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      04-20-2011, 11:14 AM   #23
Kyoshi71
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      04-20-2011, 11:19 AM   #24
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Eclipsis knows his shiznit. I've learned a ton reading his post.
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      04-20-2011, 12:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I you insist on making this thread a proverbial DCT vs 6MT thread go ahead, I won't be wasting more time on this.
I just re-read Eric's post and I'm pretty sure he didn't "insist" on anything, let alone making this thread into "a proverbial DCT vs 6MT thread".
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      04-20-2011, 05:16 PM   #26
Tim B.
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[quote=Eclipsis;9413225]Here's a funny story: the first wax I ever used was Zymol Vintage on my father's Diablo when I was about 12 years old. The smell of that wax was actually what got me so interested in learning the finer points of detailing. I've used most of the Zymol wax line, excluding Solaris, Royale, and Ital. I find your claim of my ignorance on the subject quite insulting. There's no need to say something like that. I've tested more waxes than you'll likely ever encounter, so I feel like my knowledge can be quite useful to others.

Allow me to define (IMO) the three key features of any LSP, be it wax or sealant:

1. Application: the smell, texture, and ease of use of a LSP
2. Durability: the length of time a LSP is able to retain its protect properties (liquid sheeting, UV protection, contamination protection)
3. Appearance: how the LSP allows light to interact with the paint beneath the LSP

The overall importance of each feature differs from person to person. You said "I want my wax to smell good, if it stinks, I won't enjoy working on my car as much." That's fine, and application is a subjective experience that can't be quantified. On the other hand, durability and appearance are absolutely quantifiable and this is where Zymol's price premium deserves scrutiny.

You can talk all day long about how great Zymol is durability-wise, but my own experiences with Zymol have been average at best.

On a properly prepped surface and under SoCal's subtropical climate, Zymol Concours and Destiny's sheeting abilities lasted for four months on my old E92 M3. In comparison, Collonite 476 lasted for 11 months. When waxes that are orders of magnitude cheaper than Zymol best Zymol in durability, there's something wrong with Zymol, not their competition. I unfortunately own both Zymol waxes because customers requested Zymol waxes a while back.


http://eclipsisna.com/eclipsism3.html

My work should, at the very least, vouch for whether or not I'm able to pick up on Zymol or any other wax's visual attributes. If you'd like, I'll apply Concours and any other wax to my new M3's hood and take pictures under various lighting conditions and angles. You'll be happily surprised how little a wax affects a car's ability to disperse light when the car's paint is leveled properly. Did you ever consider you're experiencing some sort of placebo effect? I don't like it when people are deceived into buying a product that's purported to be better than something much cheaper. This forum should be about helping each other save money when possible.


Holy cr@p! You did all of that to that car??
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      04-20-2011, 05:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim B. View Post
For you guys that have used this, I was wondering if it's worth it? They claim it's made for BMW paint. Swissvax seems to get alot of praise and i was interested in giving it a shot. Thanks for any input.
Tim
I've used it in the past and you definitely can't go wrong with Swissvax - they are a very reputable company that make great products for automotive detailing.

But...if you are looking for a wax that is "worth it" without blowing hundreds of dollars, then I would recommend Dodo Juice Supernatural wax. Especially since you have a black car - works best with darker colored vehicles.

Dodo Juice Supernatural is used by many very well respected professional detailers and is often praised as the wax that is priced in the mid-range, but peforms as well if not better than almost any other wax out there.

Just my 2 cents...
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      04-28-2011, 02:36 AM   #28
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Swissvax Blau-Weiss FTW!!!!!!!
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      04-29-2011, 06:05 PM   #29
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I'll bet in a blind test it would be difficult to confirm which wax was which or produced a superior look.
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      05-03-2011, 09:28 PM   #30
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If any of you knew the technology that goes into each Swissvax product you would be convinced... like i am...

Heck, the CEO spent about 6 hours with me working on a car... Swissvax is on a whole different level from anything else.
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      05-03-2011, 09:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridonculous View Post

But...if you are looking for a wax that is "worth it" without blowing hundreds of dollars, then I would recommend Dodo Juice Supernatural wax. Especially since you have a black car - works best with darker colored vehicles.

Dodo Juice Supernatural is used by many very well respected professional detailers and is often praised as the wax that is priced in the mid-range, but peforms as well if not better than almost any other wax out there.

Just my 2 cents...
+1 So far this is the best wax I've used. Very impressed.
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      05-03-2011, 10:14 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridonculous View Post
But...if you are looking for a wax that is "worth it" without blowing hundreds of dollars, then I would recommend Dodo Juice Supernatural wax.
250ml shows to be $199, do they have a cheaper version?
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      05-04-2011, 12:26 AM   #33
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Not too familiar with Collinite 845. Any opinions on how it compares to say Fourstar UPP or 1Z glanz wax in terms of durability and looks.

Just about to order the fourstar upp. Oh and for a sealant, I actually prefer beading over sheeting action.
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      05-04-2011, 03:14 AM   #34
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Holy cow I can't believe how some of this has gone.

Ivory carnauba? Yellow Carnauba? Melting wax with your hands? Let's get a few things straightened up for the benefit of whoever might read this thread.

Carnauba wax is harvested and then sold based off of grade. The highest grade being "T1" which is naturally a yellowish brown. The only way of getting white carnauba is by bleaching it, or cutting it up into fine tiny pieces so that is appears to be whitish in color.
You certainly won't be melting any carnauba with your hands if you're a normal human being: the melting temperature for carnauba is rated between 180-187 degrees Fahrenheit. The only reason for such tales is because of marketing ability.

Take into account that when you sell a premium product, you need to be able to tell your clients how special that product is. Ferrari does this by telling about their rich racing heritage (bet they won't talk about Honda's!). Bentley talks about their craftsmanship (never mind their cars breaking down and some parts sourced from everyday auto suppliers!). Zymol is no different. In a sea of waxes, they make the everyday person yearn for one of theirs by setting themselves away from the pack. "Oh no, you have to apply this is a special matter after doing the super-secret handshake or the wax won't bond!" Sure you do... because waxes work through bonding... OR they work by the actual wax being suspended in solvents and when the solvents evaporate away, a thin film of wax is left behind.

Here I apply Zymol Atlantique using a foam applicator:




The end result was beautiful, but don't think for a second I'll give more credit to the wax than the 50+ man-hours that went into the work.




That all being said, I'm a real believer in giving these products their fair chance. Here's a nice way to think about things that I tell to people who automatically claim Zymol, Swissvax and other high end products "aren't worth it":
Say you want a vehicle that can seat two people and run a sub 10 second quarter mile...

Is a twin-turbo Lamborghini Gallardo the ultimate rip-off because a stock Suzuki Hayabusa will also do the job?

If you're willing to pay what the product costs, it's not a rip-off. There's nothing wrong with expensive watches, cars, waxes, purses, shoes, pens, etc if that's what you like. It's always funny to listen to the arguments of crazy car owners like what's going on here.

"Oh no! That's a rip off - you spend over $200 on some wax that won't make your car look better!" ...and then they quietly drive off in a $65k BMW 3 series with a 4 liter V8 engine. Aaahhh.... that's not a rip off: we know you HAVE to have a 400hp vehicle to get where you're going. Let's not forget how much those huge calipers will come in handy when you run off to buy a gallon of milk. We can justify the overpriced machines we buy that maybe .001% of the population of owners can actually drive to the vehicle's limits, but when it comes to spending a tiny fraction of the cost on another luxury item, it's suddenly off limits?

Maybe it is all a placebo effect. If that's the case, I wish I could find an actual placebo pill that worked on me. Imagine waking up everyday and taking a pill that made you feel your absolute best all day without fail - what price could you put on that?
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      05-04-2011, 10:23 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuttGrunt View Post
Holy cow I can't believe how some of this has gone.
Very interesting. You have a recommendation for something more affordable than Zymol Atlantique, i.e. under $100? Or is it always 'ya get what ya pay for?'
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      05-04-2011, 11:42 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Very interesting. You have a recommendation for something more affordable than Zymol Atlantique, i.e. under $100? Or is it always 'ya get what ya pay for?'
NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO


I can play either side here. If you want to justify some of the high dollar waxes, I can relate. If you think they're a waste of money, I can relate. Do you get what you pay for? Does your M3 get where its going 4x better than a civic? No, it doesn't. So if you have an M3, did you get ripped off? Not exactly... it's not exactly apples to apples.

If you want a nice expensive wax, you can find it. If you want a nice medium priced wax, you can find it. If you want a cheaper wax that still gets the job done without issue, you can find that too. A $2,000 purse doesn't hold lipstick 10x better than a $200 purse, but they both have their place and their markets.

Want a wax under $100? Take your pick as many get great reviews: the entire standard Dodo Juice line-up, P21S 100% carnauba, Lusso Oro, Pete's, 50/50, Souveran, Fuzion, etc, etc
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      05-05-2011, 05:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
250ml shows to be $199, do they have a cheaper version?
You can get a 30ml container of Dodo Juice Supernatural for like $30. It's a good size to test it and see the results yourself. A 30ml will actually last you a few whole car applications.
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      05-05-2011, 09:08 PM   #38
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Yeah the Supernatural (when you use a foam pad) has very little waste and applies sparingly compared to other 50-150 dollar waxes I've used. I'm sure most really hard waxes act the same way
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      05-05-2011, 09:20 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuttGrunt View Post
NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO


I can play either side here. If you want to justify some of the high dollar waxes, I can relate. If you think they're a waste of money, I can relate. Do you get what you pay for? Does your M3 get where its going 4x better than a civic? No, it doesn't. So if you have an M3, did you get ripped off? Not exactly... it's not exactly apples to apples.

If you want a nice expensive wax, you can find it. If you want a nice medium priced wax, you can find it. If you want a cheaper wax that still gets the job done without issue, you can find that too. A $2,000 purse doesn't hold lipstick 10x better than a $200 purse, but they both have their place and their markets.

Want a wax under $100? Take your pick as many get great reviews: the entire standard Dodo Juice line-up, P21S 100% carnauba, Lusso Oro, Pete's, 50/50, Souveran, Fuzion, etc, etc

I totally get what you're saying
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      05-05-2011, 09:23 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridonculous View Post
You can get a 30ml container of Dodo Juice Supernatural for like $30. It's a good size to test it and see the results yourself. A 30ml will actually last you a few whole car applications.

I just ordered that exact thing a few days ago....30mls of supernatural.....gonna try that one out as well as a couple of other sample sizes from Dodo
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      05-05-2011, 09:23 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridonculous View Post
You can get a 30ml container of Dodo Juice Supernatural for like $30. It's a good size to test it and see the results yourself. A 30ml will actually last you a few whole car applications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Yeah the Supernatural (when you use a foam pad) has very little waste and applies sparingly compared to other 50-150 dollar waxes I've used. I'm sure most really hard waxes act the same way
Thank you, I will try it out. Can you recommend an applicator pad?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MuttGrunt View Post
NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO


I can play either side here. If you want to justify some of the high dollar waxes, I can relate. If you think they're a waste of money, I can relate. Do you get what you pay for? Does your M3 get where its going 4x better than a civic? No, it doesn't. So if you have an M3, did you get ripped off? Not exactly... it's not exactly apples to apples.

If you want a nice expensive wax, you can find it. If you want a nice medium priced wax, you can find it. If you want a cheaper wax that still gets the job done without issue, you can find that too. A $2,000 purse doesn't hold lipstick 10x better than a $200 purse, but they both have their place and their markets.

Want a wax under $100? Take your pick as many get great reviews: the entire standard Dodo Juice line-up, P21S 100% carnauba, Lusso Oro, Pete's, 50/50, Souveran, Fuzion, etc, etc
Makes sense, thanks.
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      05-05-2011, 09:32 PM   #42
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Glad I could be of some help to some of you in that case. Happy detailing fellas!
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      05-05-2011, 09:46 PM   #43
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Anything made of soft foam that isn't full of sand...
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      05-06-2011, 03:49 PM   #44
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Quote:
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Anything made of soft foam that isn't full of sand...


Although i like the Yellow ones or the black Swissvax ones.
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