BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-22-2007, 04:29 PM   #23
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
214
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Right on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Rock the RS4.....

given the publish spec of the engine, it is going to cream the RS4 in straightline and around a race track....

This friggin Atmospheric engine has the same damn torque curve as a turbo motor....how damn impressive is that?

Assuming they get the gearing right (7 speed hint hint)....the new M3 will be even faster than the E39 M5 which is faster than the RS4....

No worries now.....on the motor side. worried about weight and tranny.
+1. All the skeptics need to relax. Sure the torque PEAK value came up less than I thought for sure (by a little only) but the big surprise for me the that torque curve as well. Massive area under the curve! Torque curve begins a lower rpms and is nice and flat across a HUGE rpm range (amazing because on the face of it it does not seem like the engine is much innovation beyond the M5). However if you scale the M5 torque curve the M3, liter for liter is WAY BETTER . So pleased about the redline as well . This engine breathes at high rpm like an F430!
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2007, 04:32 PM   #24
esquire
Colonel
esquire's Avatar
United_States
58
Rep
2,801
Posts

 
Drives: 2011.5 Dakar Yellow M3 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orange County, California

iTrader: (0)

i don't share your same sense of panic or concern. we should all be thoroughly impressed that the car has that high of a redline, is producing such a flat torque line, and they managed to actually reduce the weight despite adding two cylinders. i'm impressed.
__________________

[ESS VT2-625] [Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust] [KW Clubsports] [OSS Angel Eyes] [Revinora r-CRT Lip]
[Vorsteiner Boot] [Challenge Race Diffuser] [See the Build Thread HERE]
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2007, 05:06 PM   #25
M3onTwomps
First Lieutenant
Iraq
3
Rep
319
Posts

 
Drives: '02 E46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Sandbox

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 888 View Post
Based on engine info and spec, Iím starting to get very nervous about the power on the new M3. I was expecting something out of this world and not just another car to fill the gap between the 335 and M5. I currently drive an M5 and to be quite honest it is a lovely car but compromised. Just the other day I was given a massive lesson by a CLS 63 in a strait line and when we got to the corners he was even faster. I ordered the M3 because of what I was expecting now it looks like I might just have to stick to the M5. The M3 must not just be better than the RS4 it MUST be much better with no debate, thatís what we waited for and expect! Is it possible that M have panicked and dropped the ball because of the RS4?? I hope BMW reads these comments, it took the "others" for ever to catch-up to the E46 now it looks like BMW is playing catch-up. Is it to soon to panic?
Answer to your last question: Yes. Get a grip, man.
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2007, 06:38 PM   #26
TheDreamer
Enlisted Member
2
Rep
31
Posts

 
Drives: 06 Scion Tc
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (0)

Again, these comparisons are moot. Of course you can find an MB faster than a BMW, you can also pay about 100 thousand dollars more for a performance gain that is marginal compared to the price.

MB is for executives or people that like faster straight line acceleration

BMW is the ultimate drivers car.

I believe all your worries shall dissipate the first time you cut through that hairpin turn like a knife cuts through butter.

For the price, its going to be unbeatable as a full package.
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2007, 06:52 PM   #27
335d coupe
Mike
335d coupe's Avatar
United Kingdom
0
Rep
72
Posts

 
Drives: Z4M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Look: I really like the new M3. And I lurve the 8400 RPM redline!! BUT. My S54-engined Z4MR (please ignore my forum name - I chopped my 335d coupe in after 2 months for another - my second - Z4MR.....) has 105.6hp/litre. The new M3 has 105hp/litre...... Also, my 3246cc S54 engine has 269lbft (0.083lbft/cc). The new 3999cc M3 has 295lbft (0.074lbft/cc - OR 12% LESS lbft/cc than the S54.....). So where - after over SIX YEARS - is the progress?? All I'm hoping is that - as appears to have been the case with the 335i - BMW are playing the power and torque claims down a bit.

Mike
__________________
06/06 Z4M Roadster. Interlagos/Light Sepang/Ally Trim and plenty of toys.
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2007, 06:54 PM   #28
uhaulball
Brigadier General
59
Rep
4,164
Posts

 
Drives: e90 330xi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (11)

Send a message via AIM to uhaulball
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonlowe View Post
Unfortunately , overspeculating runs rampant on boards like this. I cannot wait to hear that engine wailing at 8000rpm +! Yeah, the torque is a little low, but you can't have high revs , high hp, and high torque in this price range.
co6
__________________
'06 bsm e90 330xi : 18" VMR CSL : KW V3 : GruppeM Rep Intake : UUC/Corsa Catback : Hartge Lip : ACS Roof Spoiler
OEM CF Trunk Spoiler : CF Emblems. Pillars. Mirror. Grille : LUXER12 led plate : V1 Hardwired : OG.longtran e90post sticker! circa 2005
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2007, 07:08 PM   #29
ilmor
ilmor
United_States
0
Rep
46
Posts

 
Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CT

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via Yahoo to ilmor
Of course, a new model RS4 will be coming out...based on a new A4 design which is being introduced this September. So, the new M3 will need to compete with the new RS4...whatever that will be. M3 needs to raise the bar high. Basically, though...it will still be a BMW M3, and to tell you the truth, 420 HP in a 3 series will be plenty for me!!!
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2007, 07:11 PM   #30
BevoRules
Enlisted Member
1
Rep
44
Posts

 
Drives: '08 M3
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Texas, USA

iTrader: (0)

Sorry if I have missed it already but has anyone actually heard when will BMW release the specs? if the first ones are indeed going to get rolled out in euroland by sept/oct, then wouldn't they need to release the specs sometime over the next one or two months?

-Hook'em
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2007, 08:05 PM   #31
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
144
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335d coupe View Post
Look: I really like the new M3. And I lurve the 8400 RPM redline!! BUT. My S54-engined Z4MR (please ignore my forum name - I chopped my 335d coupe in after 2 months for another - my second - Z4MR.....) has 105.6hp/litre. The new M3 has 105hp/litre...... Also, my 3246cc S54 engine has 269lbft (0.083lbft/cc). The new 3999cc M3 has 295lbft (0.074lbft/cc - OR 12% LESS lbft/cc than the S54.....). So where - after over SIX YEARS - is the progress?? All I'm hoping is that - as appears to have been the case with the 335i - BMW are playing the power and torque claims down a bit.

Mike
See the torque curve, it is as flat as a turbo motor.....

This motor is going to haunt Audi, MB, Lexus......

This motor more advanced over the S54 as the S85 is over the S62
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2007, 09:27 PM   #32
sajakh
First Lieutenant
United_States
12
Rep
342
Posts

 
Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South

iTrader: (0)

Does anyone find it odd and/or interesting that direct injection technology (more HP/mpg) is not being adopted for this engine? It is obviously in the 335i engine and in the new crop of porsche engines, not to mention the audi rs4.

Doing some more research, did you know the new AMG 6.3L NA engine that Merc is using for everything with AMG in it is 3 kilo LIGHTER than this new engine. Now I don't if they are measured the same (accesories,etc), but it does pose any interesting question . . . 510 hp/469 lbs-ft torque

http://www.ae-plus.com/Technology&#3...AMG%206.3l.htm

Just for comparison, similar detailed site on the new engine.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/print.cf...2.001/lang/eng
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2007, 09:34 PM   #33
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
144
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sajakh View Post
Does anyone find it odd and/or interesting that direct injection technology (more HP/mpg) is not being adopted for this engine? It is obviously in the 335i engine and in the new crop of porsche engines, not to mention the audi rs4.

Doing some more research, did you know the new AMG 6.3L NA engine that Merc is using for everything with AMG in it is 3 kilo LIGHTER than this new engine. Now I don't if they are measured the same (accesories,etc), but it does pose any interesting question . . . 510 hp/469 lbs-ft torque

http://www.ae-plus.com/Technology&#3...AMG%206.3l.htm

Just for comparison, similar detailed site on the new engine.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/print.cf...2.001/lang/eng

The real benchmark is the Chevrolet LS7.....

There are tax penalities for displacement in many countries, this is why BMW is under 4.0L for the V8 and 5.0L for the V10.

But I don't think this is solely driving their decisions.....it is the desire to beat 100 hp / liter benchmark - this shows BMW's engineering talents.

You can hide mediocre engineering with displacement or forced induction. If you give BMW the displacement of the LS7 and AMG motors, we would be in into 600+hp territory.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2007, 11:11 PM   #34
Ghost Rider
New Member
Ghost Rider's Avatar
0
Rep
11
Posts

 
Drives: E46 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Thumbs up

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=4998

I think the last paragraph of this Road & Track article sums it up best:

Quote:
When the next calendar year arrives, if you sense something speeding by you amid a shriek of high engine revs, don't try to chase it. It's not a bird or a plane. It'll be the new M3, and chances are, you're not going to catch it.
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2007, 02:16 AM   #35
888
I'm takin' the day off.
888's Avatar
South Africa
16
Rep
339
Posts

 
Drives: M
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
Answer to your last question: Yes. Get a grip, man.

If you have nothing of substance to contribute then rather observe. The idea of these forums is to generate debate and sometimes play devils advocate to keep the manufactures honest. I donít appreciate your tone especially considering we are fellow M enthusiasts.
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2007, 02:28 AM   #36
ajj
Private First Class
United_States
2
Rep
163
Posts

 
Drives: dct e92 m3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: san francisco, ca

iTrader: (0)

great engine..no worries!!

c'mon guys..lets try and be a little bit more intelligent about this. it hurts me that eveyone is sooo concerned about the torque peak..again..it seems like a silly "mine is bigger than yours" argument. the torque peak is a lot less important than the actual torque curve.

would you rather have ridiculously high torque for a few seconds/rpms, or good torque throughout your entire rpm range.. swamp is right..one of the flattest torque curves ever seen on a vehicle of this calibre and the BMW M engineers know this. Area under the curve or integral value is high(representing power~ 420 hp), but it looks like they've decided to spread the power out pretty evenly rather than focusing it in one rpm range...a great tactic which will give great accelaration numbers no doubt. sure it won't be as "punchy" or jerky, but believe me it will be fast. i personally prefer the flatter torque curves bc you get the "floating/flying" feeling as you accelerate, rather than the pin you back in your seat feeling...again preference...and there are better cars if you want the latter. peace brothers..can't wait till september!
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2007, 05:30 AM   #37
888
I'm takin' the day off.
888's Avatar
South Africa
16
Rep
339
Posts

 
Drives: M
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

from: http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_sh..._m3/index.html

To save you the time to look up that engine's numbers, we'll make those inevitable comparisons for you:

1. Last year we marveled that Audi squeezed 420 horsepower out of only 4.2 liters. BMW has now squeezed the same amount out of only 4.0.

2. Last year we couldn't believe the Audi V-8 revved to 8250 rpm. BMW's dyno chart doesn't stop until 8400.

3. Last year we thought it was amazing that the RS4's power peak was at a lofty 7800 rpm. That seems like peanuts, now - the M3's engine makes peak power at 8300.

4. Last year we all oohed and aahed that the RS4's V-8 makes 90 percent of its peak torque over a 5350-rpm range. (From 2250 to 7600 rpm). Now, BMW's V-8 adds 400 rpm to that already unbelievable spread - it does the same from 2500 to 8250 rpm.
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2007, 08:12 AM   #38
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
183
Rep
13,838
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 888 View Post
To save you the time to look up that engine's numbers, we'll make those inevitable comparisons for you:
Good comparo. Although the Audi motor was not as impressive in the absolute sense (to me anyway) as Ferrari's 4.3L V8 was when it came out a few years ago. 490hp and 340ft-lb from 4.3L is nothing short of astonishing for a road going car. Of course, an F430 will cost you 3 RS4's or M3's so in the relative sense we had better expect it will have better engine tech. Hell the engine itself probably cost 60k to replace.

Also, does anyone remember the M3 GTR racecar? Not a street legal car to be sure, but 470hp and (if I recall) over 320ft-lb from a 4L motor is an accomplishment as well. To bad they only built 10 of them homolongated for street use and, in the process castrated the motor to a measely 350hp. Plus that car cost even more than an F430. I can imagine all 10 are stored in climate controlled garages never to see the light of day again.
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2007, 12:56 PM   #39
ajj
Private First Class
United_States
2
Rep
163
Posts

 
Drives: dct e92 m3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: san francisco, ca

iTrader: (0)

Smile Great Article...

....at least the guys at automobile know what theyre talking about.
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2007, 02:11 PM   #40
adamr
Major
adamr's Avatar
South Africa
27
Rep
1,032
Posts

 
Drives: 997 GT3 RS
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Johannesburg

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Have to admit audi has really up-ed their game with the RS4 ... i certianly do hope the E9x M3 is better ... it has to be faster than the RS4 and at a competetive price with the RS4 ... around R620k ... difficult one for BMW engineers and marketing to pull off id say ... and if it comes with the CF roof its gonna be over R700k ... and if thats the case, the RS4 at R622k will be a wiser buy ... guess we will just have to wait and see
__________________


2007 Porsche 997 GT3 RS
|PCM with NAV and GSM|Roll Cage|PCCB|Xenons|Sports Chrono Plus|PASM|Leather Pack|Silver Seat-belts|
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2007, 02:27 PM   #41
888
I'm takin' the day off.
888's Avatar
South Africa
16
Rep
339
Posts

 
Drives: M
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamr View Post
Have to admit audi has really up-ed their game with the RS4 ... i certianly do hope the E9x M3 is better ... it has to be faster than the RS4 and at a competetive price with the RS4 ... around R620k ... difficult one for BMW engineers and marketing to pull off id say ... and if it comes with the CF roof its gonna be over R700k ... and if thats the case, the RS4 at R622k will be a wiser buy ... guess we will just have to wait and see
My dealer told me that the c/f roof will be std and the s/r with sheet metal roof a no cost option. The M3 will cost around R630k std.
Appreciate 0
      03-25-2007, 08:04 PM   #42
M3onTwomps
First Lieutenant
Iraq
3
Rep
319
Posts

 
Drives: '02 E46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Sandbox

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 888 View Post
If you have nothing of substance to contribute then rather observe. The idea of these forums is to generate debate and sometimes play devils advocate to keep the manufactures honest. I donít appreciate your tone especially considering we are fellow M enthusiasts.
You asked a question. I answered it.

Yes, it is too early to panic. Cry me a river.

Over-generalization and overreacting are running rampant here. We haven't even seen any performance or pricing numbers.

It's too early to panic. Plain and simple.

I couldn't care less if you don't like my tone. The truth hurts sometimes.
Appreciate 0
      03-25-2007, 08:56 PM   #43
uhaulball
Brigadier General
59
Rep
4,164
Posts

 
Drives: e90 330xi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (11)

Send a message via AIM to uhaulball
M didnt drop the ball, the rest of the opponents just caught up pace with it, some may be even overtaking it.
__________________
'06 bsm e90 330xi : 18" VMR CSL : KW V3 : GruppeM Rep Intake : UUC/Corsa Catback : Hartge Lip : ACS Roof Spoiler
OEM CF Trunk Spoiler : CF Emblems. Pillars. Mirror. Grille : LUXER12 led plate : V1 Hardwired : OG.longtran e90post sticker! circa 2005
Appreciate 0
      03-25-2007, 08:57 PM   #44
Driv3r
Colonel
Driv3r's Avatar
United_States
53
Rep
2,358
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 E46 M3 ZCP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Miami Beach, FL

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2006 325i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 888 View Post
Based on engine info and spec, Iím starting to get very nervous about the power on the new M3. I was expecting something out of this world and not just another car to fill the gap between the 335 and M5. I currently drive an M5 and to be quite honest it is a lovely car but compromised. Just the other day I was given a massive lesson by a CLS 63 in a strait line and when we got to the corners he was even faster. I ordered the M3 because of what I was expecting now it looks like I might just have to stick to the M5. The M3 must not just be better than the RS4 it MUST be much better with no debate, thatís what we waited for and expect! Is it possible that M have panicked and dropped the ball because of the RS4?? I hope BMW reads these comments, it took the "others" for ever to catch-up to the E46 now it looks like BMW is playing catch-up. Is it to soon to panic?
Damn, you must be a really shitty driver to have a CLS AMG beat you on the twisties....
__________________
2006 E46 M3 ZCP 6SPD-Interlagos Blue - 6SPD - SSK - AA Headers -AA Tune - Navigation w/ Splashscreen Mod - 3M Crystalline Series 60 - Carbon Splitters - Swissvax Treated - Bridgestone
2012 Yamaha FZ8 - Matte Black/Grey - Michelin Pilot Pure 2CT - Vortex Rear Sets - Yoshimura R-77D & Fender Delete - Spectro Race Oil - GP Reverse Shifting
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:55 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST