These are very academic in nature, and they aren't some guy screaming at you about the glory in heaven that awaits you, brother!!! They are a study that proves the Bible to be correct, and proves that there is no way man could have come up with it. If there is a book that predicts the future with 100% accuracy, then maybe we should pay attention.

I really hope you and maybe some others will take the time to listen. If there is a God, then there is great promise after we die (or if you have rejected him a terrible horrific eternity). If there isn't, then everything just goes black and it's over. At least take the time to decide your own fate.....don't talk to anyone about it, just do your own research, it's your soul on the line. You don't have to tell people you're learning about it, just quietly listen and make up your own mind.

Hey, to be honest, I really aint to keen on talking to an invisible guy in the sky either, but that's what I'm suppose to do bcause I have learned that there is something to it.......This all just can't be some big coincidence.
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      02-06-2008, 12:17 PM   #183
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Here, also watch these. It's a former Muslim terrorist, who set out to prove that the Bible was wrong and Islam was the one true religion. It's very interesting.





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      02-06-2008, 12:24 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by GH32335i View Post
Here, also watch these. It's a former Muslim terrorist, who set out to prove that the Bible was wrong and Islam was the one true religion. It's very interesting.





This reminds me of what FloridaBoy used to do. Instead of engaging in intelligent conversations he would paste youtube videos that show people leaving Islam and going to Christianity. I watch them and find it simply amazing the number of misconceptions about Islam that creep up. Besides, I could post a thousand more links about Jews and Christians coming to Islam.
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      02-06-2008, 12:56 PM   #185
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This reminds me of what FloridaBoy used to do. Instead of engaging in intelligent conversations he would paste youtube videos that show people leaving Islam and going to Christianity. I watch them and find it simply amazing the number of misconceptions about Islam that creep up. Besides, I could post a thousand more links about Jews and Christians coming to Islam.
To each his own. Believe what you believe. This gentleman has much more credibility and more experience than I. He was raised as a muslim and therefore I'm assuming that he knows what he's talking about. Much more so than I do, when it comes to islam. It's futile to argue it out, that's been going on since 600 AD. You and I could argue until we're blue in the face. Fact is, someday we will both die and then we'll learn who was right, and I'm comfortable with that.
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      02-06-2008, 02:42 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by GH32335i View Post
To each his own. Believe what you believe. This gentleman has much more credibility and more experience than I. He was raised as a muslim and therefore I'm assuming that he knows what he's talking about. Much more so than I do, when it comes to islam. It's futile to argue it out, that's been going on since 600 AD. You and I could argue until we're blue in the face. Fact is, someday we will both die and then we'll learn who was right, and I'm comfortable with that.
Really, I understand what you're saying. But I've seen a few of these videos and despite being raised as Muslims it's astonishing how little these people actually know about Islam.
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      02-06-2008, 03:08 PM   #187
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Really, I understand what you're saying. But I've seen a few of these videos and despite being raised as Muslims it's astonishing how little these people actually know about Islam.
I think that could be said about any religion.

I was raised in a Christian home, and now I find myself teaching my parents about it, because I've taken a lot of time to really dig in and learn about it.

Just curious, were you raised in a Muslim home? I have no motive in asking that, just curious.
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      02-06-2008, 05:19 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by GH32335i View Post
I think that could be said about any religion.

I was raised in a Christian home, and now I find myself teaching my parents about it, because I've taken a lot of time to really dig in and learn about it.

Just curious, were you raised in a Muslim home? I have no motive in asking that, just curious.
Good to hear that you have interest. Yeah I was raised in a muslim home
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      02-06-2008, 07:20 PM   #189
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So, boys, which one of you is going to hell? Because you both can't possibly be correct.
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      02-06-2008, 08:44 PM   #190
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I know I'm going to heaven, no doubt about it....and I wouldn't want to wait til I died to find out.....
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      02-06-2008, 10:27 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Carolyn0944 View Post
I know I'm going to heaven, no doubt about it....and I wouldn't want to wait til I died to find out.....
send us a post card when you get there...
By the way, did you receive any post card from anyone that is vacationing up there?
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      02-07-2008, 12:30 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
Stay with it. They don't understand that much, but some of it sinks in. They aren't that bad. Just on the surface they can be crude. Really, I think they are interested in hearing about Christian beliefs. They just don't believe. I actually like most of the people here.
Wow, I can't believe how condescending and patronizing you are. Do you realize how holier than thou you sound?

Scottwww and Carolyn0944, I can't speak for anyone else so I'll just speak for myself. What really get's me is your attitude of religious authority, and the presumption that YOU know what God thinks and wants and what God's plan is for everyone.

You don't.

Studying the Bible and memorizing passages doesn't make you a spokes person for God. The Bible is a book which was written by man thousands of years ago. It's content and meaning are subject to interpretation by the reader just like any other literary work.

If you're not a minister or priest or theologian, don't you think it's rather arrogant to be speaking so authoritatively on the Bible and word of God?

According to your own believe system you are well beyond the age of accountability. Arrogance and self righteousness are not Christian values. Watch what you do and say ... or you know what will happen ...
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      02-07-2008, 12:43 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Frightens me that you are as fanatic as those threatening our freedoms in this country...by saying things like that...
Saying something so assuring to you just by reading a man-made book and listening to the preaching of people who profit from your beliefs...
Frightening is that the evolution gave you the brain that you don't use at all...

I am OK with the believers and people that question things not proven or seen... But to hear and read the lines you wrote are just plain insane...
I'm sorry DR u think as u do; I did not come from a monkey; I am fearfully and wonderfully made, even before my mother knew me, He knew I was to be...I in no way threaten your or anyone's freedom; that is what makes us all unique; we can believe what we want; just as u believe in man and follow the ways of the world; greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world.
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      02-07-2008, 12:47 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
send us a post card when you get there...
By the way, did you receive any post card from anyone that is vacationing up there?
won't be able to send u a postcard; it'll burn up & you'll be jumping around too much
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      02-07-2008, 01:54 AM   #195
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      02-07-2008, 04:22 AM   #196
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So, boys, which one of you is going to hell? Because you both can't possibly be correct.
As a Muslim I can say that we never judge like that. The Quran makes it clear that among the Jews and Christians there are good people that will enter paradise. Therefore, noone can know anything for certain. Even among Muslims there are people who wont enter Heaven because of their sins.
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      02-07-2008, 07:11 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944 View Post
I'm sorry DR u think as u do; I did not come from a monkey; I am fearfully and wonderfully made, even before my mother knew me, He knew I was to be...I in no way threaten your or anyone's freedom; that is what makes us all unique; we can believe what we want; just as u believe in man and follow the ways of the world; greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world.
One thing that differs is that we can believe in proven things or things guided by the laws, another is to blindly believe in things told by someone. That is why people with functional brains call people like you -- fanatics. That is why some like you wrap exploives around their waste and believe they are going to heaven...
Let me guess...you also think that the gas prices are up because China's demand has grown so much in the last 6 years? You also believe that Canadian medical system is evil? You're easily programmed...
I don't mind people believeing in some spirit, fate, and generally in what they want. But the BS you spread here like "even before my mother knew me...", and other Harry Potter crap is damn scary.
Luckily, not majority in this country believes in crap like that and would support freaks like Huckabee in their endevours...
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      02-07-2008, 12:30 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
One thing that differs is that we can believe in proven things or things guided by the laws, another is to blindly believe in things told by someone. That is why people with functional brains call people like you -- fanatics. That is why some like you wrap exploives around their waste and believe they are going to heaven...
Let me guess...you also think that the gas prices are up because China's demand has grown so much in the last 6 years? You also believe that Canadian medical system is evil? You're easily programmed...
I don't mind people believeing in some spirit, fate, and generally in what they want. But the BS you spread here like "even before my mother knew me...", and other Harry Potter crap is damn scary.
Luckily, not majority in this country believes in crap like that and would support freaks like Huckabee in their endevours...
Well I know I hear nearly everyday of another stinkin' Christian blowing themselves up and taking as many innocent people with them!!!
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