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      06-22-2011, 01:05 PM   #45
Blake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
I had this happen once, too. We were feet from landing at SFO when the pilot aborted. In this case it was due to proximity with another aircraft. That was also the first (and only) time I got to experience at least some of the true capabilities of an airliner, in terms of steep climbs and banking. It was pretty impressive to see how much more the plane could really do than we ever normally get to experience.
well your average 737, like OP describes, uses about 80% N1 power during takeoff. there's an extra 20% of that engine's max thrust still waiting for emergencies. when a pilot hits TOGA button, the engines go to 100%+ power and sometimes will fly a missed approach pattern, if programmed in the autopilot correctly. during a thunderstorm, i wouldn't expect spacing to be an issue as ATC will always provide lots more spacing in the air. but yes, especially with the plane in a light condition (end of flight after fuel burn), 100% trust will send that plane climbing like a bat out of hell.

your case sounds like pilot on short final and the aircraft landing in front of you hadn't cleared the runway in safe enough distance to proceed, or ATC told the pilot to go around because of another ground issue.
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      06-22-2011, 01:15 PM   #46
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I agree w Blake. EGPWS generated windshear alert. If it were traffic you'd have gone around well before seeing runway stripes, we dont cut traffic that close, even in EWR LGA...

And yes sometimes our climb out power is to the tune of 104%! unless ur leaving orange county then it's 50% lol
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      06-22-2011, 04:40 PM   #47
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what happened was you shat your pants.
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      06-22-2011, 05:43 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake View Post
well your average 737, like OP describes, uses about 80% N1 power during takeoff. there's an extra 20% of that engine's max thrust still waiting for emergencies. when a pilot hits TOGA button, the engines go to 100%+ power and sometimes will fly a missed approach pattern, if programmed in the autopilot correctly. during a thunderstorm, i wouldn't expect spacing to be an issue as ATC will always provide lots more spacing in the air. but yes, especially with the plane in a light condition (end of flight after fuel burn), 100% trust will send that plane climbing like a bat out of hell.

your case sounds like pilot on short final and the aircraft landing in front of you hadn't cleared the runway in safe enough distance to proceed, or ATC told the pilot to go around because of another ground issue.
You think so even though the weather was horrible? A lot seem to think the winds caused this.

Would the FAA tell me? (Half joking)
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      06-22-2011, 05:55 PM   #49
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I think since there is so many pilots on here there should be a section for aviation so us pilots an A&P's can talk and help one another...just my $0.02
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      06-22-2011, 06:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
You think so even though the weather was horrible? A lot seem to think the winds caused this.

Would the FAA tell me? (Half joking)
i was referring to fstop's post. but there is a great chance your case was due to a wind shear warning, especially if you were over the runway on landing. by the book dictates a go around every time if wind shear warning happens.

go around's aren't something that has to be reported to the NTSB. only accidents and incidents are reported. accidents are obvious, but incidents are more common and can include things like runway incursions. besides, FAA says nothing unless you ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Pilot View Post
I think since there is so many pilots on here there should be a section for aviation so us pilots an A&P's can talk and help one another...just my $0.02
we have airliners.net for that
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      06-22-2011, 06:23 PM   #51
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How much different are planes today than they were say 20 years ago? Are they more equipped to handle bad weather, microburst, crosswinds, etc?

I did some research and noticed microburst is a pretty common problem and that's pretty scary. I see the pilot also has discretion to land even if the tower tells them things are pretty bad. I just hope we weren't close to a big fail, but I guess I'll never know.

I just wish he would have landed elsewhere if the rain/lightning was that bad.
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      06-22-2011, 06:25 PM   #52
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I know all the other forums but it's cool to talk to my BMW bothers about flying...
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      06-22-2011, 07:02 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
How much different are planes today than they were say 20 years ago? Are they more equipped to handle bad weather, microburst, crosswinds, etc?

I did some research and noticed microburst is a pretty common problem and that's pretty scary. I see the pilot also has discretion to land even if the tower tells them things are pretty bad. I just hope we weren't close to a big fail, but I guess I'll never know.

I just wish he would have landed elsewhere if the rain/lightning was that bad.
well the laws of aerodynamics never change, but planes are technologically far advanced from where they were 20 years ago. same thing with any other piece of technology. as far as handling winds, that's more about the pilot than airplane. there are newer gizmos that can indicate a dangerous situation, but flying crosswind and in weather is something as common as flying in clear calm conditions. you're just overreacting is all.

pilot always has final discretion provided there isn't traffic on the runway. what he did wasn't dangerous. it happens all the time. you can have wind shear on a clear day. flying in weather is more about avoiding the bad stuff vs avoiding it completely. diverting is a very last ditch thing on all air carriers and only usually happens if the weather doesn't clear enough to land and fuel becomes a problem. the pilot wouldn't have even chosen to land there if he deemed it unsafe. his career is riding on that decision.
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      06-22-2011, 09:22 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trekker View Post
From an airline pilot point of view, we don't prefer to do a go-around (mis approach) unless we really have to. The work load and stress level goes up very quickly especially if there is weather around. I am sure the pilots on your flight had their reason for it. There are heaps of reason for a go around, windshear, wind exceeding limits, unstablised approach, high on profile, you name it. It's really hard to tell what happened if you are not sitting in the cockpit. I think the most important thing is now u are safe on the ground. You really don't want to sit in a plane with some cowboy pilots trying to land in an unsafe condition. As what he told you through the announcement, he might not be lying to you, maybe he just didn't have the time to tell you the whole story. As I mentioned before, during a go around is a very stressful and busy time for us, sometimes we may not even have the time or spare mental capacity to tell the passengers what's going on. We do try, but the priority is to land the plane safely first. You just gotta trust the pilots sometimes.
A similar thing happened to my wife and I on a landing on Long Island (Southwest). It was raining with very low cloud cover and we were coming in, descending, descending and when the cloud cover broke, the runway was like 20 feet below the plane. They took off again (I probably would've shit my pants seeing that but I'm not a pilot).

Guy comes on the loudspeaker and says it's pretty bad out and they'll try landing one more time but if they're not comfortable, they would divert to Baltimore. They managed to land the plane without issue the second time. With 3 fire trucks and a fire chief on the side of the runway with their lights all flashing.

It's impossible to speculate on what might've been going on, but I'm glad that take 2 was successful.
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      06-22-2011, 09:28 PM   #55
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Airline industry operates at a 9 sigma level, which is the safest you can get. Hospitals are trying to change their operation to become like an airline. A change in industry not just company.
It's safe because of what pilot goes through before flying, during and landing.

I've been to several flights where pilots had to go around and they were all weather related. I was in a flight where the airplane was "dropping" while preparing for landing. The plane would literally drop! You feel like you're in a rollercoaster and people were screaming, crying and throwing up. The pilot attempted 3 times. The last one was successful.

Another example was in the Asia, just like the OPs example, gears were down and it was a touch and go. The plane had to return to it's origin. I was delayed one day. I'd rather be delayed than dead.
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      06-22-2011, 09:38 PM   #56
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Had the same thing happen a few times. You think you're inches from the ground and the pilot spools up and goes around. Shit happens. Had that happen on a bumpy-ass military flight with my knees jammed up against a Jeep and SF guys barfing all around. We ended up landing at an airfield two hours away. Sometimes it's wind shear, sometimes crosswinds, sometimes the damn plane won't settle in the last few feet and overruns the minimum rollout point for the runway. At least you got to land at the right airport.
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      06-23-2011, 05:33 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
All I can say is it did feel like an "odd" angle, almost too much nose down or something...and some shaking. I still can't believe how close we were to the runway.

Could a scenario be that the wheels actually touch the runway and then you still take off again?
you can't tell what angle or how nose down the airplane you are at from the passenger's seat or pilot's seat for that matter. If you fly based on feeling, especially in bad weather, you die.. trust your instruments.

yes, they can touch the runway and you take off. That is called a Touch & Go.

Quote:
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i'm willing to bet all my flight hours on this was a wind shear warning in the cockpit.
+1
my first reaction too
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      06-23-2011, 08:39 AM   #58
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I have yet to experience a go-around, but seen a few in KLAX during spotting.
Marine layer fog closing in, maybe visibility near the ocean end of the runway was obstructed when the fog was moving in.

To OP, I'd rather have the pilot to go-around rather than its only 20 feet, let's make the landing! Knock on wood, you will be on headline news.
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      06-23-2011, 08:55 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
I have yet to experience a go-around, but seen a few in KLAX during spotting.
Marine layer fog closing in, maybe visibility near the ocean end of the runway was obstructed when the fog was moving in.

To OP, I'd rather have the pilot to go-around rather than its only 20 feet, let's make the landing! Knock on wood, you will be on headline news.
you don't need visual to land..
it was more than likely windshear
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      06-23-2011, 09:03 AM   #60
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Quote:
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you don't need visual to land..
it was more than likely windshear
Neh...I'm not saying the OP's case.
The day at LAX it wasn't windy, just marine fog creeping in.

For the OP's flight, yah...pretty much windshear or possible microburst.
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      06-23-2011, 10:50 AM   #61
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This is a great discussion, thanks guys for the input.

Any thoughts on the year the plane I was on was probably built? Or is there really no telling?

It was a B737 and I'm curious if they just keep planes around 20, 30 years of service and continually retrofit new instruments, or do you have to wait for the new model to get the newest technology?

How many miles will a plane fly before it's retired and then what happens to it? Crushed and recycled?

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      06-23-2011, 11:11 AM   #62
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^ Planes can stay in service for a long time
don't know much about the regionals/nationals, but a Cessna for example can stay airworthy for 50years

they can retrofit all technology to any plane
the avionics, engines, etc all get overhauled very often I would say.
Again, never flew a 737 to know exact details.
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      06-23-2011, 11:19 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post

How many miles will a plane fly before it's retired and then what happens to it? Crushed and recycled?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...l-1837388.html
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      06-23-2011, 11:20 AM   #64
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I don't trust an airframe that's under 30 years old.

Actually that's a lie because ever since I became a civilian, I'd prefer the newer stuff. Didn't really have a choice before.
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      06-23-2011, 11:46 AM   #65
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He may have encountered strong cross-winds which would cause to land from a different direction or possible cause a potential diverted flight to another airport.
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      06-23-2011, 11:52 AM   #66
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Aborted landings can be many reasons, traffic on the runway but in your case it was most likely a windshear warning, This could have been your plane if he decided to land

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