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      03-29-2007, 09:23 PM   #1
timn
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Can my boss say that he expects me to work 10 hours minimum a day?

I had a crazy day today, and I feel like sh*t.

I was hoping someone would know the answer to this question.

Basically, I started taking public transportation to work. By taking the train, I save 50 miles a day on my 335i (and its cheaper!) , But, Because of this, my work schedule is set. I arrive to work at 8am and leave work at 6pm to catch the train home.

My boss wasn't happy about this, because there are times I would stay to 8pm, or later. And he basically said that he can't rely on me. He then stated that he expects me to work a minimum of 10 hours a day. And if you add my hours, 8am-6pm w/ 1 hr lunch is only 9 hours...I'm salaried, so the more I stay, the more diluted my pay gets .

He basically threatened me, and said that if I continued to take the train to work, that he sees problems in the future for me. What he means is that he sees last minute tasks popping up and not being able to have me do them because "I have to catch the train."

In all honesty, I started taking the train to avoid these long hours. I hate the fact that other co workers leave at 5pm because they have a family, and that is regarded as OK. I dont mean any disrespect by this comment, but the fact that I am expected to stay later because I'm single is BS.

Anyway, aren't there laws against this? I feel that my job is on the line if I don't start staying from 8am - 7pm.....

p.s. my boss is a dickhead.


An update......

I talked to the director. She was very understanding of the situation. She basically said that my boss shouldn't have said that taking the train would put my career at risk. One thing to remember is that I do not meet with the director on a regular basis. But, my manager does. She said that it was good that I stopped in to show her my side of how my relationship is with my manager. She says that we both have valid points in our work distress, and that she'll have to think about how to best handle the situation over the weekend. Overall, I feel a bit relieved.

Last edited by timn; 03-31-2007 at 01:25 AM.
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      03-29-2007, 09:29 PM   #2
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You're right, your boss is a dick. I say screw him and tell him tomorrow that you quit. Spend 9AM-5PM looking for a new job and then you can go home at 5PM.
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      03-29-2007, 09:31 PM   #3
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I feel ya dude, is your company decent-sized? if so, I'm sure there's an HR department that you can seek advice from.
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      03-29-2007, 09:32 PM   #4
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I feel ya dude, is your company decent-sized? if so, I'm sure there's an HR department that you can seek advice from.
30 people. it's a "startup". I've been there over a year, I put my time in (lots of long nights), and I'm burnt out, but now that he expects me to be there long hours is pretty ridiculous, to me. I may try talking to the director of engineering (his boss) to see what I can do. Since we're so small, the director of our group would handle this.
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      03-29-2007, 09:37 PM   #5
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oh.., that's a toughie then, when it's a small to medium sized company, there's really nothing you can do except leave and fine a better suited job for ya.

It's not fair that he demand you to stay for 10 hours, if you were paid by the hour, hey why not
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      03-29-2007, 09:39 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by canucklion View Post
oh.., that's a toughie then, when it's a small to medium sized company, there's really nothing you can do except leave and fine a better suited job for ya.

It's not fair that he demand you to stay for 10 hours, if you were paid by the hour, hey why not

Yea, that's true. I was a contractor here, and my long hours equated to big pay.

But, I got hired full time, and setup with a new boss (the current one) and life has been not so hot since then.
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      03-29-2007, 09:39 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by bmw_executive View Post
You're right, your boss is a dick. I say screw him and tell him tomorrow that you quit. Spend 9AM-5PM looking for a new job and then you can go home at 5PM.
Yeah that's exactly what you do when you're 16. Ass. People hardly ever walk out on a job in the REAL world, which you know nothing about. And yes a boss can ask you to work longer, it's called "getting ahead". It's common practice in many fields. You think doctors in training work 24 hour shifts for shits and giggles? No they have to. Again own up to your life shit head.
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      03-29-2007, 09:42 PM   #8
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thats what happends when your salary!
if your salary isnt enough, then renegotiate your salary...
if your real good at what you do then you have some leverage
my thoughts are that if your the best then you should get paid for it!
jobs are a dime a dozen!

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      03-29-2007, 09:42 PM   #9
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Are you the only person in the office being treated this way? If so then it's a problem. Go above him and voice your issue. If you're not then you may need to find a new job if you can't put up with that kind of work schedule. I know plenty of places that run new staff that way, it weeds out slackers or people who aren't really interested in that profession, company, etc.
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      03-29-2007, 09:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkcloud View Post
Are you the only person in the office being treated this way? If so then it's a problem. Go above him and voice your issue. If you're not then you may need to find a new job if you can't put up with that kind of work schedule. I know plenty of places that run new staff that way, it weeds out slackers or people who aren't really interested in that profession, company, etc.
I've been here for 1 year and 5 months. I don't consider myself "new" in a company that's 2.5 years old. For the other question, no one else has a minimum time stay put on them. Yes, there are days that more hours must be committed to get the work done, I realize this. But for the most part, If I had a penny for the # of times I was in before 25% of the company and when I left, there were less than 25% of the company left, I would have a lot of pennies.

And no, i'm not slacking off at work. I get my stuff done, and can judge when I really do need to work more (even if it's at home). But the biggest problem my boss has is that he cannot shove last minute work onto my plate...
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      03-29-2007, 09:48 PM   #11
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I believe that California has maximum work week hours legislation even though I don't know what that max may be.

On the other hand, working hard to get ahead is part of the programme. I have been working for a while now, and frankly, leaving at 6 is exceptional for me (early). And if I do leave early, I then work from home once I have attended to family. I have not heard many stories of success without hard work (other than winning the lottery or similar Mana from heaven stories).

So I guess there is choice you will have to make-even though you are likely correct in being frustrated. Look at it from your boss's perspective-you are young, good at what you do, and still single AND the company does have work that needs to get done in a context where other co-workers would be torn bcs of familly. If you were that boss who indeed would you choose to fall back on. Perhaps you can use this to your advantage-talk about stock options or salary increase, say that you see his point and are willing to go the extra mile, as long as appropriately compensated. I duno, just writing out loud.
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      03-29-2007, 09:49 PM   #12
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I am not an expert, but I believe that FLSA law (Fair Labor Standards Act) says something to the effect that exempt employees cannot be required to always work in excess of 40 hours per week. They can be required to work over 40 hours when needed. But that cannot be your regular schedule. I would read up on it.

At the same time, you need to know that reality is not always the same as the law. Often, when people believe they are making more money than they are worth, they will work the OT endlessly.

The law is on your side, but it's a pain in the ass to do anything about it.

Weigh your actions very carefully. Don't believe but maybe 1/10th of what a lawyer will tell you. That's being generous.
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      03-29-2007, 09:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timn View Post
I've been here for 1 year and 5 months. I don't consider myself "new" in a company that's 2.5 years old. For the other question, no one else has a minimum time stay put on them. Yes, there are days that more hours must be committed to get the work done, I realize this. But for the most part, If I had a penny for the # of times I was in before 25% of the company and when I left, there were less than 25% of the company left, I would have a lot of pennies.

And no, i'm not slacking off at work. I get my stuff done, and can judge when I really do need to work more (even if it's at home). But the biggest problem my boss has is that he cannot shove last minute work onto my plate...
Well then go to HR or the manager above your boss and have a talk. Your manager just may not like you for no apparent reason . You may want to just start looking for a new job. Maybe it's time for a change of scenery. Eventully only good will come from this.
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      03-29-2007, 09:52 PM   #14
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that's part of working dude

I get that all the time, everything needs to be done yesterday.

Quote:
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But the biggest problem my boss has is that he cannot shove last minute work onto my plate...
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      03-29-2007, 09:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerista View Post

So I guess there is choice you will have to make-even though you are likely correct in being frustrated. Look at it from your boss's perspective-you are young, good at what you do, and still single AND the company does have work that needs to get done in a context where other co-workers would be torn bcs of familly. If you were that boss who indeed would you choose to fall back on. Perhaps you can use this to your advantage-talk about stock options or salary increase, say that you see his point and are willing to go the extra mile, as long as appropriately compensated. I duno, just writing out loud.
I agree with you on the extra compensation. But if I ever want to keep a steady girlfriend, and have a family, this job is going to hurt me. I used to say that money made me smile. As a software engineer at a medical device company, I'm compensated fairly well. But, no amount of reasonable pay would make me give up my mid 20s for what they are asking. Imagine that I come in from 8am to 8pm. I'll get home at 8:30, and finish cleaning up my dishes at 10pm, then sort through errands and personal stuff, and it's probably 11pm or midnight. Sleep till 6am and start all over.

But you're right, it's a choice I may have to make, personal wealth or personal growth.
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      03-29-2007, 09:55 PM   #16
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Fair labor standards act applies and so do CA state laws like the above post mentions, subject to numerous conditions and exceptions. I recommend speaking with a supervisor or speaking directly to this asshole. I firmly believe in being a strong individual rather than a suck up in the corporate framework. If it works out, great you made a tough situation better. If it does not work out, then the fit wasn't right and good thing you are done there. Life is too short to deal with assholes on a daily basis. I also suggest you are 100% sure you are getting your work done and that it is excellent. If not, get that done first then raise the issue with superiors. P.S., if this boss if suggesting he sees problems for you in the future there, I think that's a hint to look for a new gig anyway.
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      03-29-2007, 09:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Well then go to HR or the manager above your boss and have a talk. Your manager just may not like you for no apparent reason . You may want to just start looking for a new job. Maybe it's time for a change of scenery. Eventully only good will come from this.
I really appreciated your opinion from earlier, and I hope I didn't come off as brushing you off.

That's why I posted on this forum, because what I'm thinking, might not be right, and more minds can only help
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      03-29-2007, 10:01 PM   #18
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Just wanted to comment about the legal standpoint. Pursuing that angle is not likely to be of any benefit at all. It would likely be a pain in the ass. Even if you had a good case, contracted a lawyer, won the case, got paid some amount, it is still limited to something like double what the company owed you, and some kind of penalty. Even that is nothing when you consider potential employers calling your current one to ask if they would hire you again. They would get a very quick, "NO!"

If you can't deal with it internally at the company, then look for a job that will fit better. Still, some of the time that is a grass is greener thing. I'm sure there are a lot of people who can confirm the grass really is greener, but don't count on it.
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      03-29-2007, 10:02 PM   #19
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I agree, quitting is not as easy as 1, 2, 3. It takes a while to prepare to 'quit' actually, you need to have already found another job.

Quote:
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Yeah that's exactly what you do when you're 16. Ass. People hardly ever walk out on a job in the REAL world, which you know nothing about. And yes a boss can ask you to work longer, it's called "getting ahead". It's common practice in many fields. You think doctors in training work 24 hour shifts for shits and giggles? No they have to. Again own up to your life shit head.
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      03-29-2007, 10:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timn View Post
I agree with you on the extra compensation. But if I ever want to keep a steady girlfriend, and have a family, this job is going to hurt me. I used to say that money made me smile. As a software engineer at a medical device company, I'm compensated fairly well. But, no amount of reasonable pay would make me give up my mid 20s for what they are asking. Imagine that I come in from 8am to 8pm. I'll get home at 8:30, and finish cleaning up my dishes at 10pm, then sort through errands and personal stuff, and it's probably 11pm or midnight. Sleep till 6am and start all over.

But you're right, it's a choice I may have to make, personal wealth or personal growth.
Agood point has has been made by others that perhaps your boss is ridding you bcs of a personality thing-only you can tell.

Look, it may also be a lifestyle choice; when I started out I did work from 8-8 pretty much every day. Sometimes longer hours, sometimes all weekend. Sometimes I would pull 36 hours or more without sleep (my personal record is 53 hours with 4 hours sleep-at work in small increments whenever I could) to make a deadline. This happened more frequently earlier on in my career but it still happens now (more infrequently). For a long time I was underpaid even compared to a buss driver (per hour) where I live. Today I can structure my carrer to work less intensely and I make a very decent living. But the first few years were the sweatshop passage rite like for many of us. Some of my early collegues did not like the lifestyle and changed professions altogether. Ultimately this problem may be a good point to consider everything-simply changing jobs may only lead to changing the place you work not how you feel about it. But if you do like what you do, don't hesitate to put your shoulder into it. If you love what you do the rewards come afterwards.

Crap I sound like my late father...
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      03-29-2007, 11:02 PM   #21
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When you were hired...was there any sort of paperwork, contract, offer letter, or anything that was signed outlining you job duties, expectations, salary, benefits...etc.

If so, it should clearly state what he considers to be full time. That is what was agreed upon...and that is what you should abide to. If it is not in your favor...then it may be time to look for another job. If it is in your favor...then discuss the terms...and renegotiate with him.

Good luck man!
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      03-29-2007, 11:20 PM   #22
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Isn't it a law in California that you can't exceed 8 hours of work per day excluding breaks?
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