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      05-20-2015, 01:04 PM   #1
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Flip burgers for $31,200

Really? $15/hr minimum? How much will McD's need to charge for a burger to keep up with that?

I'm no economist, but it seems to me if the lowest paid jobs make $31k, that higher skill jobs will also rise in salaries as will those jobs even higher up the scale. Soon enough the whole economy changes and suddenly $31k will be just like $20k is now. My Dad raised five kids on $90/wk take-home pay back in the 60's. We never went hungry and had a pretty nice house. Corvettes were very pricey cars at nearly $10k new. And I remember my Dad taking us to an exclusive neighborhood because he heard about a house for sale that was going for $100k and he had to see it. That house is probably valued at $2 mil or more now. So as salaries rise, so does the cost of living. I don't see how paying fast food workers $15/hr is going to solve anything. They'll still be poorly paid once it all evens out.
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      05-20-2015, 01:08 PM   #2
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It's already happening in LA.
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      05-20-2015, 01:10 PM   #3
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It's not going to solve anything, it will create the same revolving door thats raised the cost of living for decades. The only thing it will prove is that people who work in those positions, are not smart enough to see all the other outlying factors that go with increasing wages. All they think is, "Hey, we want more money, I don't care where it comes from or what else happens, I'm just tired of living in poverty!"


There still needs to be something behind it with intrinsic value. So lets just fart out precious metals while we increase wages.
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      05-20-2015, 01:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revartr View Post
$15/hr by 2020, while still ambitious, isn't that big of a deal.

Places that hire minimum wage workers will just adapt to do more with less the best they can. Not much different from any other job that don't have to deal with wage floors.

The people advocating for it will quickly learn that $15/hr, when everyone makes at least that, won't do wonders for things like housing but hey, I guess that's why they work minimum wage jobs.

Should there ever be a federal mandate, they should scale back the earned income tax credit, or don't raise minimum wage and expand EIC since it's more of an efficient tool in targeting poverty anyway since it scales with things like how many children you have and you have to actually be, you know, working to get it. Can't pay a single mother of 2 more to do the same job as a single 16 year old teenage who lives comfortably at home with his parents but you can scale tax credits to that legally.
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      05-20-2015, 01:14 PM   #5
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Although it sounds a bit drone-like, large corporations endorse exploiting the lower class, by allowing, and even encouraging (evident through their continual expansion plans without addressing the minimum wage issue) low pay. Since these workers don't have much of an education, if at all, they're drawn in to work for whatever they can get. Powerhouses like McDonalds Corp. don't care about the middle/upper class throwing a fit about this, they're the wealthiest and most powerful corps in the world.
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      05-20-2015, 01:19 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by fleeked View Post
Although it sounds a bit drone-like, large corporations endorse exploiting the lower class, by allowing, and even encouraging (evident through their continual expansion plans without addressing the minimum wage issue) low pay. Since these workers don't have much of an education, if at all, they're drawn in to work for whatever they can get. Powerhouses like McDonalds Corp. don't care about the middle/upper class throwing a fit about this, they're the wealthiest and most powerful corps in the world.
In most cases, companies that cater to lower income people as their primary demographic won't really care as much.

It's when you move upmarket since people who have to pay more for a product don't only expect better quality but better service as well, will they be forced to up pay as a result.

Look at the service you get at Costco vs. Walmart. It's night and day.

Plus McDonald's isn't the powerhouse people think it is, their sales have been declining on a quarter to quarter basis at an alarming rate. Seems like people are willing to pay a little more for better food and better service. Plus all the negative press may have a part in it too, maybe not their labor practices, but the health aspect of what they sell.
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      05-20-2015, 01:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleeked View Post
Although it sounds a bit drone-like, large corporations endorse exploiting the lower class, by allowing, and even encouraging (evident through their continual expansion plans without addressing the minimum wage issue) low pay. Since these workers don't have much of an education, if at all, they're drawn in to work for whatever they can get. Powerhouses like McDonalds Corp. don't care about the middle/upper class throwing a fit about this, they're the wealthiest and most powerful corps in the world.
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      05-20-2015, 01:32 PM   #8
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I would have been pretty miffed back when I was a Medic if a McD burger flipper made the same money I did.
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      05-20-2015, 01:54 PM   #9
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More jobs heading off shore.
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      05-20-2015, 02:03 PM   #10
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More jobs heading off shore.
Yup, we'll have to have a GoToMeeting with someone from India so he can instruct us on how to bag our own shit from the grocery store.
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      05-20-2015, 02:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
More jobs heading off shore.
Yep, We should lower the minimum wage , allowed appalling work conditions...and be more like China, Bangladesh etc.
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      05-20-2015, 04:54 PM   #12
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Although I am against 90% increase in minimum wage at once, they should keep up with wage inflation and other indicators of inflation.

I sure do not want to pay ~25% (speculating) price hike in necessities or fast/casual food during lunch hours either. I am 99% sure that corporation will not pass on ALL the wage increase to consumers for sure. Consumer will get hit about ~25% increase, which I cannot afford.

On the other side, software companies, etail, high tech companies with high valuations are paying much higher preimum relative to the earnings multiples. (just look at chemical sector employees vs ppl at amazon at their 6-10th year avg). So, why would McDonald general manager who has to do all the acct, mkt, sales, and comply with corp standard, etc needs to get paid less than fresh off of the boat finance guy working at different sector but work for a companies which have a same earnings multiples if they are doing nearly similar level of work?

Also, some idiot labor economist says it is "zero sum game." They say that it is shift in wage from higher paid to lower paid. However, it is wrong.
Typically lower wage people must buy necessities as well to survive, and we will see a price increase. That goes same to TV, smart phones, PC, tablet, and other high tech manufactures. It may NOT effect Aston Martin or Ferrari dealership. lol

Who knows? people are saving right now despite of lower rate right now. Even YOLOs didn't have too much $ to consume after having portion of tax returns shrinked for lower wages.

I am sure some economists (or wanna be) here will ask me to back it up with theories, data analysis , and math. I just don't have a time to do so. Why would I do it, if I don't get paid to analyze and predict the labor market.
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      05-20-2015, 04:59 PM   #13
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inflation, cost of living and housing all have outpaced minimum wage, and here we are bitching that people who want to WORK to better themselves and thier lives are getting an "unfair handout"

Ok.
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      05-20-2015, 05:09 PM   #14
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Even smart people just lose all sense of logic in the minimum wage argument.

It's a stupid idea, bottom line.

It will create unemployment, inflation, and overall fewer jobs for low wage workers.

You have to ask yourself, if this is a good idea, why stop at $15? It's because it's not a good idea and really accomplishes the opposite of its intent.

Companies won't do anything unless there is an incentive. What this really will do is create yet another unintended tax for more affluent people to pay and fewer jobs for the people who need the help. Then we can increase people on welfare. California is probably the dumbest state in the U.S.

Remember, not all low wage workers are "losers" being "exploited" by large corporations. Many of them are young or retired working for the experience, benefits, or both. I'm sick of people saying it's exploitation. Flipping burgers should have a market price wage...not some arbitrarily deduced number to give them a raise while ignoring the unintended and more damaging consequences.
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      05-20-2015, 06:02 PM   #15
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Just think of what would happen to the planet if the population of 'middle class' increases. You think stuff is expensive now. Just wait until a few billion Chinese and Indians enter middle class.
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      05-20-2015, 06:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Just think of what would happen to the planet if the population of 'middle class' increases. You think stuff is expensive now. Just wait until a few billion Chinese and Indians enter middle class.
Currently, the middle class income range is between $25,000-$100,000/year. $25,000/year is insufficient to survive in many major U.S. cities. I believe if we categorize the middle class as the income range between $45,000-$85,000/year, while the bulk of the income range is between $55,000-$65,000/year, and increase the number of individuals living at this range, we would observe a catalyzing effect for the super-wealthy and super-poor, effectively decreasing the number of individuals living in poverty [while also decreasing the number of individuals living well-off]. The closer we get to the average line, the better off society becomes, in terms of living above the poverty line. Your post neglects the fact that if the poor get richer, the rich will get poorer, which would be bound to happen.

Edit: to clarify, as we see in the case above, the rich feed off the poor, those without an education who are forced into labor and earning less than they can live with. Simple solution: give the poor money, educate them, encourage them to demand more in order to live comfortably. Of course, this is just a complete hypothetical and would, in reality, never happen, but in theory, it seems like quite a simple solution.

Last edited by fleeked; 05-20-2015 at 06:44 PM.
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      05-20-2015, 06:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
In most cases, companies that cater to lower income people as their primary demographic won't really care as much.

It's when you move upmarket since people who have to pay more for a product don't only expect better quality but better service as well, will they be forced to up pay as a result.

Look at the service you get at Costco vs. Walmart. It's night and day.

Plus McDonald's isn't the powerhouse people think it is, their sales have been declining on a quarter to quarter basis at an alarming rate. Seems like people are willing to pay a little more for better food and better service. Plus all the negative press may have a part in it too, maybe not their labor practices, but the health aspect of what they sell.
So develop the poorer areas then, or leave things be? It just seems like we'd be at an eternal gridlock, since removing the poor and placing them in upmarket, developed areas isn't a plausible solution. Unless you're claiming that Walmart, and the like, are inherently designed to cater to the poor? To that, I somewhat agree. It's almost as if we're saying, "those living in poverty asked for it". Obviously, I take issue with that.
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      05-20-2015, 07:45 PM   #18
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Would I flip burgers for $31k/yr? Ah hell no. Getting grease burns all over my arms, having to wash clothing multiple times to get that stench out, slipping all over a grease covered floor surrounded by multiple incredibly hot appliances, crappy hours any day and rarely able to work more than 4 consecutive hours due to only needed for the 'lunch rush', not having an appetite after work due to being around such trashy food all day.....

No thanks. I'll take my air conditioned desk with my comfy chair where I have to talk on the phone, type some stuff on the computer, go to two meetings a day, and maybe converse with the people I work with a couple times a day.
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      05-20-2015, 07:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyT View Post
Would I flip burgers for $31k/yr? Ah hell no. Getting grease burns all over my arms, having to wash clothing multiple times to get that stench out, slipping all over a grease covered floor surrounded by multiple incredibly hot appliances, crappy hours any day and rarely able to work more than 4 consecutive hours due to only needed for the 'lunch rush', not having an appetite after work due to being around such trashy food all day.....

No thanks. I'll take my air conditioned desk with my comfy chair where I have to talk on the phone, type some stuff on the computer, go to two meetings a day, and maybe converse with the people I work with a couple times a day.
For most, it's not a matter of choice.
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      05-20-2015, 08:01 PM   #20
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I agree fleeked. My comment was more pointed at the fact that many jobs out there are physically challenging, yet many deem these jobs as only worthy of being paid a percentage of a "normal job"
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      05-20-2015, 09:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
Really? $15/hr minimum? How much will McD's need to charge for a burger to keep up with that?
Relax bruh. I read a while back that they could raise the typical Big Mac a whopping $.52 to offset this raise if they needed to maintain current profit margin. If I ate that type of stuff, I would gladly pay it to help those who actually need it.
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      05-20-2015, 09:06 PM   #22
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btw,,,,
You guys would not believe how many people who already have a decent paying career working at low wage retail as a part timer on weeknight and weekends.
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