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      05-24-2011, 09:00 AM   #23
Overlord
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BMW CCA runs an excellent event. You will be in a Beginner run group there it will be well controlled. You'll get solid instruction. Approach this as a learning opportunity and not a race. Go in with an open mind and try not to prove anything.

If you have to give ever other drive a point-by, fine. Take your time. Think smooth inputs and learn the line. Start doing some research now so that you can get a little comfortable before the event. It's the guys that think a good car makes them a good driver that cause negligent crashes (accidents imply it was out of their control). You will figure out who they are quickly. Stay away from them.

Laguna is an amazing track. Pretty excellent place to get your cherry popped. Remember, everyone has their first time.
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      05-24-2011, 10:16 AM   #24
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I wouldn't be put off by the videos. There is a lot of idiocy on display there at clearly poorly controlled events. When there are two people in the car, either the instructor isn't doing there job for the skill level, or the driver is carrying a buddy, which just doesn't happen at "proper" events until the driver is a instructor level.

I was at VIR this weekend (film to follow) with PCA and a "Green" group new driver in an M5 was within two or three spoken sentences from being tossed. He was overly aggressive in a very powerful car and didn't realize how much the car was keeping him on track. Two other instructors came over to chat with the guys instructor (I have not seen that before) to discuss the situation. He was using phrases like "I haven't come here to take it easy" etc. and being all macho. (this all took place in our garage). He thought it was funny until the three other drivers in the garage started laying into him, as well as the instructor. He took it down a notch the next day, but he will be in Green for a long time with an instructor (if allowed to come back) until he drives with more control and courtesy (i.e. not tailgating through corner complexes with no passinf zone in sight)

In the other cars, these have been race prepped for such accidents to allow the driver to take these risks. In a daily driver at club HPDE, you will have been sent home long before you put yourself and instructor at such risk.

Key learning point: if you are going to flip your ride, be careful not to get caught on tape complaining about amateurs...
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      05-24-2011, 02:41 PM   #25
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No, In general its really safe out there, but i feel it maybe more comfortable in intermediate/adv groups. One of the big differences is less traffic because people point by faster, are more observant, drive smoother, and also usually have similar speeds.

Its like driving on the freeway vs local. In beginner groups, you always have huge differences in speed between cars.

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[/b]
Have you run with the CCA? They won't tolerate any of that, especially in the D group. You inevitably get behind some really slow person and it slows things down until you can get a point by.
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      05-24-2011, 03:22 PM   #26
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I would agree with most of what everyone says. it's good to have a healthy amount of respect (not fear) and take it slow. build speed commensurate with your confidence, and only do so gently. this car is very forgiving, so as long as you leave on the DSC or MDM stability control, you'll be fine - just don't stab the throttle or brake mid-turn.

it's easy to get intimidated by watching horrific videos - most of that will wear down after a few laps.
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      05-24-2011, 03:36 PM   #27
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Quote:
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I would agree with most of what everyone says. it's good to have a healthy amount of respect (not fear) and take it slow. build speed commensurate with your confidence, and only do so gently. this car is very forgiving, so as long as you leave on the DSC or MDM stability control, you'll be fine - just don't stab the throttle or brake mid-turn.

it's easy to get intimidated by watching horrific videos - most of that will wear down after a few laps.
+1. Just do what you feel comfortable doing. Have to take these vids in context, some of them look pretty old. It's not about racing, it's about having fun and connecting to the car. As mentioned earlier its about mindset, go in with a beginners mind and you'll be fine
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      05-26-2011, 02:18 AM   #28
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Quote:
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friends of this OP:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=534563

you should be scared of idiots like that. Those are the type of people who think they are having fun, and cause accidents, and death.



this video shows exactly why fooling around like hanging the tail out for some "fun" is prohibited. The conception that "i know how to handle my car", nobody knows and even pros makes mistakes.
Dude, I understand where you're coming from, but that's got nothing to do with the car in front in that video.

That car losing control is not result of him trying to drift/power-slide or anything. The tailend came out and he tried to correct it, but obviously couldn't & lost control.

If you're gonna talk sh*t about anybody in the video, it's the driver of the car behind. The car in front is squirming around, the driver behind sees it while reasonably far back, and yet, he increases the throttle. wtf? Looks like he was trying to race by on the inside. Wtf is he trying to win, a trophy??

While I don't disagree with you re: drifting on track with other cars around, you're blinded by your strong opinion about it.

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That guy was driving super aggressive since he got on the throttle when the Boxster lost the back end; looks like he was trying to blow by him. His car also has a full cage, so it's a totally different level of driving
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      05-26-2011, 02:20 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiM3y View Post
I wouldn't be put off by the videos. There is a lot of idiocy on display there at clearly poorly controlled events.
Well said.


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Originally Posted by LiM3y View Post
Key learning point: if you are going to flip your ride, be careful not to get caught on tape complaining about amateurs...
lulz


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosef View Post
I would agree with most of what everyone says. it's good to have a healthy amount of respect (not fear) and take it slow. build speed commensurate with your confidence, and only do so gently. this car is very forgiving, so as long as you leave on the DSC or MDM stability control, you'll be fine - just don't stab the throttle or brake mid-turn.

it's easy to get intimidated by watching horrific videos - most of that will wear down after a few laps.
Or, don't suddenly lift off the throttle in mid-turn, which people tend to do when the tailend comes out.
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      05-26-2011, 06:02 AM   #30
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Key learning point #2: When your instructor is imploring you to drive with more control, don't say "That was a cool drift, man!"

Key learning point #3: When the car in front of you is fish-tailing and about to spin, whether by bad luck or bad judgment, don't start accelerating towards it.
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      05-26-2011, 07:16 AM   #31
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does insurance cover these wrecks?
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      05-26-2011, 11:20 AM   #32
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you will be fine driving with dcs on you wont have lurid slides like in the video and first day is lower speed just work on getting your lines, braking points, entry, apex and exit down then work up speed next time out.
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      05-28-2011, 12:58 AM   #33
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The best part of being in the beginners group is that you can get some good video footage keeping up or getting point by's from faster cars. This was my 2nd HPDE event ever with PCA chasing a GT3.
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      05-28-2011, 03:43 AM   #34
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Nice vid.
Are you tall? It looks like you could be sitting closer to the wheel- unless you don't have the headroom.

Don't you have to own a Porsche to be a member of PCA in Cali?
I'm going in a week. Can't wait.

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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      05-28-2011, 06:32 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Nice vid.
Are you tall? It looks like you could be sitting closer to the wheel- unless you don't have the headroom.

Don't you have to own a Porsche to be a member of PCA in Cali?
I'm going in a week. Can't wait.

.
No, i'm not tall but the camera wide angle view does make it look awkward.
Yes, you need to own a Porsche to be a member of PCA, but you don't need to be a member to attend their events.
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      05-29-2011, 02:59 AM   #36
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For the OP, like other's have said, just keep your DSC on. As a newb, it will not be limiting your driving at all. It'll only save your bacon.

And in that Boxster vid, you can see he applied brake while turing and lost the tail as a result... and obviously had DSC off.

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No, i'm not tall but the camera wide angle view does make it look awkward.
Yes, you need to own a Porsche to be a member of PCA, but you don't need to be a member to attend their events.


Thanks. Didn't know that. How do you go about signing up? I've heard very good things about their event's too.

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      05-29-2011, 09:26 AM   #37
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Thanks. Didn't know that. How do you go about signing up? I've heard very good things about their event's too.

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      06-02-2011, 01:22 PM   #38
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does insurance cover these wrecks?
These days, most insurance will not. Unless you know for a fact that your's will, it's best to assume they won't, which is why track day insurance is becoming more popular. BMWCCA is heavily pushing a program from a company called Lockton Affinity, although there are other programs, with cost typically between $100 and $400 per event depending on declared car value. I don't know that it's a reasonable assumption that any of the run groups are safer/less likely to have incidents, although it's probably true there are a few more in the advanced groups where they are pushing it harder.

Incidents between cars are rare -- I don't believe I've ever seen one at any of my track events, although I've come a little close a few times. As long as everyone in the run group is maintaining decent following distances, and you are observing other drivers around you (for their own issues), you should be fine.

For those new to the track, the biggest cause of the more serious off-track incidents is rain -- not only does it make spins more common, but if you get off track, wet grass is almost as slippery as ice, and you can slide for quite a ways (typically until you hit something to stop you). Also, some tracks are much worse than others as far as how well water drains off. In the dry, it's pretty rare for anything serious to happen, unless the driver is either driving really poorly, or something mechanical (including running brake pads completely down) happens. So, the lessons are, drive carefully in the rain (on a non-slick tire), and make sure you have enough brake pad for the weekend.
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