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      04-25-2011, 04:23 PM   #23
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I appreciate the feedback, and please understand I am not advocating more government regulation. My point is simple, if speeding is illegal (and it is); why allow manufacturers to sell cars that go 3 times the legal limit on public roads? This isn't about education, or responsibility, or sobriety, it is about common sense. Let me give another example, while you can own a sub machine gun, you must have the proper license to do so. It is very difficult to obtain this license and strictly monitored by the ATF. Consequently, very few people have machine guns in their homes. Again, speeding is not a judgement call, it is against the law, so why is it legal to sell cars that can easily exceed the speed limit?
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      04-25-2011, 04:43 PM   #24
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I'd have to say cultural -- historically, the US has been far less likely to ban or restrict many things than many other developed nations. Additionally, there's likely some judicial precedent involved. Our court system seems more likely than many other developed nations to overturn restrictive laws, unless there is a compelling (to them) public safety reason. For instance, there's quite a few restrictions around when and how sobriety checkpoints can be implemented.

Even though guns have come up earlier in the thread as something that is strictly licensed, the fact remains it is far easier to have a gun in the US than most or maybe all developed nations, for similar reasons.

Also, I think because we are a "big" country (land mass wise), and our public transit is typically far less developed than Europe for instance, many things related to driving are taken as a "right" in America, and face far fewer restrictions than other developed countries. So, to summarize, I'd say it's mostly how our judicial system approaches restrictive laws (like what you are proposing), informed by US culture and judicial precedent.
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      04-25-2011, 04:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIS View Post
I appreciate the feedback, and please understand I am not advocating more government regulation. My point is simple, if speeding is illegal (and it is); why allow manufacturers to sell cars that go 3 times the legal limit on public roads? This isn't about education, or responsibility, or sobriety, it is about common sense. Let me give another example, while you can own a sub machine gun, you must have the proper license to do so. It is very difficult to obtain this license and strictly monitored by the ATF. Consequently, very few people have machine guns in their homes. Again, speeding is not a judgement call, it is against the law, so why is it legal to sell cars that can easily exceed the speed limit?
As others mentioned, these cars are also sold in countries where the speed limit is much much higher. Plus, these cars serve dual-role purposes - street & track.
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      04-25-2011, 04:52 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by swartzentruber View Post
I'd have to say cultural -- historically, the US has been far less likely to ban or restrict many things than many other developed nations. Additionally, there's likely some judicial precedent involved. Our court system seems more likely than many other developed nations to overturn restrictive laws, unless there is a compelling (to them) public safety reason. For instance, there's quite a few restrictions around when and how sobriety checkpoints can be implemented.

Even though guns have come up earlier in the thread as something that is strictly licensed, the fact remains it is far easier to have a gun in the US than most or maybe all developed nations, for similar reasons.

Also, I think because we are a "big" country (land mass wise), and our public transit is typically far less developed than Europe for instance, many things related to driving are taken as a "right" in America, and face far fewer restrictions than other developed countries. So, to summarize, I'd say it's mostly how our judicial system approaches restrictive laws (like what you are proposing), informed by US culture and judicial precedent.
Again, my point is simple. The law already exists, it is called speeding. It is against the law to exceed the speed limit whether you are driving in New York City or Wyoming. If you can not ever drive legally above 80 mph in the USA, why is it easy to obtain a vehicle that can double that speed? This is not situational, it is uncompromising. Try telling the court you were going 80 mph, but no one was around so you thought it would be ok. See how that defense works for you.
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      04-25-2011, 04:53 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIS View Post
I appreciate the feedback, and please understand I am not advocating more government regulation. My point is simple, if speeding is illegal (and it is); why allow manufacturers to sell cars that go 3 times the legal limit on public roads? This isn't about education, or responsibility, or sobriety, it is about common sense. Let me give another example, while you can own a sub machine gun, you must have the proper license to do so. It is very difficult to obtain this license and strictly monitored by the ATF. Consequently, very few people have machine guns in their homes. Again, speeding is not a judgement call, it is against the law, so why is it legal to sell cars that can easily exceed the speed limit?
Well, if it was difficult to obtain a DL it would be better for all of us, don't you think?
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      04-25-2011, 04:58 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by swartzentruber View Post
I'd have to say cultural -- historically, the US has been far less likely to ban or restrict many things than many other developed nations. Additionally, there's likely some judicial precedent involved. Our court system seems more likely than many other developed nations to overturn restrictive laws, unless there is a compelling (to them) public safety reason. For instance, there's quite a few restrictions around when and how sobriety checkpoints can be implemented.

Even though guns have come up earlier in the thread as something that is strictly licensed, the fact remains it is far easier to have a gun in the US than most or maybe all developed nations, for similar reasons.

Also, I think because we are a "big" country (land mass wise), and our public transit is typically far less developed than Europe for instance, many things related to driving are taken as a "right" in America, and face far fewer restrictions than other developed countries. So, to summarize, I'd say it's mostly how our judicial system approaches restrictive laws (like what you are proposing), informed by US culture and judicial precedent.
+1. Otherwise, obtaining a driver's license would be made much more stringent & costly (as it is in many European countries).

Also, it would be far too costly (since it's a big country w/ extensive existing road infrastructure) to improve all the freeways and highways to accommodate increase in speed limit .
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      04-25-2011, 04:59 PM   #29
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Well, if it was difficult to obtain a DL it would be better for all of us, don't you think?
The auto industry would lobby vigorously against it.
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      04-25-2011, 05:10 PM   #30
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The auto industry would lobby vigorously against it.
Yup

hence why it hasn't happened yet
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      04-25-2011, 05:16 PM   #31
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Speeding isnít the only issue for road safety Ė driver attitude and behaviour and road condition management are far more relevant. Opinions will always vary of course but in my observation (wont say where) its not the speed as an absolute itís the behaviour in the conditions Ė recklessness is recklessness regardless of the speed. Virtually all cars are capable of exceeding the speed limit so the car nowadays is somewhat irrelevant in terms of speed capability.

OP Ė Iím intrigued why you would raise this when you drive an M3 Ė what has prompted your question ? And why donít you lead by example and drive a base model 3 ? Just curious as your post was a bit odd.
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      04-25-2011, 05:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by KIS View Post
Again, my point is simple. The law already exists, it is called speeding. It is against the law to exceed the speed limit whether you are driving in New York City or Wyoming. If you can not ever drive legally above 80 mph in the USA, why is it easy to obtain a vehicle that can double that speed?
Our court system typically takes a relatively conservative view, and strikes down laws (nationwide) that it finds too restrictive, unless there's a compelling public safety reason. Thus, a law like "everyone in the front seat must wear a seatbelt" can pass muster, since they can show that wearing seatbelts is highly correlated with lower accident fatality rates. It is much harder (or impossible) to prove that there's a compelling safety reason to prohibit someone from owning a car that can exceed the speed limit, so a law like that would likely be struck down.

This is painting US law in broad stripes, but I think generally speaking, in the US you are presumed to have the right (whatever it is), unless there is a compelling public safety reason to deprive you of that right. Unless someone can prove that restricting cars to 80mph will lower fatalities, it is unlikely a law like that would make it through the courts. A lot of it really comes down to how a judicial system balances public good with individual good, and the US system leans toward individual good, and is usually far less restrictive on individuals, even when it might make sense.
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      04-25-2011, 05:29 PM   #33
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I'm sure gps governed cars are coming in the future...I just hope I'm not around to see it.
Big Brother.
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      04-25-2011, 05:31 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIS View Post
I appreciate the feedback, and please understand I am not advocating more government regulation. My point is simple, if speeding is illegal (and it is); why allow manufacturers to sell cars that go 3 times the legal limit on public roads? This isn't about education, or responsibility, or sobriety, it is about common sense. Let me give another example, while you can own a sub machine gun, you must have the proper license to do so. It is very difficult to obtain this license and strictly monitored by the ATF. Consequently, very few people have machine guns in their homes. Again, speeding is not a judgement call, it is against the law, so why is it legal to sell cars that can easily exceed the speed limit?
Law enforcement wants us to speed. It fattens the coffers of the local governments and keeps taxes down for residents.
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      04-25-2011, 05:37 PM   #35
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Well, is it the M3 drivers? I bet 99.99% of the drivers did drive above speed limit (and currently are).
100% (every single one of us)
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      04-25-2011, 05:37 PM   #36
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Speeding isnít the only issue for road safety Ė driver attitude and behaviour and road condition management are far more relevant. Opinions will always vary of course but in my observation (wont say where) its not the speed as an absolute itís the behaviour in the conditions Ė recklessness is recklessness regardless of the speed. Virtually all cars are capable of exceeding the speed limit so the car nowadays is somewhat irrelevant in terms of speed capability.

OP Ė Iím intrigued why you would raise this when you drive an M3 Ė what has prompted your question ? And why donít you lead by example and drive a base model 3 ? Just curious as your post was a bit odd.
Thank you for asking. I was prompted to pose this question after reading the berating another forum member received when asking for help after receiving a rather large ticket for speeding. I thought it was comical that fellow M3 enthusiasts would be shocked and appalled that someone was actually speeding in an M3. It led me to ask, why sell cars, that to be fully appreciated one must ignore the law? I, for one, drive quickly, but I believe responsibly, and I have an excellent traffic attorney just a cell phone call away.
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      04-25-2011, 06:10 PM   #37
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Thank you for asking. I was prompted to pose this question after reading the berating another forum member received when asking for help after receiving a rather large ticket for speeding. I thought it was comical that fellow M3 enthusiasts would be shocked and appalled that someone was actually speeding in an M3. It led me to ask, why sell cars, that to be fully appreciated one must ignore the law? I, for one, drive quickly, but I believe responsibly, and I have an excellent traffic attorney just a cell phone call away.
Fair comment indeed and I'm sure I'm no lilly white either. Its the driving attitude that counts more than a posted limit - driving 10 kph (6mph) over what others are doing in heavy traffic and heavy rain is a recipe for a disaster as is 200+ on a tree lined road. its all matter of personal choice in the circumstances.

Its not just us in the car its the others around us.
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      04-25-2011, 07:58 PM   #38
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...Why is it legal to have cars that can easily exceed 80 mph? ...
Is there any car that cannot do 80+ mph?

Oh yeah, maybe a Prius.


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      04-25-2011, 08:32 PM   #39
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Is there any car that cannot do 80+ mph?

Oh yeah, maybe a Prius.


Cheers.
it can

I've seen them go 90+

I laugh cause at 90+, they're burning more fuel than I am in 7th gear in my V8
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      04-25-2011, 08:56 PM   #40
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I've seen them go 90+
Being stuck to the bumper of a truck going downhill doesn't count.


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      04-25-2011, 09:18 PM   #41
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While reading the most recent thread on speeding and the very predictable responses by both the nannies on this forum as well as the guys with their hair on fire. Why is it legal to have cars that can easily exceed 80 mph? With technology you can manufacture cars that are limited to 80 mph on public roads, and that have gps that would eliminate the speed governor when you're on a recognized track. My point is simple. When you allow manufacturers to produce cars that can easily triple most speed limits, why are you surprised when people actually do it?
Would I be one of the aforementioned 'nannies'. I don't think anyone advocates speeding in neighborhoods, etc. but why on earth would we want cars that are limited to a certain mph, why not 50, 40, and we certainly don't need anymore government in our lives for god's sake, the car is the last thing left they haven't yet taken.. I have 4 kids, I like to drive fast but do so in a responsible manner, ok every now and then on the open road and behind the boys on the track!
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      04-25-2011, 10:14 PM   #42
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Would I be one of the aforementioned 'nannies'. I don't think anyone advocates speeding in neighborhoods, etc. but why on earth would we want cars that are limited to a certain mph, why not 50, 40, and we certainly don't need anymore government in our lives for god's sake, the car is the last thing left they haven't yet taken.. I have 4 kids, I like to drive fast but do so in a responsible manner, ok every now and then on the open road and behind the boys on the track!
Only you know whether the nannie description is accurate. My purpose was to encourage the "nannies" to accept the obvious. Specifically, an M3 is a very powerful ride, and it is normal to use a heavy right foot on occasion.
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      04-25-2011, 10:47 PM   #43
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This is actually a very intriguing question, one I don't think I've ever asked myself, yet my GF asks me all the time when I say I'm going to purchase a sport's car - "Why get a sports car when you'll never go fast on the roads?" (it would be my daily driver).

I have an answer for my GF, but sadly do not have an answer to the speed limit dilemma. Possibly an older phenomena brewed from the 60/70s muscle car era that still lingers?
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      04-26-2011, 12:22 AM   #44
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Is there any car that cannot do 80+ mph?

Oh yeah, maybe a Prius.


Cheers.
I saw one pulled over the other day... How embarrasing to get pulled over in a prius
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