BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-26-2011, 11:04 PM   #1
Erhan
Colonel
 
Erhan's Avatar
 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 2,466
iTrader: (0)

Can someone "teach" me the 911 world?

So I'm thinking of cutting the M3 by half and get 1 daily and 1 weekend/track car. For daily, I'm thinking of Mini Cooper S.

But my question is for the weekend/track car. I want something with less compromises then the M3.. I've 3 cars in mind: Z4 M Coupe, Cayman S, or 911. Not really looking into Z4 MC. I had one before, brilliant car, but I'm kinda sick of BMWs. I wanna try a car that has the engine not at the front.. I will test drive a Z06 at some point of time, but as I said, I want to experience the mid/rear engine setup.

I'm not going to buy brand new, since I want to track this car. I haven't decided on the budget yet, since I will buy this car next spring (2012). Reason being winter sucks here (Seattle) and there are no track events... The budget probably somewhere around 30k-45k. For the given money, I think I can buy a never Cayman S then a 911... My only problem with Cayman S is that I've read in reviews it is very easy to drive fast. This is one of the things I don't like about the M3... too easy to drive and gives you false ego

I gathered some questions and I'd appreciate if I can get some answers to kick start my knowledge about the P-cars. I know there are other forums for Porsche (6speed etc) but I want to get some less biased info from this forum first.

1. I believe the new 991 will be available for 2012? So is it right to assume that 991 will cause 997 prices to come down further?
2. I've heard 997.1 and 997.2 but I've no idea what the difference is.. Can someone explain?
3. I've read that 996 has some engine related issues, but then I read they're very robust as well... How is the reliability of 996, 997.1, and 997.2?
4. I'm particularly interested by 2S, but I'd be ok with 2 as well. Is the difference between 2S and 2 just the engine?
5. What are the must have performance related options in P-car world?
6. Are there any common problems in 996, 997.1 and 997.2? (like sub-frame issues in E46 M3).
7. I know mileage info alone doesn't mean much (city/hwy/track driven miles make difference), but assuming normal use, should I stay under certain miles?
8. What should I expect in terms of maintenance? I'm thinking of manual. Is it easy to change oil (it is easy in the M3)?

thanks!
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Erhan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2011, 12:30 AM   #2
Dave07997S
Colonel
 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3 ZCP Coupe
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Playa del Rey, CA

Posts: 2,499
iTrader: (1)

First off in your price range you at best will get into a 997.1 non S 3.6L, if you can get into a 3.8L S it would be one with a lot of mileage on it.



1. I believe the new 991 will be available for 2012? So is it right to assume that 991 will cause 997 prices to come down further?

Who knows, the price deprecitation on PCars is already pretty massive the way it is.2.

I've heard 997.1 and 997.2 but I've no idea what the difference is.. Can someone explain?

This is for the non S and S. Does not include the multitude of other 997 models ala GT3, GT2 etc. The 997.1 is from 2005-2008 with very minimal changes. In 2009 they added DI as well as a mild freshning of mainly adding new front/rear fasicas with LED lightning. The suspension was retuned for the
cars and the US finally got a LSD as well as the sport -20mm suspension. Oh and a biggy..PDK arrives. Numerous navigation changes..etc
.


3. I've read that 996 has some engine related issues, but then I read they're very robust as well... How is the reliability of 996, 997.1, and 997.2?

You are talking about the RMS, this has been pretty much taken care of on cars that were built late in 2005. I found my 997.1S to be extremely reliable. 3 years of ownership and the only thing that went wrong was a bad rear TPS.

4. I'm particularly interested by 2S, but I'd be ok with 2 as well. Is the difference between 2S and 2 just the engine?

No, the S also includes PASM as well as 19" wheels among other options. By the time you option out a non S to have Xenons, PASM and the sort the price is darn near a S. I felt the extra bottom end of the 3.8L, however, the 3.6L was no slouch and it seemed to rev quicker.

5. What are the must have performance related options in P-car world?

Since you are buying used get it with as much options as you like. As the options bring minimum cost increase on used values. You will see X51 cars go for just a few thousand more than non X51 cars, yet it was a $14k option. I would go with an S, they are pretty much awesome right out of the box. There are no real performance options for these cars other than the X51 package, it wasn't until .2 versions came out with the LSD and sport suspension did it broaden up the performance option list.

6. Are there any common problems in 996, 997.1 and 997.2? (like sub-frame issues in E46 M3).

Other than the RMS issue of the 996 cars and very early 997.1 cars none that I can think of..other than you go through rear tires like an elephant goes through peanuts. Also, servicing is very expensive..find a good indie.

7. I know mileage info alone doesn't mean much (city/hwy/track driven miles make difference), but assuming normal use, should I stay under certain miles?

You can find a lot of garage queens out there, I have seen 2006 997S's with only12k miles on the clock. How would you know how many track miles are on the car? I would do a check with a PCar dealer to check the rev range of the motor..how many ignitions from range 1-4 etc. With the amount of money you want to pay expect a higher mileage example.

8. What should I expect in terms of maintenance? I'm thinking of manual. Is it easy to change oil (it is easy in the M3)?

The Porsche is the easiest car in the world to work on, I installed a full exhaust system with the car on phone books to lift the rear end up just a tad. This included the headers, cats and cans all in 3.5 hrs. Oil is just as easy as an E46 M3, which I owned 2 of them as well.

thanks

You're welcome

I am sure I missed a few things though..I loved my 997.1S, but I just think my E92 M3 is just a better fit for me at this time.

Dave
__________________
2013 M3 Coupe-MR/BLK ZCP, ACM test pipes, BPM Stg2 dev. tune and Megan catback, AFE Stg2. with C/F elbow
Previous rides: 2011 M3 Coupe-MR/Blk
2007 Porsche 997C2S Speed Yellow/Blk sport seats
2004 BMW M3 Imola/Blk

Last edited by Dave07997S; 06-28-2011 at 10:40 PM.
Dave07997S is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2011, 06:25 AM   #3
shchow
Second Lieutenant
 
shchow's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 CTS-V sedan, black raven
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hainesport, New Jersey

Posts: 294
iTrader: (0)

Did you consider Lotus?
They would fall into your price range and are supposedly phenomenal track/weekend toys...
__________________
Current rides: 2010 CTS-V sedan, black raven; 2010 Cadillac Escalade ESV, black raven
Gone but not forgotten: 2008 M5, metallic sapphire black, SMG; 2004 645ci, metallic sapphire black, SMG
shchow is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2011, 06:56 AM   #4
PhillyNate
ENTHUSIAST
 
PhillyNate's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Toyota GT-86
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Philadelphia

Posts: 2,029
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Dave, very informative and comprehensive write up. I'm not even in the market anymore and I thank you.
__________________

"what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson
2014 Whiteout Toyota GT-86 6mt(Presently enjoying WAY more than anticipated)
2011 Alpine White BMW M3 6mt ZCP Coupe(forced retirement 06/06/14)
2008 Alpine White BMW 328i 6mt Coupe(retired 06/21/11
)
PhillyNate is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2011, 08:28 AM   #5
saeyedoc
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2012 Cayman S, 2012 Panamera
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX

Posts: 539
iTrader: (0)

$45k may get you a 987.2 ('09 or newer) Cayman S by next year, possibly CPO. They are currently in the low to mid 50's and haven't been coming down in the last 6 months.
'09 was a major upgrade for Cayman, new DFI engine, electronics, availability of PDK.
997.2's are still way out of your budget.
saeyedoc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2011, 09:59 AM   #6
Erhan
Colonel
 
Erhan's Avatar
 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 2,466
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for all the replies, especially Dave..

I haven't thought about Lotus. I will include it in my search.
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Erhan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2011, 10:26 AM   #7
Erhan
Colonel
 
Erhan's Avatar
 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 2,466
iTrader: (0)

shift, thanks. I haven't driven a Cayman or 911 so I don't know which one I will like more. People say Cayman's are very well balanced and very easy to drive. I want a car that is a little more challenging to drive but again, I haven't driven a Cayman, maybe I will love it...

The reason why I want to spend <45k is because the car will see a lot of track time, and between the running costs and track day insurance, costs will add up quickly..

ps. I woulnd't mind travelling for the right car.
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Erhan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2011, 10:44 AM   #8
Erhan
Colonel
 
Erhan's Avatar
 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 2,466
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Having owned both, the cayman S is one of the easiest cars ive ever driven. The 911 is much more of a challenge, but more rewarding than anything ive driven if you put in the time/effort to learn the R/R layout and use its strengths.
Your budget makes sense, but just throwing it out there that the pickings are relatively thin at that range (unless its high mileage).
One thing I can tell you, Porsches can take a all the driving you can give them at the track and beg for more.
This is the thing - everyone says they're very strong and can take the beating (of course w/ proper maintanence). So how much of a worry to buy a high mileage car (50-80k miles)?
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Erhan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2011, 10:44 AM   #9
Erhan
Colonel
 
Erhan's Avatar
 
Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

Posts: 2,466
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Having owned both, the cayman S is one of the easiest cars ive ever driven. The 911 is much more of a challenge, but more rewarding than anything ive driven if you put in the time/effort to learn the R/R layout and use its strengths.
Your budget makes sense, but just throwing it out there that the pickings are relatively thin at that range (unless its high mileage).
One thing I can tell you, Porsches can take a all the driving you can give them at the track and beg for more.
This is exactly what I want.
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Erhan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2011, 10:44 AM   #10
mact3333
Captain
 
mact3333's Avatar
 
Drives: 11' Audi S4
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pacific NW

Posts: 781
iTrader: (1)

for the money and dedicated trackcar/weekend car, supercharged Lotus exige/elise would be a great choice...quick, handles great, fun....I had original lotus Elise.

Mini Cooper S was a great DD for me...loved it...but the seats are horrible and gave me a back ache after 30 minutes, so I had to sell it.

Just sold an 06' Porsche C4S with 11K mi for 57.5K...great car, but only for a GQ and weekend car...not a good DD at all as it doesnt have useable back seats or trunk and stiff as hell with coils on it...but handles great and was fast.
mact3333 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2011, 11:08 AM   #11
scheherazade
Major
 
Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DC metro area

Posts: 1,467
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
Thanks for all the replies, especially Dave..

I haven't thought about Lotus. I will include it in my search.
+ a bunch.

Really fun cars. Actually, the most fun I've had driving.

I'd highly recommend test driving a lotus before you buy a porsche.
You owe it to yourself to be informed of your options before you buy :P.

-scheherazade
scheherazade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-27-2011, 11:42 PM   #12
mkiv808
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 06 E90/Cayman S
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Milford, CT

Posts: 438
iTrader: (0)

Cayman S is easy in the sense that it has predictable handling and tons of grip, but it isn't lacking in excitement in the least.

I had an Elise, and they're actually not easy to drive. Easy in the sense that they give you tons of confidence with the best driving feel and nimbleness of just about any car. Not e
__________________
2009 BMW M3 E92 6M AW/FR
Eibach Springs + H&R Front Sway + LUX AE + LCI Taillights + BMW Performance CF Spoiler + Bastuck Clubsport Exhaust

Last edited by mkiv808; 06-27-2011 at 11:58 PM.
mkiv808 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:11 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST