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      06-15-2011, 07:28 PM   #1
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Add HP without voiding warranty?

I just want to add a little extra punch to my e93(I love my vert so don't suggest getting the coup/sedan). But to me it feels kind of sluggish compared to the coupe.

So my question is how can I improve its performance without voiding my warranty from BMW?
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      06-15-2011, 07:34 PM   #2
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      06-15-2011, 08:10 PM   #3
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Get Dinan performance parts + software from the dealership
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      06-15-2011, 08:21 PM   #4
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exhaust , delete cats, intake
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      06-15-2011, 08:31 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by prichards516 View Post
Get Dinan performance parts + software from the dealership
Didn't know dealership offered Dinan performance parts, If I do it through the dealership I can keep original warranty?
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      06-15-2011, 08:33 PM   #6
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Dinan takes over BMW's warranty I think or you just keep BMW's original warranty. Dinan and BMW work together though, at my dealership they even advertise Dinan.
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      06-15-2011, 08:36 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
FYI - Any alteration to the vehicle's OE engineered specifications" is grounds for voiding that part of the warranty impacted by the alteration. That being the case any mods to the intake, exhaust, etc. "engineered specifications" can void your powertrain warranty.

This is just a friendly Public Service Announcement.
they have to prove that your "modification" caused the said problem...otherwise warranty remains intact
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      06-15-2011, 09:13 PM   #8
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they have to prove that your "modification" caused the said problem...otherwise warranty remains intact
Yup
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      06-15-2011, 09:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoon86 View Post
Didn't know dealership offered Dinan performance parts, If I do it through the dealership I can keep original warranty?
My SA said that their dealership will honor warranty issues even with the dinan parts. Not every dealership is an authorized dinan dealer so you might wanna check on dinancars.com
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      06-15-2011, 10:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoon86 View Post
I just want to add a little extra punch to my e93(I love my vert so don't suggest getting the coup/sedan). But to me it feels kind of sluggish compared to the coupe.

So my question is how can I improve its performance without voiding my warranty from BMW?
Your warranty does not become void when you mod your car. That is a myth that is perpetuated by people who are uneducated.

What happens in reality is that when you mod a car in a way that might have a serious chance of causing a faliure your warranty on the associated faliures becomes de-facto voided. Meaning that if you double your horsepower your power train warranty is voided or if you instal a tow hook the warranty on the associated aprts of your frame is de-facto voided.

The reason this is called de-facto void is because it is against the law in many parts of the world including the whole of the United States to void an automotive warranty claim based on a mod unless you have concrete proof that mod caused the faliure to happen. Unfortunately dealers do not follow this law even if it is the law, in your country, and instead they generally will deny a warranty claim is there is reasonable suspicion that your mod caused your warranty claim. So this is why serious mods cause de-facto voiding of certain parts of your warranty. Not because your warranty is voided in reality but because your mods are suspicious to a reasonable person in an associated claim.

BMW though has been known to void warranties in very rare cases. This is when a vehicle has been totaled or has had so much work done to it that it is essentially a new car. This is technically against the law for them to do in many places yet they still do it and it's reasonable of them to do so. They can also void certain parts of your warranty like your trunk if you were rear ended for example.

In some all too common cases a local BMW service rep will try to send a request to void your warranty for a simple mod to BMW corporate, out of complete misguidance because they too buy into the myth that your warranty is void with simple mods. There are a few examples of service reps doing this to members. The general response of BMW coporate is telling the service rep they are stupid though not with that exact wording.

In any case, it is an absolute myth that BMW can void your warranty for mods except in rare and justifiable cases where the car was rebuilt and is no longer their responsibility or where a car is just so far gone from factory spec that giving it a warranty isn't reasonable.

The only problem you'll run into is raising enough red flags to have certain warranty work denied by being too questionable. In Canada you have no recourse to arousing too much suspicion, and they can deny work on a hunch, so don't give them a serious reason to blame your mods and you won't have a problem.

If you want no questions asked in any service visit then just stick to doing a catted full exhaust, intake, pulley and other minor things.

If you were worried about putting a supercharger on and not being able to get your speakers fixed if they blow, that is a myth, false, and will never happen. If your driveline blows with a supercharger you'll be stuck with the bill for causing the problem but besides that you have nothing to worry about.

Dinan also makes heavily marked up parts that carry a full warranty so you will have no issues if you instal their parts too.

Hope that helps.
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      06-15-2011, 10:10 PM   #11
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      06-16-2011, 12:23 AM   #12
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      06-16-2011, 08:19 AM   #13
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      06-16-2011, 09:03 AM   #14
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Why people scare the crap out of them about mods will void the warranty? My car with no cats, exhaust, dropped, intake, leds all around, diffuser....a lot more and every single time i get into the dealer, no one asks me a single question about my mods and my warranty is still good. I visit more then one dealer for service or other stuff but never had a single problem with my warranty
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      06-16-2011, 01:39 PM   #15
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TrackRat is correct in this matter. I’ve read a lot about our warranty on this board lately and thought I could maybe help clear up the issue. Our warranty explicitly states on the first page of our Service and Warranty Information pamphlet:

“Damage which results from negligence,
improper operation of the vehicle, wear and
tear or deterioration due to driving habits or
conditions, improper repair, environmental
influences, flood, accident or fire damage, road
salt corrosion, alteration, installation of
non-genuine BMW accessories, or use of
improper, poor quality or contaminated fuel”


The warranty does not apply to (among other things) damage that results from improper repair or maintenance, or modification of the car or installation of any performance components which (i) alters the original engineering or operating specifications or (ii) results in damage to other original components of the car (including such things as electrical shorts, water leaks, etc.).

In essence, under the Magnuson-Moss act, a manufacturer is permitted to clearly state that the addition of aftermarket equipment that improves performance will void the warranty. I think the addition of that kind of aftermarket equipment is different from requiring you to have routine maintenance performed by a BMW dealer (which would not be permitted under the Act).

Even placing a K&N filter on your car can void the warranty, even though K&N states this very same Act. The difference lies in the fact our maintenance is free.

In part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c), as follows:
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if –

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefore.”
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.

The rules and regulations adopted by the FTC, to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states, in relevant part as follows:
“(c) No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.”


So, that could be a little too much for a post but I still have a little more…

Virtually all dealerships are franchises. That being said, they are separate entities, separate companies. Unrelated to BMW. BMW does have rules that go along with owning the rights to sell BMWs in a particular market and governs these but they are still separate. If a dealership breaks this relationship/rules or a dealership goes under, BMW can pull or buy that particular market.

In my opinion and experiences, it really all is dependent upon your relationship with that particular dealership and that dealership’s relationship to BMW. If they are all good, the more you can get away with, and the worse they are, the more scrutiny you will be given for any non-BMW part. It’s like a speed limit, it’s a rule, and it’s followed by some people to a T while others bend it a little. The dealership can choose to not speak of your modified parts to BMW or, if they want to be following the rules, report it to them. But in the end, BMW can come in at anytime, see your modified car and void your warranty even though the dealership may not.

“I also like to live dangerously.” I’m still going to mod
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      06-16-2011, 01:45 PM   #16
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Wtf- the SA at the closest dealer told me BMW doesnt work with Dinan anymore; install, etc.
Is he full of it then?
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      06-16-2011, 02:03 PM   #17
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just go aftermarket. fck it - i have xpipes! the SA and mechanic loved it.
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      06-16-2011, 02:04 PM   #18
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this

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sexyfd View Post

In my opinion and experiences, it really all is dependent upon your relationship with that particular dealership and that dealership’s relationship to BMW. If they are all good, the more you can get away with, and the worse they are, the more scrutiny you will be given for any non-BMW part. It’s like a speed limit, it’s a rule, and it’s followed by some people to a T while others bend it a little. The dealership can choose to not speak of your modified parts to BMW or, if they want to be following the rules, report it to them. But in the end, BMW can come in at anytime, see your modified car and void your warranty even though the dealership may not.

“I also like to live dangerously.” I’m still going to mod
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      06-16-2011, 03:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sexyfd View Post
TrackRat is correct in this matter. I’ve read a lot about our warranty on this board lately and thought I could maybe help clear up the issue. Our warranty explicitly states on the first page of our Service and Warranty Information pamphlet:

“Damage which results from negligence,
improper operation of the vehicle, wear and
tear or deterioration due to driving habits or
conditions, improper repair, environmental
influences, flood, accident or fire damage, road
salt corrosion, alteration, installation of
non-genuine BMW accessories, or use of
improper, poor quality or contaminated fuel”


The warranty does not apply to (among other things) damage that results from improper repair or maintenance, or modification of the car or installation of any performance components which (i) alters the original engineering or operating specifications or (ii) results in damage to other original components of the car (including such things as electrical shorts, water leaks, etc.).

In essence, under the Magnuson-Moss act, a manufacturer is permitted to clearly state that the addition of aftermarket equipment that improves performance will void the warranty. I think the addition of that kind of aftermarket equipment is different from requiring you to have routine maintenance performed by a BMW dealer (which would not be permitted under the Act).

Even placing a K&N filter on your car can void the warranty, even though K&N states this very same Act. The difference lies in the fact our maintenance is free.

In part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c), as follows:
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if –

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefore.”
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.

The rules and regulations adopted by the FTC, to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states, in relevant part as follows:
“(c) No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.”




All it says is that a dealer can chose to void the warranty if it wishes to, but does not have to. But first, Dealer has to prove that aftermarket part has caused the damage to any of the EOM factory components or the rest of the vehicle.

And its common sense that no dealer will warranty an aftermarket part it self, unless the dealer sells an aftermarket parts like many dealers do.
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      06-16-2011, 03:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
All it says is that a dealer can chose to void the warranty if it wishes to, but does not have to. But first, Dealer has to prove that aftermarket part has caused the damage to any of the EOM factory components or the rest of the vehicle.

And its common sense that no dealer will warranty an aftermarket part it self, unless the dealer sells an aftermarket parts like many dealers do.
I would say this is true for most car manufactures, but given that our warranty & scheduled maintenance is “free” the law has implied that BMW does not have to prove it given the clear statement in their warranty pamphlet and the fact that it is free of charge, which is stated in that act as well.

And it's BMW that voids the warranty, not the dealership. But that's getting too technical. The dealership gets paid every time work gets preformed on a car. If it's warranty or scheduled maintenance, BMW foots the bill instead of us. But I guess, in theory, we just paid for it up front when we bought the car.
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      06-16-2011, 03:45 PM   #21
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Question for TrackRat:

What happens if a warranty is voided on a leased car?
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      06-16-2011, 03:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sexyfd View Post
I would say this is true for most car manufactures, but given that our warranty & scheduled maintenance is “free” the law has implied that BMW does not have to prove it given the clear statement in their warranty pamphlet and the fact that it is free of charge, which is stated in that act as well.

And it's BMW that voids the warranty, not the dealership. But that's getting too technical. The dealership gets paid every time work gets preformed on a car. If it's warranty or scheduled maintenance, BMW foots the bill instead of us. But I guess, in theory, we just paid for it up front when we bought the car.


Dealer can chose to void the warranty before it contacts BMW.

Free maintenance has nothing to do with warranty at all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
As noted in several posts above the warranty is a Conditional Contract. Alterations to the engineered specifications are grounds for voiding the specific area of the warranty impacted by the alteration. The MM Act has no bearing on alterations, it is for OEM spec replacement service parts, not alterations. All BMW has to show is the vehicle's engineered specs have been altered.

BMW Warranty terms:

“Damage which results from negligence,
improper operation of the vehicle, wear and
tear or deterioration due to driving habits or
conditions, improper repair, environmental
influences, flood, accident or fire damage, road
salt corrosion, alteration, installation of
non-genuine BMW accessories, or use of
improper, poor quality or contaminated fuel”

What engineered specs exactly?? That the flow of the exhaust gases travel faster with aftermarket exhaust system? I have yet to see any dealer have one piece of equipment that can test the so called "vehicle's engineered specs have been altered".





Here is the issue and a solution as well. Its kind of a loop hole in all warranties, the good and the bad.

No manufacturer of any vehicle can force you to replace an exhaust or intake filter with parts only made by your car maker just so you can keep your warranty. Just because you dont want to pay $4,000 for new exhaust system from your dealer because you need a new one, you can buy a new one for $1,000 at a local parts store that does the same and is State legal with all State emissions. Thus no car maker for these reasons can void your warranty.
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