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      06-28-2011, 03:44 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by jonasaurus View Post
Really? Any Porsche?
Yes, any
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      06-28-2011, 03:50 PM   #68
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bang for buck and ease of use daily and on track M3 over C2S hands down. you have to go to GT3 to get anything from porsche worth paying the extra $$$ for that M3 can give with just a few tweaks. i think right now, best bang for buck in porsche terms is 997.1 GT3 RS. rarer than GT3, no sunroof, and nice wide a$$. They are in the sub 90K range if you shop.
If you are concerned about bang for your buck, then for sure a 911 is not a good fit for you. There is a fat premium with porsches.

On a more general note, I can understand if a porsche is not for you if you throughly test drive a car (at least to have a good idea of what the car is about). I can respect that. But, it sounds like everyone here just test drove a porsche for maybe only 5 minutes. Like what others have said, "PDK does hold gears in Sport Plus," so it sounds like people have been test driving these porsches without sport chrono or in sport plus mode. That is equivalent to judging a m car without hitting the M button. It makes a world of difference, especially with the m5 or m6.

and the 911, especially the 997.2, is significantly faster than the m3. You are lying to yourself if you believe otherwise because there is a lot of information out there that confirms that.
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      06-28-2011, 03:52 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
You go crazy on the options list on a new 997.2S and you can easily hit $110k. You are quoting a used car price..which I agree, if I was ever to buy another PCar again I would buy used. I've never seen a car that takes such a massive depreciation hit as the 997 did.

Dave
why just a PCar? I did it for my M3 too. It makes too much sense to buy preowned.

BTW, roughly how much dep. hit did you take your first year? In % or $ would be good...
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      06-28-2011, 03:53 PM   #70
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now now you two... no need to fight about P cars being great or not great...
Love watching JC and Shift@Red go at it...
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      06-28-2011, 04:01 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
now now you two... no need to fight about P cars being great or not great...
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Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
Love watching JC and Shift@Red go at it...
You guys make me feel like I'm back in high school .
Just 'ignored' him instead, so I'm back . You can't reason with a fanboy, so any discussion eventually escalates to name calling (what he probably engaged in by your comments ), warnings, etc. I know better .
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      06-28-2011, 04:01 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by christopherchenm View Post
P sales always claim that their cars hold good value
values plummeted so fast on the 997 because there are so many variants.

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Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
I can see why . You can also learn to drive 'properly' a turbo Civic that'd blow both cars out of the water, but that doesn't mean it'd feel right. Remember it's not how fast you go, but how you go fast . I wouldn't buy ANY 911 just because the way it handles, but that's just me. As somebody said, it's overrated, and simply not worth what they cost, but that's my opinion. And if the M3s interior is crappy, the Porsche's is downright rental material. The upcoming one will be much better, resembling the Panamera and new Cayenne, but the current layout (even with full leather), is just crap. But also old as hell, so understandable. The M3 is nothing to write home about, as I said, but much better than any 911. The 911 is just a status car, with the possible exception of the GT3, which I haven't driven yet (but it's still rear engined), so can't comment on that one.
As far as the trannies, I clearly said I'm not familiar with them since I'd never buy an automatic sports car, but glad it also has a manual mode. I knew better paddles were available, but don't know if they change gears like Ferraris and M3s. I'd be nice if they do. But I honestly don't care . Since I don't want a pissing contest with a fanboy, signing off this thread .
I hope you don't call yourself an enthusiast, because that is a very ignorant statement. People like you just don't get it...
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      06-28-2011, 04:03 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
Love watching JC and Shift@Red go at it...
Yeah, it's entertaining. The bottom line is that I went in expecting to want to walk out with a P car, and I'm actually somewhat disappointed that I didn't want to. If that's not an honest review, I don't know what is.

Perhaps I should look into a used GT-R as a second car, but I kind of don't see the point of having a second sports car if I'm not going to track it. When would I ever drive it? Seems like a poor financial choice.
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      06-28-2011, 04:06 PM   #74
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I hope you don't call yourself an enthusiast, because that is a very ignorant statement. People like you just don't get it...
Funny because that statement applies to you to the 'T'. You need to drive some more. And go back to your high school physics books so you understand what 65% of vehicle weight and engine hanging behind the rear axle does to your handling feel. Another ignored.

With all the driving 'experts' here who I could bet my house they haven't even driven the cars in question, I'm signing off after all .

Last edited by elp_jc; 06-28-2011 at 04:24 PM.
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      06-28-2011, 04:28 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
why just a PCar? I did it for my M3 too. It makes too much sense to buy preowned.
I like leasing
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      06-28-2011, 05:06 PM   #76
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[....] the 997.2, is significantly faster than the m3. You are lying to yourself if you believe otherwise because there is a lot of information out there that confirms that.
A ~10 bhp per ton advantage is never going to give you a significantly faster car...@ ~0.4 secs faster to 100mph it simply doesn't feel much faster. I'm a long time Porsche fan (I've owned 8) and had the gen 2 997 s for a whole day and I loved driving it but there is no point in kidding yourself that its anything other than marginally quicker than the M3 (in a straight line).
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      06-28-2011, 05:45 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
why just a PCar? I did it for my M3 too. It makes too much sense to buy preowned.

BTW, roughly how much dep. hit did you take your first year? In % or $ would be good...
Well my 997S MSRPd for $93K and 2.5 years later I sold the car for $54k. Just 56% of its value retained. Show me a E92 M3 that MSRPd for $72K in 2008 that sold for $40k, none that I know.

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      06-28-2011, 06:00 PM   #78
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Yes, any
Hmmmm, Carrera GT for me
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      06-28-2011, 06:06 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
Well my 997S MSRPd for $93K and 2.5 years later I sold the car for $54k. Just 56% of its value retained. Show me a E92 M3 that MSRPd for $72K in 2008 that sold for $40k, none that I know.

Dave
You seem to be leaving out the mileage, which is a key consideration. I know of some M3s that reatailed for $72K in 2008 and Sold for 40K but had around 50K miles. How many miles did you put on in 2.5 years?
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      06-28-2011, 06:10 PM   #80
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430 is not bad, only about 5K for major service.

355 is 8K for major service.

For reference, GT2 major service is 2400 bucks.
355 - engine out belt service typically runs closer to 10K

F430 - Like you mentioned -belt service is around 5K but if you find a good Ferrari shop (not a Ferrari dealer) you can get it done for less than $3500

This is done every 5 years but Ferrari recently changed this and said, "This needs to be done every 3 years now." Yeah, BS!
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      06-28-2011, 06:17 PM   #81
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If you are concerned about bang for your buck, then for sure a 911 is not a good fit for you. There is a fat premium with porsches.

On a more general note, I can understand if a porsche is not for you if you throughly test drive a car (at least to have a good idea of what the car is about). I can respect that. But, it sounds like everyone here just test drove a porsche for maybe only 5 minutes. Like what others have said, "PDK does hold gears in Sport Plus," so it sounds like people have been test driving these porsches without sport chrono or in sport plus mode. That is equivalent to judging a m car without hitting the M button. It makes a world of difference, especially with the m5 or m6.

and the 911, especially the 997.2, is significantly faster than the m3. You are lying to yourself if you believe otherwise because there is a lot of information out there that confirms that.
I test drove for around 20 minutes on empty large roads, most of that time spent in Sport Plus mode. Sport Plus does not hold the gear when you floor it. It will hold the gear if not floored, though. For instance, I had it in manual mode (with the Sport Plus button clicked in) and shifted up to 4th gear when going 45 mph. Then I floored it in 4th from 45 mph and it automatically downshifted to 2nd gear without me touching anything on the steering wheel. I'm positive it was in Sport Plus mode (it was the little button that was I believe second from the left on the bottom of the center console).

Additionally, I shifted just before redline to avoid hitting any sort of rev limiter or damaging the engine, but I was informed by both the salesman, the sales manager, and a technician that it would have automatically shifted up to the next gear.

Perhaps there is a way to turn automatic downshifting and upshifting off -- I'm not sure. What I am sure of, however, is that I wouldn't want to. That transmission is perfect in my opinion.
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      06-28-2011, 06:26 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari4evr1 View Post
355 - engine out belt service typically runs closer to 10K

F430 - Like you mentioned -belt service is around 5K but if you find a good Ferrari shop (not a Ferrari dealer) you can get it done for less than $3500

This is done every 5 years but Ferrari recently changed this and said, "This needs to be done every 3 years now." Yeah, BS!
I always thought that Ferrari is the most expensive car to maintain before owning my SL
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      06-28-2011, 06:46 PM   #83
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If you are concerned about bang for your buck, then for sure a 911 is not a good fit for you. There is a fat premium with porsches.

On a more general note, I can understand if a porsche is not for you if you throughly test drive a car (at least to have a good idea of what the car is about). I can respect that. But, it sounds like everyone here just test drove a porsche for maybe only 5 minutes. Like what others have said, "PDK does hold gears in Sport Plus," so it sounds like people have been test driving these porsches without sport chrono or in sport plus mode. That is equivalent to judging a m car without hitting the M button. It makes a world of difference, especially with the m5 or m6.

and the 911, especially the 997.2, is significantly faster than the m3. You are lying to yourself if you believe otherwise because there is a lot of information out there that confirms that.
everyone should be concerned about bang for their buck. only a fool would pay more money for less value in a product. I would not have bought two 997 GT3's in the past 4 years had they not been a good value for my interests and use of the car. A 911 is an excellent fit in its market range for value. name another sports car in the sub 150k range that matches a GT3? same goes for the M3 at 75k. in this case, the M3 is compared to a 911 C2S in the 90k range and I think its better value. With the GT3 compare them to any entry level V8 supercar or even V10 supercar and its price is quite attractive for what you get.

OP was comparing New C2S to trading in his 3 month old M3. I think in this case, M3 is way better value considering the loss he would take from making the swap for a quite negligible difference in the environment he tends to drive his cars in.
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      06-28-2011, 06:53 PM   #84
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everyone should be concerned about bang for their buck. only a fool would pay more money for less value in a product.
Agreed!

Quote:
A 911 is an excellent fit in its market range for value. name another sports car in the sub 150k range that matches a GT3?
Does the Ariel Atom count as a sports car?

Quote:
OP was comparing New C2S to trading in his 3 month old M3. I think in this case, M3 is way better value considering the loss he would take from making the swap for a quite negligible difference in the environment he tends to drive his cars in.
+1
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      06-28-2011, 07:06 PM   #85
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try daily driving an Ariel Atom and tell me how that goes. I think more along the lines of a Z06/ZR1, F458, R8 V10, Gallardo, SLS. Z06 may be cheaper but seats are too soft, suspension is too soft, and the interior really belongs in lesser chevrolets.
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      06-28-2011, 07:12 PM   #86
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I have driven a 997.2S and it did feel quicker than my M3... not a lot quicker but quicker. I really did notice the rear weight bias and didn't love it. Maybe it is something you get use to or learn to deal with but, IMO, it is less than ideal. The fact that Porsche needs to put 305s (or whatever) on the rear and tweak the hell out of the chassis so that you don't die at the track says the layout is less than ideal. Having said that, they have done wonders tuning out what I think is an inherent flaw. The other issue is that the Pcar is not as comfortable by a long stretch as a DD. If it were a weekend only car then great but as a daily it would not be practical or comfortable enough. But, with all of that said, I could see me owning one someday just because.

Now, I have driven in a GT3 RS and that thing is on another planet. It was the most amazing experience and that was from just sitting in the passenger seat. The sound, the feel, the holy crap I'm gonna die but yet the car pulls through a corner that physics says it shouldn't experience is just beyond. If money were no object, the GT3 RS would be my toy.
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      06-28-2011, 07:24 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari4evr1 View Post
355 - engine out belt service typically runs closer to 10K

F430 - Like you mentioned -belt service is around 5K but if you find a good Ferrari shop (not a Ferrari dealer) you can get it done for less than $3500
I was quoted 8K by a few dealerships when we were shopping for 355, so we ended up getting the 996 GT2. Something about 8K is a lot of bags and shoes by the mrs...

Shame, because I like the look of the 355 the best over 360, 430, and even the Italia.
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      06-28-2011, 07:49 PM   #88
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Hard for me to believe OP felt the M3 handles better than the 911...the M3 is numb feeling compared to the 911...911 much more precise and faster too...but M3 is easier to drive and alot more comfortable...911 is a true sports car whereas the M3 is a very nice compromise.

My ultimate weekend car is the GT3 RS...but I wouldnt track it cause I would be too scared...takes alot of skill to drive the GT3 RS and you can crash that thing alot easier than most cars.
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