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      06-04-2011, 10:45 PM   #1
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M Performance Exhaust vs. OEM stock

I shot some video of the exhaust. Hopefully it helps convey a bit of the sound.



Errr ... Embed function here seems to be broken. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/embed/L9srS_sA8yU

What the video doesn't really capture are the harmonics of the note at higher rpms during acceleration. It's a lovely sound!

I painted the muffler cans first, following the advice of others here. (Thanks!) Definitely was worth the effort, as you can see.




Yes, the car is pretty dirty in the video and pics. I detailed her today, but wasn't up to shooting more.
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      06-05-2011, 12:53 AM   #2
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Thanks for that video. For some reason, doesn't sound too flattering there. Almost like an American V8. But the real test is under acceleration, just like you said. Since there's less restriction, I wonder if you felt any reduction in torque down low. That's why I'm thinking about just modifying the stock exhaust. Way cheaper, and wouldn't change anything, other than being louder outside. I also didn't like the tips too much; look dull. I like chromed ones better. Maybe polishing them?
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      06-05-2011, 04:27 AM   #3
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Good video. Looks much better since you painted the cans.

Sound is subjective. Anything louder than OEM is good in my book. I was expecting a lot more from the performance exhaust. Still need to hear it in person to compare with my eisenman race which i truly love.
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      06-05-2011, 08:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
Thanks for that video. For some reason, doesn't sound too flattering there. Almost like an American V8. But the real test is under acceleration, just like you said. Since there's less restriction, I wonder if you felt any reduction in torque down low. That's why I'm thinking about just modifying the stock exhaust. Way cheaper, and wouldn't change anything, other than being louder outside. I also didn't like the tips too much; look dull. I like chromed ones better. Maybe polishing them?
I confess it's that low rumble I love. I can't say I feel more torque, but I haven't really tested it yet.

The dull tips is an effect of the photography angle, and that we're looking at the shaded side of the car. Here are a couple of other shots showing the polished titanium tips. (Factory polished that is. I haven't polished them any more so far. Any suggestions for polish ideal for titanium?)



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      06-05-2011, 08:46 AM   #5
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It certainly doesn't sound anything like an American V8.
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      06-05-2011, 09:42 AM   #6
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As mentioned in my posts in other threads, the video clips fail to do justice by this exhaust. You need to be in the driver's seat to hear it and enjoy it. As you go thru the gears at varied acceleration it is music to the ears.

While I appreciate the posting of the video clips revving while stand still of drive by, there is not a single video with what the driver hears and experiences at the driver's seat. That's what's important not what others hear.

Thank you for the video and it's not a personal criticism.
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      06-05-2011, 10:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
As mentioned in my posts in other threads, the video clips fail to do justice by this exhaust. You need to be in the driver's seat to hear it and enjoy it. As you go thru the gears at varied acceleration it is music to the ears.

While I appreciate the posting of the video clips revving while stand still of drive by, there is not a single video with what the driver hears and experiences at the driver's seat. That's what's important not what others hear.

Thank you for the video and it's not a personal criticism.
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      06-05-2011, 11:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
As mentioned in my posts in other threads, the video clips fail to do justice by this exhaust. You need to be in the driver's seat to hear it and enjoy it. As you go thru the gears at varied acceleration it is music to the ears.

While I appreciate the posting of the video clips revving while stand still of drive by, there is not a single video with what the driver hears and experiences at the driver's seat. That's what's important not what others hear.

Thank you for the video and it's not a personal criticism.
Look a little harder.

Skip to 2:34

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      06-05-2011, 01:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llis View Post
I can't say I feel more torque
You won't . I was asking if you felt LESS at lower rpm.

And the tips look great on the last pictures indeed .

I'm glad that last video was posted. Just don't like the sound that much. Can't describe why (a combination of 'screamy', raspy, and American V8, maybe? ), but now I'm convinced it's either a stock modification or leaving it alone, like the last 2 years. Was close to pulling the trigger on one; thanks Kitw .
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      06-05-2011, 01:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
As mentioned in my posts in other threads, the video clips fail to do justice by this exhaust. You need to be in the driver's seat to hear it and enjoy it. As you go thru the gears at varied acceleration it is music to the ears.

While I appreciate the posting of the video clips revving while stand still of drive by, there is not a single video with what the driver hears and experiences at the driver's seat. That's what's important not what others hear.

Thank you for the video and it's not a personal criticism.
Look a little harder.

Skip to 2:34

Good vid.
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      06-05-2011, 01:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
You won't . I was asking if you felt LESS at lower rpm.

And the tips look great on the last pictures indeed .

I'm glad that last video was posted. Just don't like the sound that much. Can't describe why (a combination of 'screamy', raspy, and American V8, maybe? ), but now I'm convinced it's either a stock modification or leaving it alone, like the last 2 years. Was close to pulling the trigger on one; thanks Kitw .
Do you seriously believe bmw develops and 3500 dollar system that doesnt give you the same torque low down? And do you believe that he would feel less torque, that would mean that the torque is decreased by not just a margin. You are wrong. The sources I have is saying a small gain, maybe its bs maybe not, but reduce the torque thats stupid
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      06-05-2011, 02:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swedish M3ffia View Post
Do you seriously believe bmw develops and 3500 dollar system that doesnt give you the same torque low down?
If you know anything about engines, there's no free lunch man. A higher flowing exhaust increases a few HP at the higher (and sometimes mid) end of the rev range, while reducing torque a bit down low. It's very little in both cases, but sometimes the lack of low-end torque is felt more than the increase in top-end HP. Anybody slapping an ehaust on his car knows (or should know) that trade-off, even though sellers claim ridiculous gains 'throughout the rev range'. A simple and legitimate question. And yes, the reason for any exhaust should be SOUND alone, since any gains/losses are minimal.

And the only 'stupid' here is using the word without reason. Ignored .

By the way, the only way to have the best of both worlds is with valves, which are mighty expensive. But some people (including me), don't like the 'jekyll and hyde' personality of those. And some cars, like the Ferrari F430, lose a tremendous amount of low-end torque without the required back pressure. With the valves open, it's totally gutless below 2K rpm, and still pretty bad below 3K. My M3 feels like a Corvette by comparison. Have to rev engine to almost 2K to avoid stalling it, when on the M3 just above 1K is plenty. But above 3K the M3 feels like a minivan by comparison . And yes, MUCH prefer the linearity of the S65 .

Last edited by elp_jc; 06-05-2011 at 07:22 PM.
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      06-05-2011, 04:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
If you know anything about engines, there's no free lunch man. A higher flowing exhaust increases a few HP at the higher (and sometimes mid) end of the rev range, while reducing torque a bit down low. It's very little in both cases, but sometimes the lack of low-end torque is felt more than the increase in top-end HP. Anybody slapping an ehaust on his car knows (or should know) that trade-off, even though sellers claim ridiculous gains 'throughout the rev range'. A simple and legitimate question. And yes, the reason for any exhaust should be SOUND alone, since any gains/losses are minimal.

And the only 'stupid' here is using the word without reason. Ignored .
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      06-06-2011, 07:08 AM   #14
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The bumper video is interesting, but it's not the sound I hear when I accelerate through canyons. There are harmonics missing, and that harsh rattle sounds like the mic distorting when it's pinned out, not the exhaust noise. I imagine the mics on the GoPro and Contour are just not up to the task.
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      06-06-2011, 11:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llis View Post
The bumper video is interesting, but it's not the sound I hear when I accelerate through canyons. There are harmonics missing, and that harsh rattle sounds like the mic distorting when it's pinned out, not the exhaust noise. I imagine the mics on the GoPro and Contour are just not up to the task.
You have to remember that Kit's video has the turner pipes installed which cuts out the primary oem cats.
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      06-06-2011, 12:20 PM   #16
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You have to remember that Kit's video has the turner pipes installed which cuts out the primary oem cats.
That's was major omission; thanks for pointing that out . Guess all folks considering just the catback need to disregard that video .

As a side comment, a friend with an Aston just asked me last weekend to drive his car aggressively so he could hear how it sounded outside (and also shoot video clips) after he replaced the stock 700-cell cats with 200 ones, and the difference was startling.
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      06-06-2011, 12:24 PM   #17
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Here is the thing I have noticed....exhaust sounds completely different whether you are outside and behind car, inside the car with windows up, or inside with windows down...the car is much much louder than you would think when you are inside with windows up.
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      06-06-2011, 12:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
That's was major omission; thanks for pointing that out . Guess all folks considering just the catback need to disregard that video .

As a side comment, a friend with an Aston just asked me last weekend to drive his car aggressively so he could hear how it sounded outside (and also shoot video clips) after he replaced the stock 700-cell cats with 200 ones, and the difference was startling.

Elp,

You are a hard man to please when it comes to exhausts......btw, still not up for sale hehe.
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      06-06-2011, 12:52 PM   #19
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You are a hard man to please when it comes to exhausts...
Not really, but each of us have a different expectation of how we want our exhaust to sound, both inside and outside the car. And the problem is you just can't rely on video clips to make that decision; it's a hit or miss that way, and I'd guess mostly miss . For instance, I wasn't expecting the BMW performance exhaust to sound noticeably louder inside the car, but by your statement, it does. And spending 4 grand blindly doesn't make sense to me anymore. I've probably bought a dozen exhaust systems over the years, and none performed the way video clips and descriptions made me believe they would. Reason is each person has different tastes in sound, different definition/tolerance of drone, etc. Nothing like hearing one in person, and riding shotgun for the all important cabin aspect of it. Oh, and don't forget folks who don't list other mods that affect the sound and noise levels.

Since I use this car mostly for long trips, interior noise is critical to me. Car is pretty noisy already, so exhaust can be a bit louder inside, but NOT above road/wind noise, or overall interior noise would be even more. That reminds me I need to order new DWS tires (have been backordered for months) to reduce road noise, which is ridiculous with the PS2s over rough asphalt (prevalent here in the desert southwest). Take care man.
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      06-06-2011, 01:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
If you know anything about engines, there's no free lunch man. A higher flowing exhaust increases a few HP at the higher (and sometimes mid) end of the rev range, while reducing torque a bit down low.
This is a very common misconception.

Engines do NOT need backpressure. Increasing the scavenging pulls in more air, no matter what.

However, there is a reason that BMW does not quote a power difference... there isn't one with a catback. The factory catback flows well enough to where there is zero difference.

Even with the cat removal, there is no power loss anywhere practical to dyno. (there may be some 2000 rpm and below, but it's not enough to matter, and BMW limits throttle there anyway)
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      06-06-2011, 01:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
Not really, but each of us have a different expectation of how we want our exhaust to sound, both inside and outside the car. And the problem is you just can't rely on video clips to make that decision; it's a hit or miss that way, and I'd guess mostly miss . For instance, I wasn't expecting the BMW performance exhaust to sound noticeably louder inside the car, but by your statement, it does. And spending 4 grand blindly doesn't make sense to me anymore. I've probably bought a dozen exhaust systems over the years, and none performed the way video clips and descriptions made me believe they would. Reason is each person has different tastes in sound, different definition/tolerance of drone, etc. Nothing like hearing one in person, and riding shotgun for the all important cabin aspect of it. Oh, and don't forget folks who don't list other mods that affect the sound and noise levels.

Since I use this car mostly for long trips, interior noise is critical to me. Car is pretty noisy already, so exhaust can be a bit louder inside, but NOT above road/wind noise, or overall interior noise would be even more. That reminds me I need to order new DWS tires (have been backordered for months) to reduce road noise, which is ridiculous with the PS2s over rough asphalt (prevalent here in the desert southwest). Take care man.
So, I ran the BMW perf exhaust with both the cats in and out.

The cats make a big difference under wide open throttle and, inside the car with the windows up, almost ZERO difference on light throttle and cruise.

Sound clips are pretty effective if you know what you are listening to. I can definitely tell which of the exhausts I have are loud, and which drone by listening to the videos, but it's because I have a good frame of reference. Unfortunately, most cheap camera have an auto gain function that limits the actual volume of what it records, so you have to use context clues to really determine. Things like warning bongs, radio, etc, etc.
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      06-06-2011, 01:52 PM   #22
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M Performance Sound is too big for basic video cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
Since I use this car mostly for long trips, interior noise is critical to me. Car is pretty noisy already, so exhaust can be a bit louder inside, but NOT above road/wind noise, or overall interior noise would be even more.
M Performance Exhaust adds almost no drone (most noticeable at 2k rpm). Inside the car, it's quite quiet at low rpms. At high rpms it's definitely louder, but it's hard to distinguish from the sound coming directly from the engine.

Standing outside the idling car, it's definitely louder and more rumbly, especially if you are within eyesight of the pipes. It's a quieter effect standing next to or in front of the car.

Driving windows down through vertical rock canyons I got the best sense of how the car sounds under hard acceleration. It's a beautiful roar with harmonics (i.e., multiple notes) that you just don't hear on the videos. I like it more than other exhausts I've heard in person and known what I was hearing (Dinan, UUC, Eisenmann, Meisterschaft GT2). I am still intrigued by Vorsteiner and Akrapovic Evolution (which as a full system is another animal altogether, I realize), and have heard other E9x-series M3s with sweet notes, but I definitely have absolutely no regrets in getting the M Performance Exhaust.

I will get some drive-by video in a couple of weeks at a track event, but I am not sure how true to life the sound will be. Maybe it will take recording it with a quality mic and a Nagra to capture any sense of the nuances within the roar.
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