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      06-20-2011, 12:54 PM   #45
J08M3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
I have lived in USA for over 20 years.
well then good luck to you getting warranty work done if you remove your cats and have an engine issue.
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      06-20-2011, 03:16 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
None of your foolishness makes any sense what so ever. You can rant all you want but the terms of your new vehicle warranty are clear and will not change by you being socially and technically ignorant.

As I've explained to your countless times, ALTERATIONS to the vehicle's OE engineered specifications, i.e. exactly how BMW delivered it to you, are grounds to void the relevant section of the new vehicle warranty. It makes absolutely no difference how a car is sold in Germany. If you alter the vehicle's engineered specifications by removing the CATs, BMW can and will void your powertrain warranty.

You can post all the false beliefs you want. It does not change anything. I have shown you the relevant section of the BMW new vehicle warranty that applies to alterations. Acting like a jerk will not make your false beliefs true.

Once again for the reading comprehension impaired...

Quote from your new vehicle warranty terms and conditions:

"“Damage which results from negligence,
improper operation of the vehicle, wear and
tear or deterioration due to driving habits or
conditions, improper repair, environmental
influences, flood, accident or fire damage, road
salt corrosion, alteration, installation of
non-genuine BMW accessories, or use of
improper, poor quality or contaminated fuel”

NOTE: Bold enlarged type for the reading comprehension imparied.

Were the cats part of the original engine design?????
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      06-20-2011, 04:38 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
The CATs are part of the U.S. spec vehicle AS DELIVERED TO THE CUSTOMER.

The U.S. warranty applies to U.S. sold models. The German, Asian, Australian, etc. model warranties apply to the vehicle sold in those regions. It's totally absurd for you to try and link how the car is sold in Germany to the U.S. for warranty purposes. And yes the U.S. spec model most certainly was engineered with CATs when it was designed - as required by U.S. law.

I realize you are desperate to try and save face but you lost face long ago, so you can end the charades because nothing changes based on you false beliefs.

Stop being a fucking dick and keep your childish insults to your self!! Mkay?


And most certainly doesnt work in here! Its either Yes or No. The law does not have opinions, only facts. So when you are done being a douche bag, get back to me with legal facts about my question. "Were the catalytic converters part of the original engine design?"
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      06-20-2011, 05:28 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
Stop being a fucking dick and keep your childish insults to your self!! Mkay?


And most certainly doesnt work in here! Its either Yes or No. The law does not have opinions, only facts. So when you are done being a douche bag, get back to me with legal facts about my question. "Were the catalytic converters part of the original engine design?"
Like I said... You're point is irrealavent. BMW can and most likely will void engine warranty if you remove your cats.

Back to the OPs question though. Why not look into some weight saving alternatives instead?
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      06-20-2011, 05:30 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
Like I said... You're point is irrealavent. BMW can and most likely will void engine warranty if you remove your cats.

Back to the OPs question though. Why not look into some weight saving alternatives instead?
Weight saving alternatives void your warranty because you alter your car. Or didnt you read the warranty??


"“Damage which results from negligence,
improper operation of the vehicle, wear and
tear or deterioration due to driving habits or
conditions, improper repair, environmental
influences, flood, accident or fire damage, road
salt corrosion, alteration, installation of
non-genuine BMW accessories, or use of
improper, poor quality or contaminated fuel”
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      06-20-2011, 06:04 PM   #50
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Can't we just all get along and enjoy our great cars?

And for a weight saving idea, travel with no passengers. haha
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      06-20-2011, 06:20 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
Since you are so great at insulting people i will repeat my self very slowly so you can understand with that awesome brain of yours.


There are no catalytic converters in Germany on cars
I agree with you that cats have no bearing on engine health but the above statement is not true. German cars most certainly do have cats.

I hate to use the word "never" because there are always exceptions, but I personally have never seen a warranty voided because of an exhaust.
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      06-20-2011, 06:25 PM   #52
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KGB7, with the limited amount that I have read, I think the point that TrackRat is trying to get across is that even if the vehicle was originally designed without the use of catalytic converters involved, since the warranty offered in America for vehicles delivered in America to American customers states that damage occuring from any alteration can cause a new vehicle warranty to become voided, it is possible that the removal of catalytic coverters can cause a warranty void, kind of like how anything is technically possible.

You and TrackRat seem to be arguing different points. You are stating that it is unlikely that the motor will sustain any damage due to the removal of catalytic coverters. I agree, that's why I currently use an Akrapovic Evolution system, which eliminates most of the emissions restrictions. (Wait, I don't according to my sig, mmkay?)

TrackRat is stating that, although the removal of the catalytic converters is unlikely to cause engine damage, in the event that engine damage does occur, just the simple fact that the vehicle has been altered between the time that it was delivered to the customer to the time that it sustained damage can be used to void your warranty under the alteration clause. BMW USA does not warranty the vehicle based on how it was originally designed by M GmbH which I think is your point, it warranties the vehicle based off of how it left the BMW factory as manufactured for intended United States usage, which I think is TrackRat's point.
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      06-20-2011, 07:13 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
I agree with you that cats have no bearing on engine health but the above statement is not true. German cars most certainly do have cats.

I hate to use the word "never" because there are always exceptions, but I personally have never seen a warranty voided because of an exhaust.

Actually German passenger cars have to have Cats starting 2005. They fall in to Class Euro 4 and get a emission sticker like we do here in US.

I was testing his knowledge which he failed miserably.
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      06-20-2011, 07:22 PM   #54
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I don't think anyone would say that altering the cats or other parts voids the entire warranty and I don't believe that is what TrackRat is saying. However, it can and WILL void the warrany coverage for any part of the car that the alteration would impact. My dealer told me that a slip-on is fine but if I mess with the cats and, for example, something happened to the O2 sensor, it would be on my dime. Even if the alteration didn't actually cause the problem, it would be hard to prove otherwise if there is a reasonable argument that it could have.
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      06-20-2011, 07:47 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
Weight saving alternatives void your warranty because you alter your car. Or didnt you read the
Depends what options you choose. And it won't void your engine warranty.
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      06-20-2011, 09:06 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
they have to prove that your "modification" caused the said problem...otherwise warranty remains intact
They have to prove nothing. What are you going to do if the dealer says "we can't honor the warranty because you installed part 'X' which is not OEM"

You will have to go hire a lawyer and go through a lengthy and expensive legal battle all while your car sits broken. You will spend more in legal fees than if you just paid for your car to be fixed. It will takes months to resolve, and you still may not win.
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      06-20-2011, 09:15 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
Depends what options you choose. And it won't void your engine warranty.

But you void warranty for other parts of your car.

Changing out factory wheels for custom wheels is an alteration of the original vehicles design.
Changing out factory anything for something else is an alteration of the original vehicle design.


Thats the thing about this warranty, it is unclear what is considered an "alteration", what can be and cannot be altered from original design. And because of the way it was worded and structured, dealer can void your warranty for anything if it wants to just because it has a word "alteration" in the warranty.

Btw.
Cars that have an engine of 1.4L or less, are not required to have Catalytic converters in Europe, regardless who made or where it is registered.
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      06-20-2011, 09:20 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
How many times do I need to educate you?

YES THE CATS WERE PART OF THE ORIGINAL ENGINE DESIGN and YES THEY ARE REQUIRED ON ALL U.S. SPEC MODELS SOLD IN THE U.S. and YES REMOVAL OF THE CATS IS AN ALTERATION OF THE VEHICLES ENGINEERED SPECIFICATIONS and YES REMOVING THE CATS WILL VOID YOUR NEW VEHICLE POWERTRAIN WARRANTY.

Is that clear enough for you or should I carve it on your forehead so when you look in the mirror you have a clue?

How the engine was or was not designed in Germany has NO influence on your U.S. new vehicle warranty. The warranty is not contingent on an alteration being harmful to the vehicle. I repeat: Your new vehicle warranty alteration clause is NOT contingent on the alteration being harmful to the vehicle, it's any alteration to the vehicle's engineered specifications. The warranty is based on the vehicle's engineered specifications AS IS WAS DELIVERED TO YOU. Your U.S. warranty specifically forbids alterations to the vehicle's engineered specifications. Did you read your new vehicle warranty?

Name calling, insults and technical ignorance on your part is not going to change reality. You KNOW the facts as they are presented in your new vehicle warranty and quoted here. Your are in denial and think if you argue long enough, some how you will win. That won't happen. Your beliefs are not supported by your new vehicle warranty terms and conditions so you are SOL.

How about you educate your self and show me in your warranty where it state clearly; "ALTERATION OF THE VEHICLES ENGINEERED SPECIFICATIONS"!

So far you have shown me word alteration about ten times, then you added your own wording out of thin air.

Where in warranty does it say; ALTERATION OF THE VEHICLES ENGINEERED SPECIFICATIONS ?? Because if thats true, then you cant even change a light bulb with out voiding your warranty!
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      06-20-2011, 09:34 PM   #59
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Dont worry dude.

You lost same exact argument over a year ago by providing false information as you continue to do so.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401615
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      06-20-2011, 09:51 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
I posted technically correct info. a year ago and it still stands. I suggest you contact a lawyer and pay for a legal opinion. You won't like the results but it is reality. Baseless legal claims on a forum don't work well in a court of law. See how well you do when BMW voids your warranty.

You still lost an argument to person who knows ten times more then you, who understands the warranty, the law and the entire shebang better then you!
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      06-20-2011, 10:04 PM   #61
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What ever helps you sleep at night.

Take care your self.
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      06-20-2011, 10:14 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoon86 View Post
I just want to add a little extra punch to my e93(I love my vert so don't suggest getting the coup/sedan). But to me it feels kind of sluggish compared to the coupe.

So my question is how can I improve its performance without voiding my warranty from BMW?
Buy an M5!
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      06-20-2011, 10:46 PM   #63
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Buy an M5!
A stock DCT M3 coupe is a lot closer to a stock SMG M5 than you might think.
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      06-21-2011, 02:10 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
A stock DCT M3 coupe is a lot closer to a stock SMG M5 than you might think.
Not in HP..... the M5 has 86 more HP no matter the performance.

The OP wanted more power while retaining his factory warranty....... The only way to do this is to buy a car with more power!
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      07-07-2011, 11:26 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
No I didn't lose an argument to anyone. He made unsubstantiated claims, (just as you have done), but he provide no proof what so ever of his interpretation of law being upheld in court. As with all cases there are two sides to a legal argument. If you look long enough you'll find someone to agree with your beliefs, even if they aren't supported in a court of law. That's how some lawyers cash in on naive people. If you're feeling lucky when BMW voids your warranty, take your case to court and see how it all works out. Then maybe you'll have a better understand of the terms and conditions of you new vehicle warranty.
A quick search of his posts, the last 3 months reveals very rare deviations from the following obsessive topics (Turn ons):

1. Engine Oil
2. HPFP Failures
3. Warranty questions related to the installment of aftermarket components

People Please,

http://www.flayme.com/troll/
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      07-08-2011, 12:36 AM   #66
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All I can say to the OP is adding HP without voiding warranty is like cheating on you wife without any consequences. You're just asking for trouble, so why risk your warranty? But to each his own. Good luck.
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