BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion
 
PYSPEED
View Poll Results: Do Christians drive BMWs? (Another way of asking Are you...?)
Yes, I am Christian. 151 55.31%
No, I am not Christian. 79 28.94%
I don't know if I am a Christian. 5 1.83%
What is a Christian? 15 5.49%
I was a Christian, but not anymore. 23 8.42%
I would like to be a Christian. 0 0%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-07-2008, 12:37 PM   #199
HEY32G
Lieutenant
 
HEY32G's Avatar
 
Drives: Currently Z4MR Shopping
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 589
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
Good to hear that you have interest. Yeah I was raised in a muslim home
That's what I figured. I was just curious.

Let me ask you, as a Muslim, do you feel that we are living in the "end times" according to your religion? I know we hear Ahmadinejad speaking of the arrival of the Mahdi being right around the corner. Do you agree with that?
HEY32G is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 01:24 PM   #200
hks786
Major General
 
Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

Posts: 5,351
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GH32335i View Post
That's what I figured. I was just curious.

Let me ask you, as a Muslim, do you feel that we are living in the "end times" according to your religion? I know we hear Ahmadinejad speaking of the arrival of the Mahdi being right around the corner. Do you agree with that?
The Holy Prophet (Sallalu alayhi wa'alihi wasalaam) told us the last hour was near even during his lifetime. We are now 1400 years beyond then and thus EVEN closer to the last hour.

I can also confirm that we believe in the Mahdi who will come. We also expect the second coming of Prophet Isa (Jesus) (Alayhi salaam) who will confirm his correct teaching to the people.
__________________
hks786 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 01:44 PM   #201
HEY32G
Lieutenant
 
HEY32G's Avatar
 
Drives: Currently Z4MR Shopping
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 589
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
The Holy Prophet (Sallalu alayhi wa'alihi wasalaam) told us the last hour was near even during his lifetime. We are now 1400 years beyond then and thus EVEN closer to the last hour.

I can also confirm that we believe in the Mahdi who will come. We also expect the second coming of Prophet Isa (Jesus) (Alayhi salaam) who will confirm his correct teaching to the people.
Yes, I know you all are waiting for the Mahdi, and Isa. Btw, we believe that Isa is not the same Jesus that we accept as the messiah....not arguing just pointing that out.

So is it of your belief that this will all transpire w/in our lifetime?
HEY32G is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 04:37 PM   #202
Carolyn0944
Private First Class
 
Drives: 08 335i cv blk sapph/saddle
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pineville, LA

Posts: 169
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Carolyn0944
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
One thing that differs is that we can believe in proven things or things guided by the laws, another is to blindly believe in things told by someone. That is why people with functional brains call people like you -- fanatics. That is why some like you wrap exploives around their waste and believe they are going to heaven...
Let me guess...you also think that the gas prices are up because China's demand has grown so much in the last 6 years? You also believe that Canadian medical system is evil? You're easily programmed...
I don't mind people believeing in some spirit, fate, and generally in what they want. But the BS you spread here like "even before my mother knew me...", and other Harry Potter crap is damn scary.
Luckily, not majority in this country believes in crap like that and would support freaks like Huckabee in their endevours...
When people do terrible deeds such as blowing up buildings, committing murder & mayhem, molesting children, raping women, men or children, abuse of any type, and many many other unspeakable crimes; they are committed by people of various faiths or no faith at all. Any type of sin, either large or small, are NEVER committed by true Christians. What you are insinuating is about 911 and Christians had nothing whatsoever to do with this dispiccable act; but I can't say I don't believe it was not done by Islamics for the benefit of being "rewarded in heaven."

You speak of my believing the gas prices have to do with China; you cannot imagine what I believe for I certainly do not believe this gumbo mumbo. I in no way look down on Canada's medical system; actually I think some areas of Canada's medical system is very good for the common man; they all have benefits and I don't know enough about some of it. It isn't your decision to "mind" if I spiritually believe something. That's up to me. Whether you realize it or not you have a lot of spirituality about you and don't realize it; i.e. when you walk into a room you take a seat on a chair that you "spiritually" believe will hold you up (that is faith); How do you know it doesn't have a broken leg or the wood is weak? When you fly in an airplane you have "faith" that it's going to stay in the sky and not collapse to the ground, do you not? You say a little faith is OK; how much is a little? If you believe none of this to be true and hogwash, what scares you so bad? Or that matter, why do you even log onto a "religion" forum? Why not spend your time reading something of interest to you. Harry Potter doesn't have an ounce of Christianity in it...Witchcraft....

As far as Presidential candidates - we don't hv a lot of choices -
Clinton - can't even be faithful to their own family members let alone to a nation of people; many, many questionable happenings in their Ark background including disappearance of people having business dealings with them they didn't like

Obama- take a look at the church he belongs to; they hv a website but I can't recall it at the moment; have looked at it; we are always called racists as white people when blacks think they can't associate; his church allows no whites as members and MUST give a portion of their money to S Africa and there are several other things that are very strange you can see for yourself.

I hate to tell you but you haven't looked at statistics lately. The majority of Americans profess to believe in Christ and Christianity. That's what this country was founded on, our forefathers who came to this country because they could not practice Christianity in England and split from the church there. Look at your "statistics" above; there are far more Christians signed onto this forum that non believers...Even though the numbers are low...

My Bible tells me that I will be persecuted as a Christian by man but Jesus also said in the beatitudes that "blessed is he that is persecuted for my name sake, for his reward is in heaven." so I expect people like yourself to ridicule, aggrevate and blaspheem Him because if you have not studied His word or come to accept Him as your savior, you can't possibly understand some of this. That's ok, as long as we as Christians can at least put some doubts or questions that you will seek to have answered. It is His greatest desire that everyone comes to know Him as savior, friend, and Lord. Maybe in time, as you age, and learn more, you will seek Him more. However, we never know how long we will live on this earth.
Carolyn0944 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 05:07 PM   #203
hks786
Major General
 
Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

Posts: 5,351
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GH32335i View Post
Yes, I know you all are waiting for the Mahdi, and Isa. Btw, we believe that Isa is not the same Jesus that we accept as the messiah....not arguing just pointing that out.

So is it of your belief that this will all transpire w/in our lifetime?
True. Friend, I dont think there is much that seperates you and me. We accept that Prophet Jesus (AS) was born of a miraculous birth, was the messiah, gave life to the dead and performed miracles with God's permission. We just dont believe that he was God or died for anyone's sins.

Regarding the second part, we dont actually know. As Prophet Jesus (AS) says in the Bible:

"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
Mark (13:32)


The Quran also says:

People will ask you about the Last Hour. Say: "Only Allah has knowledge of it. What will make you understand? It may be that the Last Hour is very near." (Surat al-Ahzab:63)
__________________
hks786 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 06:17 PM   #204
HEY32G
Lieutenant
 
HEY32G's Avatar
 
Drives: Currently Z4MR Shopping
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 589
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
True. Friend, I dont think there is much that seperates you and me. We accept that Prophet Jesus (AS) was born of a miraculous birth, was the messiah, gave life to the dead and performed miracles with God's permission. We just dont believe that he was God or died for anyone's sins.

Regarding the second part, we dont actually know. As Prophet Jesus (AS) says in the Bible:

"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
Mark (13:32)


The Quran also says:

People will ask you about the Last Hour. Say: "Only Allah has knowledge of it. What will make you understand? It may be that the Last Hour is very near." (Surat al-Ahzab:63)
We believe that Jesus was the son of God, and is our Lord and Saviour whereas, like you said, you guys believe he was one of many great prophets. That's one of the differences between our religions.

I find it interesting, like I said before, that both religions sense that we are approaching the end of days. I also find it interesting that we have so much in common in our beliefs as to what will transpire. The difference that I see, is that we view these events to be the worst the world has ever seen and you all believe it to be great and wonderful. It's another difference that we have. I say this, not to insult you or argue, it's just another way in which our beliefs are different.

As a matter of fact, I find that the Jews believe we are in the same period as well. When all 3 major religions are thinking the same thing, maybe we should all pay attention.

Please don't take any comments that I make to be an attempt to insult you, convert you, or anything like that. That's the last thing I would ever want to do. Well okay, I would love for you to become a Christian, but that is not my intent. Just had to be honest there! I'm sure you would love for me to convert to Islam as well. It's just that I have a belief system and you have a belief system and those two systems do not always agree. I find it very interesting to be able to discuss these things with you.

Mind if I ask you another question? if not, what is your view of sharia law?
HEY32G is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 07:58 PM   #205
Carolyn0944
Private First Class
 
Drives: 08 335i cv blk sapph/saddle
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pineville, LA

Posts: 169
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Carolyn0944
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
One thing that differs is that we can believe in proven things or things guided by the laws, another is to blindly believe in things told by someone. That is why people with functional brains call people like you -- fanatics. That is why some like you wrap exploives around their waste and believe they are going to heaven...
Let me guess...you also think that the gas prices are up because China's demand has grown so much in the last 6 years? You also believe that Canadian medical system is evil? You're easily programmed...
I don't mind people believeing in some spirit, fate, and generally in what they want. But the BS you spread here like "even before my mother knew me...", and other Harry Potter crap is damn scary.
Luckily, not majority in this country believes in crap like that and would support freaks like Huckabee in their endevours...
First things first - u & I step out on "faith" everyday, blindly believing things; have u ever walked into a room & walked toward a chair to sit down? You hv "faith" that that chair is going to hold u up when u sit down- You step on a plane having "faith" in someone, a pilot, a mechanic, that that plane will get u where ur are going; there are many instances of these types of faith - God tells us that all we need is faith the size of a mustard seed - that's the end of a pen dot...
Secondly - A true Christian would NEVER even think of committing a ludacris act such as 911 which u r insinuating; but there are deranged people of all "so called religions" that do these dastardly deeds.
Thirdly - I happen to believe Canada's health care sys has some good things in that they insure everyone (sort of like our welfare sys health care) but they hv to wait in line for appts, spec., etc. which I would not like if I had a life-threatening illness that needed attn now
Fourthly - u speak of Huckabee as a freak - I think u need to look at the two top runners right now; there are many many discrepancies in the two of them
that I can't imagine anyone would support them. Like I once told a young male coworker who chased everything in a skirt while he had a wife & two children at home - a man who will betray and/or cheat on the person that should be the most loyal and dear to him; he will do it to anyone! Complete disloyalty...
& Fifth - Harry Potter is witchcraft; no religion in it

Why, if u r an atheist & do not follow any religion r u following this forum; obviously, there are questions u r seeking answers for; when u speak of "manmade books", have u never watched some of the many 100's of documentaries that actually prove many of the Bible stories and happenings by geologists, archeologists, etc. U will never find all of the "human" answers to some of the things that are all God as hard as we look. But for the sake of all this argument in this thread, I'm going to bow out of constant debate. If anyone is interested in knowing more or actually wants to become a Christian and wants to know how, just priv msg me and I'll be glad to talk to u. "I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you, to give you hope and a future and not to harm you." Jeremiah 39:11
Carolyn0944 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 09:10 PM   #206
e90im
Brigadier General
 
e90im's Avatar
 
Drives: f30
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA

Posts: 3,085
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944 View Post
I know I'm going to heaven, no doubt about it....and I wouldn't want to wait til I died to find out.....
How do you know? Any evidence?
What is heaven? Where is it? What do you do in heaven and what do you do for eternity?
You are by far the most delusional person I came across.

Instead of living fully this ONE life we have, you are betting your farm on a fairytale.

If you decide to reply:

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE BIBLE AS IT IS A MAN MADE BOOK LIKE HARRY POTTER.
__________________
'13 f30 328i | P7ACA | S563A | S4DLA | Jet Black |

f30 e92 tt S5 e92 350z e90
e90im is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 10:08 PM   #207
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944 View Post
First things first - u & I step out on "faith" everyday, blindly believing things; have u ever walked into a room & walked toward a chair to sit down? You hv "faith" that that chair is going to hold u up when u sit down- You step on a plane having "faith" in someone, a pilot, a mechanic, that that plane will get u where ur are going; there are many instances of these types of faith - God tells us that all we need is faith the size of a mustard seed - that's the end of a pen dot...
I sit in that chair because -- I have done it before, and because it can be easily proven that it will hold me, and of course, if it does not hold me, not a big deal. In your case, you believe in something written by others with no proof, in something you have never seen, no one have ever and will ever prove to exist.
I am not afraid of the aiplane because, first, I am a pilot, but also because, I am an engineer and can easily prove that the bird will fly from A to B... Trusting the pilot and controller has nothing to do with believing in God or "being HIS child and not my mother's" as fanatics would claim...
Yes, I do believe in faith -- in sense -- what happens it happens... Meaning, if that aiplane craps on us, well...I or no one else could have done anything about it... It is a machine that always has some flaws...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944 View Post
Secondly - A true Christian would NEVER even think of committing a ludacris act such as 911 which u r insinuating; but there are deranged people of all "so called religions" that do these dastardly deeds. ...
Actually, a NORMAL person (of any religion) would never do something like that. But also, normal person (or as you would say "true Christian") would also never attack a sovereign country based on lies, distroy that country and murder tens of thousands...and come up with the term "colleteral damage". Therefore, our leaders are in my eyes noting better than those fanatics that orchestrated the 9/11...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944 View Post
Thirdly - I happen to believe Canada's health care sys has some good things in that they insure everyone (sort of like our welfare sys health care) but they hv to wait in line for appts, spec., etc. which I would not like if I had a life-threatening illness that needed attn now...
Again, you simply proved how easily you can be brainwashed and programmed to believe whatever someone wants you to be...
The "long lines" crap are pure BS about Canadian HC. I know dozens of people that lived up there as short as 10 years and most of them their whole lives... Of course, there are some lines, but hey, I had to wait 9 months for my dermatologist appointment that could have been a cancer...right here in this greatest country...
Not true AT ALL that they have to wait in lines for an emergency procedure...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944 View Post
Fourthly - u speak of Huckabee as a freak - I think u need to look at the two top runners right now; there are many many discrepancies in the two of them
that I can't imagine anyone would support them. Like I once told a young male coworker who chased everything in a skirt while he had a wife & two children at home - a man who will betray and/or cheat on the person that should be the most loyal and dear to him; he will do it to anyone! Complete disloyalty......
What he or she did in the marriege means nothing to me... And what is going on behind in Huckabee's life -- you and I will never know. SO, that is absolutely irrelevant. What is important is what they have to offer for the future of my kids. Hmmm...choose brainwashing and something proven to be taken away from schools, and early childhood brain programming for my children is out of question. My wife takes my kids to church occasionally, and I join them. No objections there, as I want them to be exposed to the religion side of it all. But They will in no case be pre-programmed to believe in existence of something not proven... I will not object if they chose so, but will do my best to open their eyes...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944 View Post
& Fifth - Harry Potter is witchcraft; no religion in it
Same crap, both books are written by humans with absolutely no evidence... Both are fairy tales...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn0944 View Post
Why, if u r an atheist & do not follow any religion r u following this forum; obviously, there are questions u r seeking answers for; when u speak of "manmade books", have u never watched some of the many 100's of documentaries that actually prove many of the Bible stories and happenings by geologists, archeologists, etc. U will never find all of the "human" answers to some of the things that are all God as hard as we look. But for the sake of all this argument in this thread, I'm going to bow out of constant debate. If anyone is interested in knowing more or actually wants to become a Christian and wants to know how, just priv msg me and I'll be glad to talk to u. "I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you, to give you hope and a future and not to harm you." Jeremiah 39:11
I am not an atheist -- I believe in proven things... Show me that the allmighty exists and I will believe in it/ him/her...whatever...
Please show me the proofs that you mentioned above. I have no doubt that some guy, lets say named JC, existed in Betlahem 2000 years ago, and that he helped needy, and that he pissed the Romans and Jews and they ripped him apart and put him on cross and...the end. Prove to me the rest and the end of the story...
Of course, prove to me the whole virgin part and that will be enough...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 11:04 PM   #208
Year's_End
RWD only.
 
Year's_End's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Pete, FL

Posts: 12,294
iTrader: (0)

Lots of Christian Bimmer drivers here. I'm agnostic...
__________________
E92 335i: Space Grey|Coral Red|Aluminum Trim

Future Ride: 2015 Mustang GT Premium |Guard|401A|PP|Recaros|6MT
Year's_End is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 11:54 PM   #209
e90im
Brigadier General
 
e90im's Avatar
 
Drives: f30
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA

Posts: 3,085
iTrader: (8)

^ Me too. That's comforting to hear. It's become a freak fundie show around here.
Attached Images
 
__________________
'13 f30 328i | P7ACA | S563A | S4DLA | Jet Black |

f30 e92 tt S5 e92 350z e90
e90im is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-07-2008, 11:58 PM   #210
e90im
Brigadier General
 
e90im's Avatar
 
Drives: f30
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA

Posts: 3,085
iTrader: (8)

Originally Posted by Carolyn0944
First things first - u & I step out on "faith" everyday, blindly believing things; have u ever walked into a room & walked toward a chair to sit down? You hv "faith" that that chair is going to hold u up when u sit down- You step on a plane having "faith" in someone, a pilot, a mechanic, that that plane will get u where ur are going; there are many instances of these types of faith - God tells us that all we need is faith the size of a mustard seed - that's the end of a pen dot...


Because a chair and airplane have been tested billions of times in the physical world and proven to work.
Your God is a un-testable hypotheis.

Are you familiar with scientific methods at all or do you get your facts from Dumbledore ?
Attached Images
 
__________________
'13 f30 328i | P7ACA | S563A | S4DLA | Jet Black |

f30 e92 tt S5 e92 350z e90
e90im is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-08-2008, 06:29 AM   #211
hks786
Major General
 
Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

Posts: 5,351
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GH32335i View Post
We believe that Jesus was the son of God, and is our Lord and Saviour whereas, like you said, you guys believe he was one of many great prophets. That's one of the differences between our religions.

I find it interesting, like I said before, that both religions sense that we are approaching the end of days. I also find it interesting that we have so much in common in our beliefs as to what will transpire. The difference that I see, is that we view these events to be the worst the world has ever seen and you all believe it to be great and wonderful. It's another difference that we have. I say this, not to insult you or argue, it's just another way in which our beliefs are different.

As a matter of fact, I find that the Jews believe we are in the same period as well. When all 3 major religions are thinking the same thing, maybe we should all pay attention.

Please don't take any comments that I make to be an attempt to insult you, convert you, or anything like that. That's the last thing I would ever want to do. Well okay, I would love for you to become a Christian, but that is not my intent. Just had to be honest there! I'm sure you would love for me to convert to Islam as well. It's just that I have a belief system and you have a belief system and those two systems do not always agree. I find it very interesting to be able to discuss these things with you.

Mind if I ask you another question? if not, what is your view of sharia law?
Thanks for the question, and no I dont feel insulted Can I ask what you mean by "The difference that I see, is that we view these events to be the worst the world has ever seen and you all believe it to be great and wonderful."?

Maybe I wasnt clear. In the Quran and Hadith we have clear signs recorded as to what to expect when the last hour is coming near. However, as I said noone knows the exact date, only Allah himself. These signs arent good things but are bad things. There are signs about behaviour in people.

For example one of the signs is that "slaves will give birth to their masters". That might seem strange but if you look at how kids treat their parents now you will understand. Kids treat their parents with no respect and command them to do what will make them happy.

Regarding Sharia law, I obviously admire it. However, when I say Sharia law I mean the real law and not just traditions and cultural aspects that creep up. I feel that being legalistic isnt something the opposite of what Prophet Jesus (AS) taught, but rather perfectly hand in hand with what he taught....

The Bible even speaks legalistic about adultery, fornication, theft etc. and also makes it clear that people will be judged according to their deeds. That's why God sent commandments in the first place. He knows aswell as we do that if humans are left to their own agendas they will divide in many ways and conflict with eachother. Having one set of laws for everyone to follow is the only way to create peace and harmony.
__________________
hks786 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      02-08-2008, 08:49 AM   #212
HEY32G
Lieutenant
 
HEY32G's Avatar
 
Drives: Currently Z4MR Shopping
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 589
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
^ Me too. That's comforting to hear. It's become a freak fundie show around here.
Can I ask you what you believe? Where do you think that humans came from? What do you think happens when you die?

And yes, I would like hard facts to back up what you believe, because I'm sorry I just can't go by someone's theory. Sorry, just can't take what you say on "faith" or gullibility....I need some facts, back up your beliefs for me if you would.

And one other thing, how do I live my life any different than you do? Just because I'm a Christian, how is my life being wasted as you seem to think? How am I not living this one life that I've been given to any less degree than you're living yours?

Please give us some good answers, because all you're doing is just crappin' on everyone else. Please tell us what you think.
HEY32G is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-08-2008, 09:32 AM   #213
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GH32335i View Post
Can I ask you what you believe? Where do you think that humans came from? What do you think happens when you die?

And yes, I would like hard facts to back up what you believe, because I'm sorry I just can't go by someone's theory. Sorry, just can't take what you say on "faith" or gullibility....I need some facts, back up your beliefs for me if you would.



Please give us some good answers, because all you're doing is just crappin' on everyone else. Please tell us what you think.
Let me jump in here with my opinion...
1) Humans, like everything else came from another form through a PROVEN evolution process.
2) Thar "another form" -- the first, most primitive one, was created there when conditions were most favorable for it to exist, again, through the condition evolution...
3) That part -- the "initial creation" we don't know fully yet, but we're looking into it -- INSTEAD of resorting to the magic, called God, that have created it all and move on... You see, every time there is an obstacle, some resort to God -- God help us...instead of finding the roots of the cause and fixing it...WRONG.
4) What happens when we die -- what do you mean by that? We die and the end. Nothing happens after that, why would you expect something to happen??? The whole heaven/hell crap is again the fictional talk to threaten/motivate/control the masses -- "If you don't support this, you go to hell..." "If you blow yourself up, you go to heaven and..." Plain BS...

It is simple, I believe in things that can be proven to me and things that I have experienced (hence the chair sitting thing from Carolyn...). I don't believe in stories from Bible, or the PPT presentations of the WMD in Iraq, or even unproven crap on this forum (specifically the 335 crowd)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GH32335i View Post
And one other thing, how do I live my life any different than you do? Just because I'm a Christian, how is my life being wasted as you seem to think? How am I not living this one life that I've been given to any less degree than you're living yours? .
Your life may be as fulfilling as anyone elses and more... On the other hand, the fanatics (i.e. Carolyn-alike) do waste their one-shot time on this Earth with the beliefs and dedication to something they believe in that has overtaken the reality for them...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-08-2008, 09:56 AM   #214
HEY32G
Lieutenant
 
HEY32G's Avatar
 
Drives: Currently Z4MR Shopping
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 589
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Let me jump in here with my opinion...
1) Humans, like everything else came from another form through a PROVEN evolution process.
2) Thar "another form" -- the first, most primitive one, was created there when conditions were most favorable for it to exist, again, through the condition evolution...
3) That part -- the "initial creation" we don't know fully yet, but we're looking into it -- INSTEAD of resorting to the magic, called God, that have created it all and move on... You see, every time there is an obstacle, some resort to God -- God help us...instead of finding the roots of the cause and fixing it...WRONG.
4) What happens when we die -- what do you mean by that? We die and the end. Nothing happens after that, why would you expect something to happen??? The whole heaven/hell crap is again the fictional talk to threaten/motivate/control the masses -- "If you don't support this, you go to hell..." "If you blow yourself up, you go to heaven and..." Plain BS...

It is simple, I believe in things that can be proven to me and things that I have experienced (hence the chair sitting thing from Carolyn...). I don't believe in stories from Bible, or the PPT presentations of the WMD in Iraq, or even unproven crap on this forum (specifically the 335 crowd)...



Your life may be as fulfilling as anyone elses and more... On the other hand, the fanatics (i.e. Carolyn-alike) do waste their one-shot time on this Earth with the beliefs and dedication to something they believe in that has overtaken the reality for them...
That's all fine and good. Fact is you gave me no evidence whatsoever for your beliefs.

You might have an interest in this. The following is an ex-agnostic/atheist who wanted to actually prove all this that you guys are espousing. He couldn't do it and this is a presentation he gives regarding the Bible. Like I've said before listen if you want, or don't. You guys want evidence, and I'm offering some. http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP041/

And do me a favor, stop associating Christians with fanatical muslims who carry out homicide missions. The last ones in Baghdad were down syndrome females that the fanatical muslims used to do their dirty work. You know using that when debating Christianity doesn't even qualify as a stretch.
HEY32G is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-08-2008, 10:00 AM   #215
e90im
Brigadier General
 
e90im's Avatar
 
Drives: f30
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA

Posts: 3,085
iTrader: (8)

GH32335i

Can I ask you what you believe?

I like to use term trust rather than believe. Trust is when you form an opinion based on evidence and critical thinking.
Example: I have never been in Australia. Am I supposed to think that until I go there it might not exist? All the maps and satellite images could be a part of global conspiracy.
Here comes critical thinking and Occam’s razor: which alternative is more likely? What would be the motive for a conspiracy? Who would benefit from such a scam? Therefore I conclude that Australia is real based on incredible amount of data that supports that claim.



Where do you think that humans came from?

Humans are made from “star stuff” is what current science tells us. It is backed up by a significant amount of evidence (available in your local library, bookstore and online). We evolved from a cosmic soup over billions of years. Now, that’s a long time.

If Universe is 15 billion years old, and if we shrink it to 1 calendar year, big bang occurred on January 1st, first humans appeared in last 15 seconds on December 31st. We are very young species.



What do you think happens when you die?

I think that, based on what we know, we die and game over for our concious self. That is what makes this life so precious. Think of how many people will never be born, due to genetic roulette!! We are incredibly lucky to have been born and alive.

And yes, I would like hard facts to back up what you believe, because I'm sorry I just can't go by someone's theory. Sorry, just can't take what you say on "faith" or gullibility....I need some facts, back up your beliefs for me if you would.

You want hard facts??? You can’t believe in some “theory”??? You??? You believe in a man made fairytale and live your life by it!!! If you were interested in hard facts, you wouldn’t be religious.

You feel that all answers should be available NOW. If science hasn’t figured out yet answers to EVERYTHING, it is not worth your while. YOU NEED A QUICK COMFORTING FIX.

Devine fallacy:
If it’s too complex and currently not understood, god must have done it.

Science is not a body of knowledge, it is a way of thinking critically, it’s about TESTING hypothesis until it becomes a theory, it is about predictability of experiments, it is everything religion is NOT. Every scientific theory can be disproved. As a matter of fact we are encouraged to take a swing at it. If you are able to find holes in it, you’ll probably get a Nobel prize. (see Einstein/Newton/gravity)




And one other thing, how do I live my life any different than you do? Just because I'm a Christian, how is my life being wasted as you seem to think? How am I not living this one life that I've been given to any less degree than you're living yours?

1. You base your values on a morally outdated fairytale

2. You (I assume) spend a moderate amount of time and money to support your church

3. You live your life in fear of punishment (hell)

4. You are heavily influenced by the guilt trip propagated by organized religion, which is a marketing business exploiting the gullible

5. You believe in afterlife, which makes this life far less valuable

6. You might be wrong about your deity choice and still end up in hell

And, by the way, you never replied directly to my post about Pascal’s wager and are 1.5 billion muslims delusional? Jews? Hindu?
__________________
'13 f30 328i | P7ACA | S563A | S4DLA | Jet Black |

f30 e92 tt S5 e92 350z e90

Last edited by e90im; 02-08-2008 at 10:28 AM.
e90im is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-08-2008, 10:02 AM   #216
Railgun
Major
 
Railgun's Avatar
 
Drives: FD, CBR600RR, R56 JCW
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London

Posts: 1,362
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via ICQ to Railgun Send a message via AIM to Railgun Send a message via MSN to Railgun Send a message via Yahoo to Railgun Send a message via Skype™ to Railgun
Why wouldn't I?

Oh wait...you mean religion...that's just my name.
Railgun is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      02-08-2008, 10:17 AM   #217
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GH32335i View Post
And do me a favor, stop associating Christians with fanatical muslims who carry out homicide missions. The last ones in Baghdad were down syndrome females that the fanatical muslims used to do their dirty work. You know using that when debating Christianity doesn't even qualify as a stretch.
OK, you see the fanatical muslims strapping the bombs around their waste and killing innocent (but targeting the occupators) your way, or you view the fanatics that hijacked those planes and killed 3000 that way...

But you fail to see the same thing of pushing the button and sending the Tomahawk into the TV builting and killing innocent workers (Belgrade, Serbia, April 19, 1999) -- it is the Christian fanaticism! You fail to see that the Christian fanatics do it every day in Iraq, then wash their bloody hands by calling it a Colleteral Damage...
You fail to realize that it has been done for years from the Christian side. Mass murders from the WW2 to the wars in former Yugoslavia were done by Christians (fanatics).
The whole slavery was done by concious Christians...

What you fail to realize is that just because they are Muslims, but do exactly the same as we do (and openly admit their intentions, where we hide then behind most of the time NON EXISTING causes) -- it all makes it much worse...

Same as you fail to realize and clearly show above with your links and by saying that "there is absolutely no evidence to prove the evolution process". You have a lot of reading to do....
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-08-2008, 10:26 AM   #218
HEY32G
Lieutenant
 
HEY32G's Avatar
 
Drives: Currently Z4MR Shopping
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 589
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
OK, you see the fanatical muslims strapping the bombs around their waste and killing innocent (but targeting the occupators) your way, or you view the fanatics that hijacked those planes and killed 3000 that way...

But you fail to see the same thing of pushing the button and sending the Tomahawk into the TV builting and killing innocent workers (Belgrade, Serbia, April 19, 1999) -- it is the Christian fanaticism! You fail to see that the Christian fanatics do it every day in Iraq, then wash their bloody hands by calling it a Colleteral Damage...
You fail to realize that it has been done for years from the Christian side. Mass murders from the WW2 to the wars in former Yugoslavia were done by Christians (fanatics).
The whole slavery was done by concious Christians...

What you fail to realize is that just because they are Muslims, but do exactly the same as we do (and openly admit their intentions, where we hide then behind most of the time NON EXISTING causes) -- it all makes it much worse...

Same as you fail to realize and clearly show above with your links and by saying that "there is absolutely no evidence to prove the evolution process". You have a lot of reading to do....
Gee, I could've sworn it was the US Army that's in Iraq.

Did you listen to my evidence that I provided for you? I'm not even asking you to read, I'm just asking you to listen to about an ho0ur and a half presentation. You guys are all saying give me evidence, but when it's provided, you choose to ignore it.

I guess what you're saying is that if atheists were in charge there would be no war, is that it? So if someone comes up and punches you in the face as an atheist, you wouldn't do anything? When Hitler wants to gas people in an oven, you would just let it go.....until it became your turn, then what would you do?

You need to wise up to the reality of human beings....there will always be war, there will always be a need to defend yourself.
HEY32G is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-08-2008, 10:32 AM   #219
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GH32335i View Post
Gee, I could've sworn it was the US Army that's in Iraq.

Did you listen to my evidence that I provided for you? I'm not even asking you to read, I'm just asking you to listen to about an ho0ur and a half presentation. You guys are all saying give me evidence, but when it's provided, you choose to ignore it.

I guess what you're saying is that if atheists were in charge there would be no war, is that it? So if someone comes up and punches you in the face as an atheist, you wouldn't do anything? When Hitler wants to gas people in an oven, you would just let it go.....until it became your turn, then what would you do?

You need to wise up to the reality of human beings....there will always be war, there will always be a need to defend yourself.

1) You can call it the US army or whatever you want -- in my eyes the wars and killing innocent (weather a single innocent or tens of thousands), especially for no clear reason, is the same fanatical thing, no matter who does it...

2) I WILL listen to the link you provided when I get a minute, probably tomorrow...

3) I am not sure how you got to the idea that if no one believed in God, there would be no wars... I did not mean that way at all...

4) The key is exactly that -- DEFEND! Again -- it all depends how you wish to view it. IMO, the US has not fought the defensive war since the WW2. That makes us the occupators, and the "bad" guys are defending themselves and their territory. Therefore, you also acknoledge that there is nothing wrong with defending yourself...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-08-2008, 10:37 AM   #220
Neurorad
Major
 
Neurorad's Avatar
 
Drives: 330xi 6MT Blk/Blk SP
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location, Location

Posts: 1,212
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
GH32335iAnd one other thing, how do I live my life any different than you do? Just because I'm a Christian, how is my life being wasted as you seem to think? How am I not living this one life that I've been given to any less degree than you're living yours? [/color]

[b]1. You base your values on a morally outdated fairytale

2. You (I assume) spend a moderate amount of time and money to support your church

3. You live your life in fear of punishment (hell)

4. You are heavily influenced by the guilt trip propagated by organized religion, which is a marketing business exploiting the gullible

5. You believe in afterlife, which makes this life far less valuable

6. You might be wrong about your deity choice and still end up in hell
I have to disagree about some of these. 'Spirituality' should be an important part of everyone's life, even atheists.

A quote from Thich Nhat Hanh:

Spirituality is something we can cultivate. To be spiritual means to be solid, calm, and peaceful, and to be able to look deeply inside and around us. It means having the capacity to handle our afflictions -- our anger, craving, despair, and discrimination. It is being able to see the nature of interbeing between people, nations, races, and all forms of life. Spirituality is not a luxury anymore; we need to be spiritual in order to overcome the difficulties of our time.

'Christian values' are based on love, compassion, and kindness, as told by Jesus Christ. This is the core of Christianity, and every other major religion. It's imperitive that religious leaders (ministers, rabbis, clerics, etc), and those intelligent enough to realize start pushing this, rather than emphasizing differences.
Neurorad is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:56 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST