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      05-10-2011, 11:40 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
I love how you don't even attempt to address the massive negative impacts of your own stated policies. Just more attacks
What this nation is in now is the massively negative impact of the policies that have been pushed by the two major political parties for far too long, bringing us closer and closer to their ultimate goal for total control. A large and lazy segment of the population cannot think past the TV screen and the party line.
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      05-11-2011, 12:23 AM   #46
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So is abortion and assisted suicide. What is it? Over 30 Billion babies butchered since 1973? Let's stop that.
Let's not turn this into a religious discourse, please. Abortion and assisted suicide are completely separate topics.
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      05-11-2011, 12:45 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by schoy View Post
^ "Morally unsound" by what standard? I don't think doctors are required (legally or even morally/ethically) to treat everyone that comes through their doors, life-threatening or not. Do we expect our doctors to always be charitable, whatever the cost? Or can we not allow our doctors to run their practice like a business?

Perhaps I might be more persuaded with the charity argument if medical school didn't cost $30K-$50K per year ...

Edit: rs6655: Thanks for the link below. I do note that the law only applies to participating hospitals (i.e. hospitals obtaining federal funds, say via Medicare). The practical result, as per the article, is that it applies to all hospitals, but only because of Medicare. Perhaps then it is the Medicare program that needs fixing? There's got to be a better way ... but that is for a different thread I suppose ...
Almost all hospitals today receive government funding, and are thus subject to that law. The only exceptions are elective treatment hospitals and smaller, fully private clinics.

I don't think I was very clear in my last post, so let me try to elaborate a bit

I am not at ALL opposed to doctors operating their units like businesses. I (from an academic/pragmatic viewpoint) SUPPORT your viewpoint in this regard. I absolutely think that doctors have a right to charge for their services, and that healthcare is not a right that can be freely demanded. Should everyone (including illegal immigrants) pay for their healthcare? ABSOLUTELY!!

However, my dilemma deals with society as a whole. Is it ethical for a hospital to turn away the sick and dying? I am of the viewpoint that in a civilized society, it is unacceptable to simply deny people healthcare, particularly in the case of emergent or grave illnesses. Please do not mix that up with PAYMENT for healthcare.

I realize that my viewpoint of medicine is idealized. You are correct, there is no moral or ethical code that requires physicians to be charitable. And as far as I know, there is no requirement to treat every patient that presents to you, as long as you provide a suitable alternative. However, please don't forget that physicians are given a higher level of trust and authority than most in our society. As a result, they are held to a higher ethical and moral code than most other professions. And a major result of that moral and ethical code is that physicians would find the idea of denying treatment for political or monetary purposes reprehensible.

What's the result of all of this? We need a system where physicians and hospitals are not forced into these sorts of decisions. We need to provide a way for people to pay for their healthcare, with their own money. Once people are empowered with taking care of their own health, they will be less likely to engage in activities that damage their health. Health savings accounts are the key, people. Not a nationalized healthcare system.
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      05-11-2011, 12:51 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
Thanks for reminding me.

We really need to de-criminalize assisted suicide. Get the damn gov't OUT of my death bed, telling me when and how to die! When I die is between me, my health care provider, and my religious beliefs. We don't need a big massive nanny Gov't telling everyone what to do at the end of our lives.
Well said. As long as there is an adequate oversight system (which will benefit physicians as well as their patients), I think this is agreeable.

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Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
What is the hypocratic oath? Why should a doctor help you commit suicide?
He's making the point that patients should have the right to request for a physician's assistance with suicide. Whether or not the physician agrees is up to the physician and the hospital's policies. Why should the doctor do it? Because a doctor is most qualified at administering the appropriate anesthetics and lethal toxins in a painless and humane manner. Would you prefer that people try to kill themselves at home by overdosing on acetaminophen?
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      05-11-2011, 12:56 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by ferrari355fi View Post
Get rid of the federal income tax, flat tax on state income tax (15% sounds good to me), get rid of long term capital gains tax (would promote savings and retirement contributions), keep short term capital gains at 15%, get rid of inheritance tax/estate tax, and get rid of corporate taxes (would promote all industries across the board).

Federal government should do a complete internal audit to trim as much fat off as possible. Then let the states all decide how much to contribute, from the income taxes that were collected, to create the federal budget.

And hell, while we are at it. Privatize social security and pensions.
How do you propose the government fund itself with JUST 15% short-term capital gains tax?

There are plenty of government projects that require funding, irrespective of political lines or tax revenue. Infrastructure and basic national defense are two that come to mind. There is also the slight dilemma of the enormous federal debt that looms over us. If we cut our income taxes that drastically, the federal government would be unable to make payments on their bonds and would default. And who knows what would happen in that scenario...
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      05-11-2011, 01:55 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
How do you propose the government fund itself with JUST 15% short-term capital gains tax?

There are plenty of government projects that require funding, irrespective of political lines or tax revenue. Infrastructure and basic national defense are two that come to mind. There is also the slight dilemma of the enormous federal debt that looms over us. If we cut our income taxes that drastically, the federal government would be unable to make payments on their bonds and would default. And who knows what would happen in that scenario...
Make it work. Slash and burn auditing. Lean it out as if it were an LBO of the 80's. Sell off departments, privatize them. No more bottomless pit spending.
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      05-11-2011, 07:38 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
Let's not turn this into a religious discourse, please. Abortion and assisted suicide are completely separate topics.
It's true that abortion, assisted suicide, and whether or not doctors and hospitals are obligated to treat illegal aliens are all off topic of the flat tax. Somebody (perhaps you) had argued in favor of those needing help. I favor the charity of providing help. But it is not to be my decision that they must provide help. And as for abortion, it is the epitomy of selfishness to kill your baby for convenience.
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