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      05-25-2011, 12:21 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akh23456 View Post
I mean a dct bolt on vs 6 mt bolt on trapping similar speeds, and time.
I yet to see that !
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      05-25-2011, 12:22 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by akh23456 View Post
thats cool man thanks can't wait to see the numbers.



yea i can't wait, hope we can do it soon.
PM on the way !!!
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      05-25-2011, 12:25 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Green-Eggs View Post
Just some public info about Active

Active has been established for 30 years in the US. They have a very knowledgeable & friendly staff. Correct me if I'm wrong but Active has over 20 full-time team members. Their level of experience with BMW is vast as they offer a full array of products & services for most BMW models.

ESS

Roman is in the US. Read that AJ goes back & forth between the US & Europe. You send the ECU to one address & now have a different business address. Not sure how many people work there. Looks like they only offer supercharger kits & software.


Let's say both products are great but I want piece of mind if something ever goes wrong.

Also, I prefer real world numbers vs dyno numbers. Each car is only capable of so much without other modifications to support the related parts.
Sam

As an active dealer I can understand your support but unless you have done business with us or have a working knowledge of our operation you should not be making direct comparisons. We have two locations for a reason. One location is in Europe and one is in the US. Because we develop, test and support products outside the US it is critical that we have facilities in both regions. Also we like to run our test cars at locations like the Nürburgring so it is critical that we have our facility there. You simply cannot replicate the test conditions in the US like you can is Europe. We have one US address for customers to send ECU's and one Europen address for customers to send ECU's. I am in the US 100% of the time and AJ splits time in both regions depending on what projects we are working on.

Our focus is on that side of the business and not retail accessories. Because of this it allows us to spend our time and efforts developing products that other can't like the E60 M5 / M6 supercharger and the N62 supercharger.

We make more superchargers and have more tuning options for BMW than any other vendor. If you want to test this for yourself feel free to visit our website and compare. Our staff is 90% engineers and 10% sales and support. If our products were less reliable and failed more often than they do or if we decided that selling wheels and tires was a necessity I guess we would need to hire more guys but in the past 16 years our system has worked well.
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      05-25-2011, 12:28 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
If you go back and read thru this thread you will see that we had nothing to do with it until Jean, Taza and Omar decided to turn a dyno discussion thread into a thread about how the Active air / air cooling system is superior to our air / water out of nowhere. Not sure why they decided to go this direction but my guess is it was to take the focus off of the original topic. At this point the thread did take a turn for the worse.

akh im glad you like your kit but you do need to realize that you ran a 1/4 mile 5 mph slower than DLSJ5 who runs our VT2 @ 7-7.5 psi. I would expect that if you are going to compare your performance to another supercharged M3 it should at least be the same transmission type. Im not sure why but you keep ignoring DLSJ5's 130 mph trap and Mikewads trap of 126 mph with his VT2 @ 6 psi "575 hp". If it is because you are having trouble finding them I have added the links for you.
Hey Roman will you be posting the same dyno charts for 2 different cars again? Just curious as your credibility is out the window already.



Also here's what your man Ashjob posted in regards to your "higher" hp kits. Its obvious you guys play with kits/cars to produce inflated numbers at this point. Dyno, 1/4 mile I dont care... Is it not true you send flash loaders with more aggressive files to customers? We both know it is. Is it not true a handful of your customers have different pulleys they can try? Also known to be true..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn
The very high horsepower ESS cars you see dynos from run a more aggressive tune similar to the beta test tune. We only supply this tune to our dealers for testing, race teams or customers that fully understand the risks involved with reducing what we find are proper safety margins.
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      05-25-2011, 12:34 PM   #203
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Trust me,im not the one smoking something here,wake up and realize that you are blowing smoke,you have a beautiful powerful E46 .............this is an E9x M3 forum.
O wait i forgot,seems like you are on the payroll not me !
No doubt my car is slower than yours but at the end of the day it wont last 1/4 the life time,go figure 3 built motors and stop denying it ! your motor isn't a bullet proof so stop acting like it is plz cause i yet to see an NA that went FI route and pushing these numbers without being stripped down to the crank and built every 10K. your HP and TQ looks great for a standalone ECU ,lets see if you can replicate that with a stock ECU no you want and i know it and you know it very well so stop playin games plz. ONCE AGAIN ,GO GET AN E9X M3 AND COME BACK AND POST SOMETHING USEFUL!!!

Im sure you are a cool guy and hope we will meet someday so you can realize that life is more than cars and HP ! Have a wonderful day !!!
Again you are smoking something. Its my car I think I know how many times my motor has been built LMAO. Original build and 2nd build for sleeves. The motor is healthy as can be now. Only problem ive ever had is heads lifting (happens when you push big boost, something you don't know much about), after swapping the studs to L19's its been 100%.. Thats it... When you pump 30+ psi into your motor then come talk to me about power ... Also my stock motor with the AA S/C ran longer then your car has and I ran nitrous all the time along with lots of track time. Not to mention tons of data and races unlike you.

Stop it with the payroll talk man, you, m33 and PG must have a circle of cash from ESS lol...

Also FYI (since ALL the information you ever post is invalid) im not running a "standalone" my stock ecu controls plenty of things still (like the Vanos)... Lets see if ESS can make up a dyno chart that makes 800+whp. This stock computer thing is getting old, been there done that...

Oh and believe me I know life is more important, this is fun to me more then anything.

Last edited by tazam3; 05-25-2011 at 12:48 PM.
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      05-25-2011, 12:46 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by tazam3 View Post
Again you are smoking something. Its my car I think I know how many times my motor has been built LMAO. Original build and 2nd build for sleeves. The motor is healthy as can be now. Only problem ive ever had is heads lifting, after swapping the studs to L19's its been 100%.. Thats it... When you pump 30+ psi into your motor then come talk to me about power ... My stock motor with the AA S/C ran longer then your car has and I ran nitrous all the time.

Stop it with the payroll talk man, you, m33 and PG must have a circle of cash from ESS lol...

Also FYI (since ALL the information you ever post is invalid) im not running a "standalone" my stock ecu controls plenty of things still (like the Vanos)... Lets see if ESS can make up a dyno chart that makes 800+whp. This stock computer thing is getting old, been there done that...

Oh and believe me I know life is more important, this is fun to me more then anything.
There you are,back from Lunch break full and ready to play !!! ata boy.
you are the one that said that i was on payroll !lmao
and if i was with the amount of business that ESS does,its more like a tree droppin $100 bills,care to get on the payroll !

It amaze me that you keep repeating the same thing about a Dyno chart !!
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      05-25-2011, 12:47 PM   #205
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Yo taz don't forget to mention my ESS 401k

For a dude who only trapped 123mph with 1000 donky kong power you sure talk a lot of smack
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      05-25-2011, 12:50 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by tazam3 View Post
Again you are smoking something. Its my car I think I know how many times my motor has been built LMAO. Original build and 2nd build for sleeves. The motor is healthy as can be now. Only problem ive ever had is heads lifting (happens when you push big boost, something you don't know much about), after swapping the studs to L19's its been 100%.. Thats it... When you pump 30+ psi into your motor then come talk to me about power ... Also my stock motor with the AA S/C ran longer then your car has and I ran nitrous all the time along with lots of track time. Not to mention tons of data and races unlike you.

Stop it with the payroll talk man, you, m33 and PG must have a circle of cash from ESS lol...

Also FYI (since ALL the information you ever post is invalid) im not running a "standalone" my stock ecu controls plenty of things still (like the Vanos)... Lets see if ESS can make up a dyno chart that makes 800+whp. This stock computer thing is getting old, been there done that...

Oh and believe me I know life is more important, this is fun to me more then anything.
I hope you understand that talking about PG and hes not here posting is a stab in the back.i hope u copy that last post and email it to him just to keep him informed that ur takin smack behind his back !!!
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      05-25-2011, 12:53 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
Yo taz don't forget to mention my ESS 401k

For a dude who only trapped 123mph with 1000 donky kong power you sure talk a lot of smack
C'mon now,the car ran great but it was the subframe that was dangling down the straight away this time that killed the run
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      05-25-2011, 12:54 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akh23456 View Post
thanks Roman for you response but how do you explain all these bolt on M's with different transmissions putting up similar times or even the same? Does a sc change things that much that dct gains 5-10 mph in trap speed.
I think you bring up some good points AK.

But to be fair, you really can't compare 1/4 mile traps from different tracks the same way you can dynojet results, there is no standard acceptable CF for conditions at 1/4 mile tracks. ET's are based mainly on the launch, certainly a 6MT with a good launch can run with a DCT that did a lackluster 60', but I have yet to see a 6MT NA car run 12 flat or high 11's like DCT cars.

I've made at least 50 passes in my M3, NA and SC'd. Two different tracks and the trap speeds varied as much as 4MPH, similar setup, both NA and SC'd. Look at the stock C6 Z06 times, you have some trapping 118 and others trapping 129, pretty big gap, all based mainly on conditions, of course there are anomalies now and then, 6MT shift speed, traction etc. does play a role too.

The one 6MT ESS car that trapped 113 NA then 118 SC'd were in vastly different conditions, the N/A trap was -1000, the SC'd was in positive DA and he explained that he did not get a clean run while SC'D.

DCT vs. 6MT is really not a fair comparison, they just aren't, I've done plenty of comparo's, NA and SC'd to confirm this.

N/A comparo's even when the 6MT had more power, I still easily pulled and my car was aobut even with another DCT so it wasn't anything special. A SC'D 6MT would probably need an additional 80whp to pull on a DCT in a side by side comparo up to 130, of course this could be proved wrong, but so far I've not seen it. Also traction going down the track is huge, but not so much off the line.

At a private event at Famoso last year, all the N/A 6MT M3's were trapping in the 108-112 range, I trapped 114-116, even with less power.

SC'd 60-130 there is a 1 second difference, that is HUGE.

To date, this of course can change, 1/4 mile traps, all the DCT cars are in the 120+ range, I've yet to see a 120+ pass for any 6MT E9X supercharged M3.

DCT SC'd cars, this also shows a gap between tracks as well, even with more power, etc.

DLSJ5 Gintani DCT 8.5psi 131MPH Sacramento (Fast Track)
DLSJ5 Gintani DCT 9.5psi 127MPH Famoso (Moderate Track)
DLSJ5 ESS DCT 7.5psi 129MPH Famoso
Another Gintani DCT 8psi 124MPH Famoso
AK Active Autowerke DCT 7psi 124MPH Atco (Fast Track)
SammyRusso DCT 5.5psi Gintani Famoso 123MPH
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ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi

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      05-25-2011, 12:57 PM   #209
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I think the question noone has answered yet, is if the DCT is worth 6+mph more in the 1/4 mph trap speeds, how did AKH with DCT trap 112mph NA, and the other guy with manual M3 trap 113mph with equal NA powered motors? and then the manual ESS s/c car trapped 117 mph (actually 2 ESS s/c'd M3's did that) and AKH trapped 124 mph?

and noone seems to bring up that DLJ was only trapping equally 123 and 125 mph on his setup before he decided to change things around. to get better mph, you have to add hp or drop weight.. and adding hp takes time, octane and boost. dropping weight only takes 30 minutes or so..
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      05-25-2011, 12:59 PM   #210
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There you are,back from Lunch break full and ready to play !!! ata boy.
you are the one that said that i was on payroll !lmao
and if i was with the amount of business that ESS does,its more like a tree droppin $100 bills,care to get on the payroll !

Yes you are right, i actually have to run my own business im not at ESS lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
It amaze me that you keep repeating the same thing about a Dyno chart !!
That is how hilarious it is! Im sure people are reading it and realizing how shady they are. Notice ESS tries to act like its not a big deal since excuses cant be made up. even though its a huge fact that they tried to lie posting false dyno charts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
Yo taz don't forget to mention my ESS 401k

For a dude who only trapped 123mph with 1000 donky kong power you sure talk a lot of smack
LOL yet another NONFACTUAL comment from you. I trapped 123mph on a measly old supercharger bolt on kit. MANUAL TRANSMISSION lol no DCT or SMG here. Boy is that faster then the 117mph ESS 500+whp E92's?? Lol blame it on the DCT.. Lets not forget it was also at LACR (ex worst track in USA)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
I hope you understand that talking about PG and hes not here posting is a stab in the back.i hope u copy that last post and email it to him just to keep him informed that ur takin smack behind his back !!!
Oh how have I sinned stabbing an old shit talker in the back. PG and I have been emailing (well he started emailing me when i offended his beloved ESS), don't ya worry im sure he is well informed of this thread! He is most likely in AZ sitting at his day job desk at ESS.

PG
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      05-25-2011, 01:02 PM   #211
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C'mon now,the car ran great but it was the subframe that was dangling down the straight away this time that killed the run
Thats a good one, its pretty pathetic that my 6 year old 1/4 mile time with my I6 and little rotrex blower ran faster then an ESS VT600 lol... My run was not on the turbo. AGAIN NONFACTUAL BS from the ESS camp in an attempt to justify themselves. Since manipulating and making up dyno charts isnt working, its time to resort to baseless and bs comments!

FYI (you definitely need it) the E46 chassis had a recall for the subframe, i tore mine up when I was making 840whp and trying to warm up the tires.
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      05-25-2011, 01:09 PM   #212
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Thats a good one, its pretty pathetic that my 6 year old 1/4 mile time with my I6 and little rotrex blower ran faster then an ESS VT600 lol... My run was not on the turbo. AGAIN NONFACTUAL BS from the ESS camp in an attempt to justify themselves. Since manipulating and making up dyno charts isnt working, its time to resort to baseless and bs comments!

FYI (you definitely need it) the E46 chassis had a recall for the subframe, i tore mine up when I was making 840whp and trying to warm up the tires.
I hope you arent comparing your E cuarenta y seis with an E9x M3 AGAIN !
Plus i never ran my car on the strip to be compared II.
I know that there was a recall for the subframe cause the way most guys drive em. BTW try a blowtorch next time to heat up your tires,it works 60% of the time all the time !!!
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      05-25-2011, 01:15 PM   #213
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how much HP is 1 psi worth- roughly- on the s65?
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      05-25-2011, 01:17 PM   #214
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I think the question noone has answered yet, is if the DCT is worth 6+mph more in the 1/4 mph trap speeds, how did AKH with DCT trap 112mph NA, and the other guy with manual M3 trap 113mph with equal NA powered motors? and then the manual ESS s/c car trapped 117 mph (actually 2 ESS s/c'd M3's did that) and AKH trapped 124 mph?

and noone seems to bring up that DLJ was only trapping equally 123 and 125 mph on his setup before he decided to change things around. to get better mph, you have to add hp or drop weight.. and adding hp takes time, octane and boost. dropping weight only takes 30 minutes or so..
Its kinda odd that u join the forum and ur first post will be this thread with such a question !!!!
I think i know who you are ??

Tell me im right !!!
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      05-25-2011, 01:20 PM   #215
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E46 chassis had a recall for the subframe, i tore mine up when I was making 840whp and trying to warm up the tires.

Shockerrrrr. And you were the genius that decided NOT to reinforce the subframe with that much power? lol
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      05-25-2011, 01:21 PM   #216
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im not following what your saying?

i plan on supercharging my M in about 2 months after im used to it. this is the number 1 thread in the performance section and between the 2 top s/c companies. id like to hear the thoughts on how such a variance and mainly what each psi is worth.

my next question was going to be about what psi each company feels is still safe for street cars? but i have a feeling thats been discussed here before and should probably search on my own
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      05-25-2011, 01:23 PM   #217
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Sticky!!!!!!!
who you gonna blame this time when you get banned ??
dude, i dont know what your getting at but i will gladly back out of here and search for previous posts about my questions. good day Sir
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      05-25-2011, 01:25 PM   #218
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Shockerrrrr. And you were the genius that decided NOT to reinforce the subframe with that much power? lol
Hes trying to prove BMW wrong and thinks the subframe can handle the power as hes trying to make ESS look bad as well,
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      05-25-2011, 01:26 PM   #219
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dude, i dont know what your getting at but i will gladly back out of here and search for previous posts about my questions. good day Sir
NO,i appologize Sir and welcome to M3pot !!!!
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      05-25-2011, 01:27 PM   #220
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I don't want to get involved with this discussion.. just wanted to point out a few things.
  • You can not compare a DCT car vs a 6 MT car. (Both parties)

    Have you ever tried racing two of the same cars with the same mods? The DCT car will pull 1/2 to a car with every shift it is. (60-130 time, 1/4 time - that makes a HUGE difference on TIME and SPEED)

    I don't care how good of a driver that 6MT is. He is not shifting at 0.3, it's humanly impossible.
  • You can not compare a car if it isn't apples to apples. "Off the shelf" tune vs a tune that has some adjusted settings will do a difference. A pulley change, anything. You automatically altered with the companies "Standard Kit".

Honestly, this is a stupid thread/argument. I have seen this one too many times. I have been through it myself and I have given up. I take the high road.

This week it's ESS vs Active. Next week it's going to be ESS vs VF. Then back to ESS vs Gintani. Everyone who want's a SC kit, get what ever the f*ck you want. It's your money, your car, don't let anyone change your opinion. Do your homework and see what you want. Don't always go by what you read/see. Call up the owners, go for rides, ask to drive their cars, look at race videos, see whats up. Do your homework! Look at the boost levels, look at the gas used, the transmission, the whole 9 yards.

To be honest, some people defend a company WAY too much. They stay up ALL night long trying to find a way to make another company look bad, collect data and do all this b/s that isn't needed. If you want to do that, more power to you.
I don't get anything out of it, at the end of the day, I'm still paying for every minute that is worked on my car, I don't get a kick back, I don't get shit. I rather put my time into something that I'll actually get something back, like a job/business.

So if you make a choice to go with Active, ESS, Gintani, Gpower, VF, Uncle Bob's S/C kit, it doesn't make a difference in my life and it shouldn't matter in yours. Let the public pick what they want, they don't need this b/s thread. It's pointless.

I have plenty to say about this subject but I honestly am over the tuner bullshit. Who ever sells the more kits, who ever does what, it doesn't make a difference in my life. I'm happy with my choice. I'm sure the people who have their kits are happy with theirs. Everyone go out and drive your cars. You want to go do 1/4 miles go for it, you want do 60-130 runs go for it, you want to sit at a dyno all day long, go for it. Do what ever the hell makes you happy. Sure, come post it on the forum and see what other people can do against it. Don't sit here and knock the other guy for not getting what you got. Every single car is different, not one car is going to be the same. Try improving your own time, your own 60-130, your own dynos. Don't go after another company, what the hell is the point in that? You want to try and prove that your product is superior to the other, it's not going to happen. There are too many variables in the equation, simple as that. The only thing you guys can compare is a tune and I'll tell you right now that is a whole another ball game, a whole another pissing match, a whole another can of drama that I don't even want to go down that alley.

I will stand by what I said earlier, dynos to me are bullshit. 60-130 is just a tool to see where you stand. (DCT have advantages on that)

Go find a open road, do some friendly runs. At the end of the day, we're all the same. We all love cars and we are all here for the fun, who else sits on a forum for hours at a time?

I'm sure I'll be getting bashed about this post or 100 questions are going to come my way but at the end of the day, let me tell you again, I don't care.
This is a hobby for me, a hobby that I doubt I'll be doing much longer.

Josh
__________________
15 YMB F80 M3 | iND Painted Front Reflectors, Painted Side Marker Set, Rear Painted Emblem & Front Grill Surround | Gintani Downpipes | H&R Super Sport Springs | Macht Schnell Stud Conversion Kit + Spacers | JB4
*Track Day/Car Meet: August 24 @ Buttonwillow Raceway
tightie is offline   United_States
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