BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board
 
Strasse Wheels
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-22-2011, 12:56 AM   #1
BayMoWe335
Major
72

 
Drives: 2010 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: US


Posts: 1,397
iTrader: (0)

Any Pilots Out There That Can Tell Me What the F Happened?

So we are landing on a 737 and there is lightning, winds, and a storm going on. The captain is giving us muffled updates and we finally decide to land after delaying about 30 minutes in the air.

I swear, we are literally 10 feet from landing (I can see the stripes on the runway and had the sensation that we were about to land) and he all the sudden pulls back up and climbs back in the air. It was like a fake landing.

Why would he pull back up? He got on the intercom and said he got word he needed to land at a different runway due to the storm. BS! We were literally ABOUT to land (not more than 10 feet) and he decides at the last possible second he needs to pull up just to land on a different runway? I can hardly believe that.

So we circle around another 10 minutes and land with no issue.

I really think one of 2 things:

1) No Landing gear and got word at the last second
2) Wrong pitch and felt like the landing was going to be too hard/dangerous and decided to try again.

Anyone have something similar happen and can you shed light on what happened here?

Thanks!
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 01:06 AM   #2
Haus_07
E85 is my friend
United_States
4

 
Haus_07's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 E90 335
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mesa, AZ


Posts: 224
iTrader: (0)

I've been an aircraft mechanic for the last 15 years of my life, and most of my family has worked for united airlines most of their lives (father and step-father are both retired captains for united). My father has owned several single engine aircraft, and I've been up with him quite a bit. Sounds like the pilot was running out of enough safe distance to stop the aircraft once he got it on the ground, and in wet conditions, you need even more runway length to get the aircraft safely stopped. So he hit the throttles and came around for another attempt. Could have had some bad cross-winds at the last minute, or a ton of other things that changed his mind about putting the plane down at that particular moment. I highly, HIGHLY doubt he did not have his landing gear down. There would have been multiple alarms going off for quite some time before landing. Touch and goes are not that rare, especially in bad weather. Hope this helps!!
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 01:11 AM   #3
WinoGregorio
Second Lieutenant
United_States
3

 
Drives: 2008 335i Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Gatos


Posts: 243
iTrader: (0)

...or traffic on the runway...
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 01:12 AM   #4
alexckma
Lieutenant
12

 
Drives: P. Panorama 10, L Gallardo 05
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hong Kong, Canada


Posts: 516
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
So we are landing on a 737 and there is lightning, winds, and a storm going on. The captain is giving us muffled updates and we finally decide to land after delaying about 30 minutes in the air.

I swear, we are literally 10 feet from landing (I can see the stripes on the runway and had the sensation that we were about to land) and he all the sudden pulls back up and climbs back in the air. It was like a fake landing.

Why would he pull back up? He got on the intercom and said he got word he needed to land at a different runway due to the storm. BS! We were literally ABOUT to land (not more than 10 feet) and he decides at the last possible second he needs to pull up just to land on a different runway? I can hardly believe that.

So we circle around another 10 minutes and land with no issue.

I really think one of 2 things:

1) No Landing gear and got word at the last second
2) Wrong pitch and felt like the landing was going to be too hard/dangerous and decided to try again.

Anyone have something similar happen and can you shed light on what happened here?

Thanks!
dangerous landing, or too much cross wind, a maladjusted landing can be extremely dangerous. It's only BS because the pilot does not feel like he wants to explain it to the passengers

Better safe than sorry
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 01:17 AM   #5
BayMoWe335
Major
72

 
Drives: 2010 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: US


Posts: 1,397
iTrader: (0)

So this approach was 100% safe (or much safer than the alternative)? What could putting a plane down in bad conditions mean? Just a rough landing or actually crashing?

Last question...is there any danger in "taking off" again when you're so close to landing? It just felt very weird, but I suppose it's just like a normal take off?
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 01:17 AM   #6
BayMoWe335
Major
72

 
Drives: 2010 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: US


Posts: 1,397
iTrader: (0)

And could this particular pilot have been somewhat inexperienced in flying during bad weather?

Maybe this was a yawner for pilots, but for passengers, it feels really crazy to do something like this because it's not "normal." In a more rational state of mind, I think a lot more would have to happen before the plane was in danger of crashing.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 01:27 AM   #7
Haus_07
E85 is my friend
United_States
4

 
Haus_07's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 E90 335
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mesa, AZ


Posts: 224
iTrader: (0)

I don't know about hard landings from the pilots point of view, but from an aircraft manufacture's point of view, there are criteria for hard landings. If a plane meets the hard landing criteria, it has to have a specific inspection completed to insure there was no structural damage to the landing gear, trunion beams, and other major components. I doubt though that the pilot was thinking about the extra inspection. Much safer to abort a landing that's not looking so good, than risk the lives of the passengers and crew onboard. No danger in taking off again. Much more room to climb out again than there is once you touch down and try to slow that monster down in crappy weather!!
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 01:32 AM   #8
plokij
Lieutenant
United_States
6

 
plokij's Avatar
 
Drives: Nothing
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SoCal


Posts: 520
iTrader: (1)

it's exactly what Haus is saying. it happens at airports with "smaller" runways like my local one in SD (which is located in the highly populated downtown area). if they don't have enough room to stop, or are coming in crooked, coupled with wet tarmac, all hell can break loose in a metropolis.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 01:53 AM   #9
Haus_07
E85 is my friend
United_States
4

 
Haus_07's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 E90 335
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mesa, AZ


Posts: 224
iTrader: (0)

You weren't in any danger of crashing, bro. It's not like a touch and go was the pilots last ditch effort to avoid a major disaster. Actually, as soon as he probably even had a the slightest notion that the on-going landing might be just the slightest bit unsafe, he nailed the throttles, and pulled the nose up. Pilots spend countless hours doing just what he did; touch and go's. May have seemed out of place to you, but it was a textbook maneuver for him, which he has practiced many, many times. Second nature even.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 02:08 AM   #10
trekker
Private First Class
2

 
Drives: e90LCI
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: HONG KONG


Posts: 116
iTrader: (0)

From an airline pilot point of view, we don't prefer to do a go-around (mis approach) unless we really have to. The work load and stress level goes up very quickly especially if there is weather around. I am sure the pilots on your flight had their reason for it. There are heaps of reason for a go around, windshear, wind exceeding limits, unstablised approach, high on profile, you name it. It's really hard to tell what happened if you are not sitting in the cockpit. I think the most important thing is now u are safe on the ground. You really don't want to sit in a plane with some cowboy pilots trying to land in an unsafe condition. As what he told you through the announcement, he might not be lying to you, maybe he just didn't have the time to tell you the whole story. As I mentioned before, during a go around is a very stressful and busy time for us, sometimes we may not even have the time or spare mental capacity to tell the passengers what's going on. We do try, but the priority is to land the plane safely first. You just gotta trust the pilots sometimes.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 02:21 AM   #11
trekker
Private First Class
2

 
Drives: e90LCI
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: HONG KONG


Posts: 116
iTrader: (0)

As for your thought of not having the gear down, you were on a B737 there are warnnings and indications to prevent it from happening, not saying it never happens but the possibility of the pilots trying the land with the damn annoying warning going on and on is very minimal. as a matter of fact, you can actually tell if the gear is down or not since the gear generate quite a bit of noice and it normally gives you a double "ding" on the seatbelt sign.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 03:08 AM   #12
Haus_07
E85 is my friend
United_States
4

 
Haus_07's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 E90 335
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mesa, AZ


Posts: 224
iTrader: (0)

Oops. Go around was what I was referring to/meant, not touch and go. My bad!! Excellent explanation, trekker!!
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 03:37 AM   #13
Taipei-TT
Captain
8

 
Drives: 2014 X3 2.0D
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Canadian in Taipei


Posts: 642
iTrader: (0)

Go arounds happen all the time for a variety of reasons...most of which do not mean you were in imminent danger...just staying on the side of caution.

I was on an a320 landing in Tainan (small runway) in a powerful cross wind where even sitting in the back you could see the crab approach the pilot needed to keep flying straight. We drifted down the runway for a long time, the right landing gear touched down, and then the pilot hit TOGA (take off go around) and we went back up. He had touched down too far down the runway to make a safe stop. I have a private pilot's license but never flown a jet, so even though I have a vague idea of what's going on..I agree it can be unnerving sitting in the back and not knowing why things are happening. Trekker is right...you have put your life in the hands of the guys up front..trust them. After all, they are in the same boat as you!

Still safer than driving with all the untrained and distracter drivers that populate the streets here!


For fun Haus...post this on airliners.net and watch them go crazy on you for being a wuss!
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 04:20 AM   #14
3284me
Private First Class
1

 
3284me's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 328xi
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NJ


Posts: 148
iTrader: (0)

Maybe he was trying to avoid a squirrel.
__________________

2011 328xi. Space Grey / Beige Leather / Premium / Steptronic / HSW / Nav / Sat
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 04:54 AM   #15
Wild Squid
Banned
12

 
Drives: 2011 BMW 335i coupe Msport AW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Nor Cal


Posts: 628
iTrader: (0)

Quit yo bitchin, just be glad you're alive!
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 06:37 AM   #16
John 070
Lieutenant General
150

 
Drives: 335i cpe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ZSP/ZPP/ZCW


Posts: 11,483
iTrader: (0)

This is a bit OT, eh? Just a little. Oh yeah, nevermind, the flight attendant had a bra with a BMW logo that the OP caught a glimpse of when she was pouring his sprite.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 06:56 AM   #17
B-737
Captain
United_States
17

 
B-737's Avatar
 
Drives: Carrera C2 993
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Jersey Shore


Posts: 822
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 328 xi  [3.63]
95 Carrera C2 993  [0.00]
At 10 feet seeing stripes prob not traffic related. I'll put ten bucks that it was an aircraft generated windshear alert. Or possibly, although remote, was going to be a long landing.

As an aside, Remember this when ur buying ur $150 airfare that the guys upfront are trained skilled professionals. Airline companies, marketing and corporate might want you thinking it's like riding the bus but it's serious business. This is usually my brief interjection when a passenger starts complaining to me, soap box off
__________________

Last edited by B-737; 06-22-2011 at 07:03 AM.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 07:14 AM   #18
John 070
Lieutenant General
150

 
Drives: 335i cpe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ZSP/ZPP/ZCW


Posts: 11,483
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-737 View Post
buying ur $150 airfare
I don't think those types of airfares exist anymore. All the airlines have to do is charge $25 per bag and $35 for the next, and look at how uncivilized it gets with bags of all shapes and sizes being carried-on. Overheads are filled 3 to 4 aisles ahead of the passengers' seats. The whole industry is a shame because you sure know the staff and pilots aren't getting rich, look at them. Not a job that most of us would envy.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 07:22 AM   #19
mithiral67
That guy
68

 
mithiral67's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 Cayman GTS
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago Burbs


Posts: 5,724
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
i feel if you went and watched top gun, you could find several answers.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 07:29 AM   #20
ChasVS
Colonel
United_States
26

 
ChasVS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 MB ML350 Bluetec
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central FL


Posts: 2,432
iTrader: (10)

BMW involved in this wasted thread in anyway?
__________________
My speeding isn't the problem. It's the Slow Folks ahead of me that cause accidents!
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 09:13 AM   #21
MorpheIS
Second Lieutenant
United_States
2

 
Drives: 335i 6MT, Sport, Prem
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New York, NY


Posts: 250
iTrader: (0)

Ditto on trekker's post. In the last 15 years I've been a pilot, I've managed to chalk up a few go-arounds. It could be for a wide variety of reasons - in my case I've had one incident where ground control had an aircraft that was just clearing the active runway. In most other situations, my go-arounds were due to cross-winds that exceeded my comfort level.

Go-arounds are not inherently dangerous, but as Trekker mentioned, there's a lot going on in the cockpit right after an aborted landing (full throttle, raising of landing gear, adjustment of flaps, etc), all of which is, of course, a priority over communicating to the passengers at that moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trekker View Post
From an airline pilot point of view, we don't prefer to do a go-around (mis approach) unless we really have to. The work load and stress level goes up very quickly especially if there is weather around. I am sure the pilots on your flight had their reason for it. There are heaps of reason for a go around, windshear, wind exceeding limits, unstablised approach, high on profile, you name it. It's really hard to tell what happened if you are not sitting in the cockpit. I think the most important thing is now u are safe on the ground. You really don't want to sit in a plane with some cowboy pilots trying to land in an unsafe condition. As what he told you through the announcement, he might not be lying to you, maybe he just didn't have the time to tell you the whole story. As I mentioned before, during a go around is a very stressful and busy time for us, sometimes we may not even have the time or spare mental capacity to tell the passengers what's going on. We do try, but the priority is to land the plane safely first. You just gotta trust the pilots sometimes.
__________________
2008 335i Coupe, 6MT, Monaco Blue, Saddle, Sport, Premium, Comf Access, Nav, iPod, CDV Swap
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2011, 09:16 AM   #22
BayMoWe335
Major
72

 
Drives: 2010 E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: US


Posts: 1,397
iTrader: (0)

My bad for the wrong forum.

Thanks for the responses fellas.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:23 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST