BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-26-2011, 11:44 PM   #133
aus
Major General
117
Rep
7,406
Posts

 
Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
You will never understand where I am coming from.......and that is ok. But if you are confused and think ///M SUV's are fun and look hot, then you and I will absolutely never see eye-to-eye.

Cheers,
e46e92


I agree completely. Most people here don't have any idea about what at //M car used to represent. There was a great article with the guy who used to run //M, before Segler destroyed the brand.
He commented that the //M philosophy is a relatively lightweight, rear drive, car which would rule out any SUV or a 7 series. The engine would have to be NA and high revving, like a race car. The new //M's have NONE of these attributes.

Most people who buy //M's now are just a product of the success of the brand and the marketing.
I ask a friend to go to the track (not that I'm admitting to taking this car to the track), and he say's he just got his car detailed, so doesn't want to go since it may ding his paint. Meanwhile, he tells other people how he goes for these awesome drives with other M3 guys.
That's the new //M owner.

It's also too bad they won't do the sedan. I make use of all 3 seats in my wife's 335 and was thinking of getting and E90 M3 when my lease ends so she could get something else. This way I could take the family to a track event too.

.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."

Last edited by aus; 05-27-2011 at 04:38 PM.
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2011, 11:59 PM   #134
Definitive
definitivecars.com
Definitive's Avatar
United_States
94
Rep
3,793
Posts

 
Drives: Elsa - 2015 F80 M3 - YMB/SS
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to Definitive Send a message via MSN to Definitive
E90 M3 to the X3M to the F30 M3

All I can say is -----
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 12:31 AM   #135
lux
First Lieutenant
United_States
7
Rep
321
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M3 F80 dct
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

M3 Gran Coupe FTW!!! I look forward to seeing future spy shots and the next gen engine choice. So it looks like I got 5 more years to mod my e90 until my next ride.
__________________
2015 F80 M3 | AW | SO | DCT | All OEM
2011 e90 M3 | SSII | FR | ZCP | DCT | Full Akra Evo | AngeliBright
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 02:26 AM   #136
ihyln
Banned
United_States
42
Rep
3,385
Posts

 
Drives: M3post sucks
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: M3post sucks

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
2002 530i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to ihyln
Looks like BMW finally listened and dropped the M3 GT idea. A gran coupe is much more favorable and a decent compromise between having 4 doors and nothing. I still wish they would stick with N/A. I find FI disappointing, boring, DI introduces carbon buildup, and as BMW has shown us with the HPFP, quite problematic. "greener" isn't better in some cases
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 02:28 AM   #137
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
214
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

It just like music. When no one knew about Nirvana and you saw them live with Hole in a small club in Tijuana they were epic. Later, when every jock and joe-jerk-off whom they sang about and despised liked them, some of their immense appeal was absolutely gone.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 02:33 AM   #138
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
214
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Everyone seems to be convergently evolving toward the same government-issue powerplant.
Didn't we agree that cost savings have just as much or more to do with the future direction of M engines as opposed to government regulation? No, I remember, we did not agree . Nonetheless it is so. Either way there is simply no evidence showing a true forcing hand from government. Hasn't there also been some general consensus among the more well informed (and better guessers) here that BMW continues to build top notch engines and will probably offer some very strong innovation in the next M3 engine?
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 02:44 AM   #139
MI6
The World is Not Enough
MI6's Avatar
United_States
64
Rep
1,062
Posts

 
Drives: Aston DBS-R
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Skyfall

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
M3 will remain.

Despite the Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe being renamed 4er.
The key is Individuality. M3 is not just a faster 3er it is a totally different car , drives differently and does not even have the same drivetrain.
Scott, when is the 4er Gran Coupe expected to premiere?

Same time or a little after the F32 in 2013?
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 06:05 AM   #140
808E90
808E90
808E90's Avatar
United_States
81
Rep
4,019
Posts

 
Drives: E90 ///M
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aloha State

iTrader: (21)

Dang This is making me really think twice about selling my E90 M3 ...
__________________
LTMW FTL . Karbonwerks LCI Trunk . Vorsteiner Poly Front Lip . NA Motorsports LUX H8 . RECARO Pole Position Seats . BMW Performance Pedals . BMW Performance Performance Grills . BMW Painted Fender Grills . BBS 19x9.5 19x11 LMs . Michelin PS2 265/295 . H&R Sport Springs . Wheel Mate 45/55MM Stud Kit . BBS Red Lug Nuts . ESS VT1 Supercharger . Akrapovic GT4 Exhaust
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 08:05 AM   #141
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
183
Rep
13,833
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
If this new ///M engine (which will be the basis for so many other halo 3-series M vehicles thru 2016) is going to debut with the new X3M, that just doesn't seem very plausible!

In other words, a brand new, hi-tech engine would debut in a M3 coupe, or gran coupe or something other than an older 3-platform SUV that got turned into an ///M.
Words like "brand new" and "hi-tech" sort of muddy the waters. Let's just keep this simple.

The X3M is going to debut a brand new M-specific 6 cylinder engine. This engine will be based upon an existing series engine, but have many M specific features. Later, this engine - probably with some modifications - wil also be used in the M3 (in all its various body styles). To see an analogous scenario that has already played out in real life, simply look at the X5 M and X6 M. They debuted an M-developed S63 V8 which shares many parts (including the entire long-block, AFAIK, though don't quote me on that), with the N63 V8 used in the 5, 6, 7, X5, X6. This engine was then repurposed for duty in the new (imminent) M5 and soon will be used in the new M6 as well, including all of its variants (coupe, convertible, Gran Coupe).

(And BTW, the new X3 is not using an "older 3 platform". It was the first vehicle built and released on the modular F2x/F3x platform, that will underpin every single small and medium RWD BMW for the next few years.)

I think that, while there's nothing to prove that what happened so far as far as the 5/6-sized vehicles dictates what will come next with the 3/4-sized vehicles, with SCOTT's latest info there's not much point to continue a debate on it, IMHO. If you don't believe it yet, you will soon. In the meantime keep examining the writing on the wall and trying to accept it.

Now there is still one big question. And that is, will this new M engine be an I6 based on the N55 (or perhaps based on a future I6 engine that replaces the N55) or will it instead be a V6 based on an N63 (or perhaps a future V8 that replaces the N63) with two less cylinders? I've made it pretty clear in various other threads which of these two I think makes the most sense, and therefore which of these two I think will come to pass. However, the debate is still very much open and there seems to be some pretty passionate folks on both sides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
M3 will remain.

Despite the Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe being renamed 4er.
The key is Individuality. M3 is not just a faster 3er it is a totally different car , drives differently and does not even have the same drivetrain.
That's some pretty big news. Last I'd heard from you SCOTT, it sounded like they had planned on keeping the 3 series name for the F3x-based coupes. I'm actually pleased to hear that this is being reconsidered (I won't consider the decision final yet - it seems to change a lot ).

I agree with the others that keeping the M3 name for the 4-series-based M products will be a little strange and confusing, but I suppose that is probably not final yet anyway. One thing I would point out is that, since an F31 3-series-based M product is apparently being planned, that should rightly take the M3 name. But of course, that will cause a great deal of unrest, even though Audi has let their RS4 Avant carry the perforamce torch for generations with great success, and apparently plans to do this again for an upcoming B8 or B9 RS4. Anyway, though, my point is that this would at least allow the M3 name to live on while the M4 name takes over for the coupes and convertible.

Another possibility: why not just keep the coupe in the 3 series lineup and put just the convertible and the new Gran Coupe into the new 4 series lineup? Then the iconic 3 series coupe and M3 coupe can remain, while the other two body styles break new ground with the 4 moniker.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
A7 is more like a GT than a gran coupe.
Yes and no. While I've recently compared the A7 to the 5GT in some posts myself, it seems to me that Audi intends the A7 to sort of straddle the four door coupe and 5 door hatchback segments. It is obviously a 5 door in function, but in form they have done a nice job of aping the CLS. Frankly they've done such a great job (IMHO) that BMW and Mercedes should take notice and be on guard. They look set to sucessfully kill two birds with one stone. That said, I think while the A7 makes the 5GT look like a clunky, chunky, mess, the upcoming 6 GC is probably going to have it all over both the A7 and the Mercedes CLS. In other words, BMW may have its day yet, and have its way yet for that matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Didn't we agree that cost savings have just as much or more to do with the future direction of M engines as opposed to government regulation? No, I remember, we did not agree . Nonetheless it is so. Either way there is simply no evidence showing a true forcing hand from government.
I'm not going to debate it again, swamp. Rationale and reasoning aside, the world is moving toward mroe efficient engines and it does not take a genuis to see that similar techniques are being employed across the industry.

Quote:
Hasn't there also been some general consensus among the more well informed (and better guessers) here that BMW continues to build top notch engines and will probably offer some very strong innovation in the next M3 engine?
Absolutely. My comment was more about the volume engines. Also, BMW could probably build some awesome engines out of driftwood and silly putty if they had to. It wouldn't make us miss our good ol' aluminum ones any less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MI6 View Post
Scott, when is the 4er Gran Coupe expected to premiere? Same time or a little after the F32 in 2013?
In case he doesn't chime in, I believe it will hit an auto show in late 2014 or early 2015.
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 10:01 AM   #142
Definitive
definitivecars.com
Definitive's Avatar
United_States
94
Rep
3,793
Posts

 
Drives: Elsa - 2015 F80 M3 - YMB/SS
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to Definitive Send a message via MSN to Definitive
I cant see BMW changing their best selling car's moniker. That would just be dumb, Everyone knows the 3 series.

Thats like ford changing the "mustang", to "stallion" for 2013???

People would be like WTF?

D
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 10:16 AM   #143
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
183
Rep
13,833
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Definitive View Post
I cant see BMW changing their best selling car's moniker. That would just be dumb, Everyone knows the 3 series.
The best selling car is the 3 series, true. But, specifically, it is the 3 series sedan. Lots of other BMW models sell more than the 3 series coupe and convertible, however, including things like the 5 series sedan the X1 and the X3.

BMW has no intention of doing away with the 3 series sedan (or touring). The proposed changes would simply move the 2-doors 3 series models under a new 4 series umbrella along with the brand new F3x Gran Coupe. The move could easily have a positive effect on sales - both in allowing these models to receive a more clear marketing message, and giving them a slighly more upmarket appeal vs. the ubiquitous 3 series sedan.
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 11:04 AM   #144
quality_sound
8 tracks of madness
United_States
31
Rep
2,731
Posts

 
Drives: Slowly
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: At home

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booster View Post
Bring that wagon to the US!!!!
HELL yeah!!!
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 11:30 AM   #145
Definitive
definitivecars.com
Definitive's Avatar
United_States
94
Rep
3,793
Posts

 
Drives: Elsa - 2015 F80 M3 - YMB/SS
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to Definitive Send a message via MSN to Definitive
Ahh interesting. Makes sense.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 11:53 AM   #146
ploo
lover of all things car
ploo's Avatar
Taiwan
4
Rep
237
Posts

 
Drives: AW '09 E92 M3, SG '09 X5
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: texas

iTrader: (1)

F3x M3 "editions..." which, even if more desirable (a la E46 CSL) than E9x Editions, will probably never make it to the states. I'm still annoyed that i never got the chance to collect an E46 CSL, it would still be in my garage today.
__________________
-phil | 2009 E92 M3 - AW/black/CF - 6MT and a silly grin every time i drive...

Last edited by ploo; 05-27-2011 at 03:19 PM.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 11:57 AM   #147
sameh
Major
sameh's Avatar
United_States
28
Rep
1,471
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 DCT JetBlk
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Can anyone confirm that the new Rs5 is coming out with a 500HP V8 biturbo?? I'm not changing the subject. If yes, then all these speculations are waaay premature and not on the right track..MHO
__________________
2011 E92 BatMobile JtBlk/Blk/Blk CF
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 01:00 PM   #148
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
183
Rep
13,833
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
Can anyone confirm that the new Rs5 is coming out with a 500HP V8 biturbo?? I'm not changing the subject. If yes, then all these speculations are waaay premature and not on the right track..MHO
Nope, sameh my boy, no one can confirm that. The reason is that that car is so far off that a final decision is unlikely to have been made yet.

Audi does have an engine coming with that spec, but currently it is only known to be in the S8, and speculated for the RS6 and RS7. Sure they could drop it in an RS4/RS5 too, but that's not very Audi-like to share the engine across so many different segments. IMHO a V6 with FI makes much more sense for the sub-A6 vehicles. That's complete speculation though.
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 06:59 PM   #149
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
214
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I'm not going to debate it again, swamp. Rationale and reasoning aside, the world is moving toward mroe efficient engines and it does not take a genuis to see that similar techniques are being employed across the industry.
Sure, there is no debate on the observation of trends. Minimally I just think your "government issue" is WAY too strong of a statement, practically I call it a falsity.

Last edited by swamp2; 05-28-2011 at 01:51 AM. Reason: typo
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 09:41 PM   #150
SIIK2NR
Captain
SIIK2NR's Avatar
South Korea
16
Rep
604
Posts

 
Drives: AW E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Dog

iTrader: (0)

Beautiful work. Takes talent to mod like that.
__________________
Current: 2006 Lotus Elise SC
Previous:
2008 AW E92 M3 6MT - Sold
2004 AP2 S2000 - Sold
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2011, 07:09 AM   #151
persian54
Lieutenant General
persian54's Avatar
United_States
283
Rep
15,808
Posts

 
Drives: SL550. Prev: E93 M3/335i/Z435i
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Valley, SoCal

iTrader: (291)

my lease ends in 2013... guess I'll be getting a GTR or a Porsche afterwards
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2011, 09:56 AM   #152
redline9001
Captain
redline9001's Avatar
Canada
7
Rep
656
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3, MDX, Titan
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Calgary, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
Can anyone confirm that the new Rs5 is coming out with a 500HP V8 biturbo?? I'm not changing the subject. If yes, then all these speculations are waaay premature and not on the right track..MHO
i thought the RS5 was coming with a 444hp 4.2L N/A?
__________________
2011 E92 M3 | JEREZ BLACK | EXTENDED BAMBOO NOVILLO | EXECUTIVE PKG | M-DRIVE | EDC | M-DCT
MODS | KW S/O | HRE P40SC | Akra Evo |ESS Akra Tune | BMC drop in | StopTech Trophies | TMS Pulley | LUX V3
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2011, 09:58 AM   #153
redline9001
Captain
redline9001's Avatar
Canada
7
Rep
656
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3, MDX, Titan
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Calgary, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
my lease ends in 2013... guess I'll be getting a GTR or a Porsche afterwards
I dont understand these comments? you dont want a turbo 6 M3 but you will buy a turbo 6 from the other 2?
__________________
2011 E92 M3 | JEREZ BLACK | EXTENDED BAMBOO NOVILLO | EXECUTIVE PKG | M-DRIVE | EDC | M-DCT
MODS | KW S/O | HRE P40SC | Akra Evo |ESS Akra Tune | BMC drop in | StopTech Trophies | TMS Pulley | LUX V3
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2011, 12:08 PM   #154
ssabripo
HALA MADRID!
ssabripo's Avatar
United_States
51
Rep
2,098
Posts

 
Drives: camels & donkeys
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Plantation, Fl

iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to ssabripo
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
"will replace the sedan "
i guess that means you better buy your E90s while you can
June 15th is the last day to put an e90 M3 order in...
__________________

__________________________________________________ ____________
e90 M3, Interlagos Blue / M individual two-tone, ZCP, ZP2, ZCV, DCT, ED.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 sedan, f80, f80 forum, f80 forums, f80 m3, f80 m3 forum, f80 m3 forums, f80 m3 sedan, m3 f80

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:48 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST