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      04-14-2011, 10:12 PM   #1
Tim B.
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Swissvax Blau Weiss worth $170??

For you guys that have used this, I was wondering if it's worth it? They claim it's made for BMW paint. Swissvax seems to get alot of praise and i was interested in giving it a shot. Thanks for any input.
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      04-16-2011, 08:59 AM   #2
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I use zymol concours, and it's worth it to me. no other cheap wax can compare
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      04-16-2011, 09:03 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim B. View Post
For you guys that have used this, I was wondering if it's worth it? They claim it's made for BMW paint. Swissvax seems to get alot of praise and i was interested in giving it a shot. Thanks for any input.
Tim
Yep

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515335
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      04-16-2011, 01:52 PM   #4
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zymol concours only
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      04-16-2011, 02:09 PM   #5
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I haven't had a chance to try the Swissvax BW, but you might also look at Pinnacle Souveran for a very deep, wet, carnauba look at about half the price of the Swissvax.

If you don't want to wax every 2-4 weeks try Zaino Z-2 Pro which should last around 4-6 months for a garaged, but daily driven, vehicle.

With all of the products I've tried I admit I'm curious about the Blau Weiss, but feel at some point marketing and placebo have to be kicking in.

Hopefully someone with more carnauba experience can kick into this thread with some info on how waxes cab be tailored for specific paints.
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      04-16-2011, 04:44 PM   #6
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Yeah, I've used the Zaino on my E46M3 years ago. And also P21S too. And now I have Collinite 845 and Adams Buttery wax(hadn't used it yet). All of these waxes are pretty good and cost less than $35 or so. So that's what made me curious about the Swissvax....is it really for our paint and is it worth $170?! I've never used Zymol either though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by B R A N D X® View Post
I haven't had a chance to try the Swissvax BW, but you might also look at Pinnacle Souveran for a very deep, wet, carnauba look at about half the price of the Swissvax.

If you don't want to wax every 2-4 weeks try Zaino Z-2 Pro which should last around 4-6 months for a garaged, but daily driven, vehicle.

With all of the products I've tried I admit I'm curious about the Blau Weiss, but feel at some point marketing and placebo have to be kicking in.

Hopefully someone with more carnauba experience can kick into this thread with some info on how waxes cab be tailored for specific paints.
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      04-16-2011, 06:38 PM   #7
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the big difference between these waxes and the likes of swissvax and zymol is the carnauba content by volume. Concours has 47% carnauba by volume (90 ivory and 10% yellow), the more carnauba by volume, the harder they are to apply, the more hydrophobic they are. when I say harder to apply, I mean that you can't use a PC to apply it. you have to melt the wax in your hands and then apply it by hand. It works quite well. these waxes are also super easy to buff off with a simple microfiber towel. you sometimes need to go back and hour or 2 later to buff again as there can be some re-hazing. put on 2 coats of wax and you'll be drying your car with water

Here are some videos from youtube

concours wax




dry car with water

But the one thing I really want are the so-called superhydrophobic coatings using nanotechnologies.
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      04-17-2011, 08:01 AM   #8
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Can you guys tell me where you get the best deal on zymol concours
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      04-17-2011, 08:19 AM   #9
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Can you guys tell me where you get the best deal on zymol concours
Do you use the zymol cleaner before you wax everytime, or is that unnecessary ? Thanks
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      04-17-2011, 09:30 AM   #10
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Do you use the zymol cleaner before you wax everytime, or is that unnecessary ? Thanks
I my experience, it makes the paint glass smooth. this helps your hand glide on the paint and apply a thin coat. other than that, I don't really see a difference in terms of longevity, especially if you polished the paint before hand.
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      04-17-2011, 12:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90m3_6MT View Post
I my experience, it makes the paint glass smooth. this helps your hand glide on the paint and apply a thin coat. other than that, I don't really see a difference in terms of longevity, especially if you polished the paint before hand.
Thanks man, think i'm gonna give the Zymol a try!
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      04-17-2011, 01:15 PM   #12
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Thanks man, think i'm gonna give the Zymol a try!
alright, let me know what you think of it, I'm sure you'll love it
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      04-19-2011, 08:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90m3_6MT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coast ghost View Post
Do you use the zymol cleaner before you wax everytime, or is that unnecessary ? Thanks
I my experience, it makes the paint glass smooth. this helps your hand glide on the paint and apply a thin coat. other than that, I don't really see a difference in terms of longevity, especially if you polished the paint before hand.
. I ordered the zymol concours and HD cleaner, looking foward to the results. Thanks for the info!!
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      04-19-2011, 09:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coast ghost View Post
. I ordered the zymol concours and HD cleaner, looking foward to the results. Thanks for the info!!
forgot to tell you, when you apply the hd cleaner, apply it small sections at a time and don't let it dry on the paint or it will be harder to remove. other than that, everything is straight forward.
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      04-19-2011, 10:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90m3_6MT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coast ghost View Post
. I ordered the zymol concours and HD cleaner, looking foward to the results. Thanks for the info!!
forgot to tell you, when you apply the hd cleaner, apply it small sections at a time and don't let it dry on the paint or it will be harder to remove. other than that, everything is straight forward.
Thanks, this is my first time doing the whole process, so I appreciate those tips that will save me time and headaches. Sorry to jump but what's the best clay bar, in your opinion?
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      04-19-2011, 01:52 PM   #16
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but Concours, like most Zymol products, is a waste of money. e90m3, you can't judge a wax only by its carnauba content. This fallacy has existed for years but it simply isn't true. By that logic, wax with a 99% carnauba content would be incredible. It would be worthless because it would be wholly unusable without other ingredients (solvents, oils) to make it applicable.

Tim B, enjoy your purchase. Concours isn't a bad product, it just isn't worth the premium. In the future, look at cheaper waxes and buy them knowing you're getting the best possible performance with the smallest buy-in.

Last edited by eclipsisNA; 04-19-2011 at 02:02 PM.
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      04-19-2011, 03:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B R A N D X® View Post
I haven't had a chance to try the Swissvax BW, but you might also look at Pinnacle Souveran for a very deep, wet, carnauba look at about half the price of the Swissvax.

If you don't want to wax every 2-4 weeks try Zaino Z-2 Pro which should last around 4-6 months for a garaged, but daily driven, vehicle.

With all of the products I've tried I admit I'm curious about the Blau Weiss, but feel at some point marketing and placebo have to be kicking in.

Hopefully someone with more carnauba experience can kick into this thread with some info on how waxes cab be tailored for specific paints.
I have had great results with Pinnacle products, in fact that's about all I use anymore. The Wolfgang Sealant 3.0 is awesome stuff also.
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      04-19-2011, 08:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipsis View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Concours, like most Zymol products, is a waste of money. e90m3, you can't judge a wax only by its carnauba content. This fallacy has existed for years but it simply isn't true. By that logic, wax with a 99% carnauba content would be incredible. It would be worthless because it would be wholly unusable without other ingredients (solvents, oils) to make it applicable.

Tim B, enjoy your purchase. Concours isn't a bad product, it just isn't worth the premium. In the future, look at cheaper waxes and buy them knowing you're getting the best possible performance with the smallest buy-in.

You're right about not judging a wax by it's carnauba content, and yes 99% wax would be unusable, but the rest of your statement shows your ignorance and the fact that you've never tried concours. Zymol waxes look, feel and react a certain way on your car that others just don't seem to match. there are many criteria when choosing a wax, it's not a one size fits all type of product. Zymol will give you an immense warmth and wet look to your paint while a product like NXT will seem cold but very reflective. if you want to apply your wax by machine, zymol is not for you. I have used menzerna powerlock sealant, great to apply did last a long time, but the beading and slickness that is characteristic of Concours just wasn't there after 2 washes. also I hated the smell. I want my wax to smell good, if it stinks, I won't enjoy working on my car as much. Concours, because of the high carnauba content, will cure in a very hard layer, which makes it relatively long lasting. much longer lasting than cheaper carnauba waxes I've tried. there is also a trade off between yellow and ivory carnauba. Ivory is yellow carnauba that has been further refined. it will give more depth but will also be not as long lasting as the yellow. Again it depends what you're after, a good run of the mill wax to protect, or one that will knock your sock off when you seal your long hours of labour in order to achieve perfection, everything is in the details. The high end waxes by zymol (ie concours and up) give a depth to a cars paint that I have not seen with other products. Some people (like you Eclipsis) won't see the difference, and that's fine, but for those of us that can tell the difference, nothing else ever comes close.

What you're saying is the equivalent of saying why buy an M3 when a chipped 335i will be as fast from 0-60 and will be cheaper. The reason is because of the feel of the thing, its subtleties. The sum of it's parts is why I love it. I also plan to buy either the vintage or the royale.
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      04-20-2011, 01:03 AM   #19
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Here's a funny story: the first wax I ever used was Zymol Vintage on my father's Diablo when I was about 12 years old. The smell of that wax was actually what got me so interested in learning the finer points of detailing. I've used most of the Zymol wax line, excluding Solaris, Royale, and Ital. I find your claim of my ignorance on the subject quite insulting. There's no need to say something like that. I've tested more waxes than you'll likely ever encounter, so I feel like my knowledge can be quite useful to others.

Allow me to define (IMO) the three key features of any LSP, be it wax or sealant:

1. Application: the smell, texture, and ease of use of a LSP
2. Durability: the length of time a LSP is able to retain its protect properties (liquid sheeting, UV protection, contamination protection)
3. Appearance: how the LSP allows light to interact with the paint beneath the LSP

The overall importance of each feature differs from person to person. You said "I want my wax to smell good, if it stinks, I won't enjoy working on my car as much." That's fine, and application is a subjective experience that can't be quantified. On the other hand, durability and appearance are absolutely quantifiable and this is where Zymol's price premium deserves scrutiny.

You can talk all day long about how great Zymol is durability-wise, but my own experiences with Zymol have been average at best.

On a properly prepped surface and under SoCal's subtropical climate, Zymol Concours and Destiny's sheeting abilities lasted for four months on my old E92 M3. In comparison, Collonite 476 lasted for 11 months. When waxes that are orders of magnitude cheaper than Zymol best Zymol in durability, there's something wrong with Zymol, not their competition. I unfortunately own both Zymol waxes because customers requested Zymol waxes a while back.

Regarding appearance: "Some people (like you Eclipsis) won't see the difference, and that's fine, but for those of us that can tell the difference, nothing else ever comes close." This shouldn't turn into a pissing match, but do you really think I don't know what I'm looking at?

http://eclipsisna.com/eclipsism3.html

My work should, at the very least, vouch for whether or not I'm able to pick up on Zymol or any other wax's visual attributes. If you'd like, I'll apply Concours and any other wax to my new M3's hood and take pictures under various lighting conditions and angles. You'll be happily surprised how little a wax affects a car's ability to disperse light when the car's paint is leveled properly. Did you ever consider you're experiencing some sort of placebo effect? I don't like it when people are deceived into buying a product that's purported to be better than something much cheaper. This forum should be about helping each other save money when possible.

You comparing my arguments to the "M3 vs. 335" debate is a logical fallacy that I'm not going to even bother with. You're comparing complex machines with thousands of parts meshing together to a wax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e90m3_6MT View Post
You're right about not judging a wax by it's carnauba content, and yes 99% wax would be unusable, but the rest of your statement shows your ignorance and the fact that you've never tried concours. Zymol waxes look, feel and react a certain way on your car that others just don't seem to match. there are many criteria when choosing a wax, it's not a one size fits all type of product. Zymol will give you an immense warmth and wet look to your paint while a product like NXT will seem cold but very reflective. if you want to apply your wax by machine, zymol is not for you. I have used menzerna powerlock sealant, great to apply did last a long time, but the beading and slickness that is characteristic of Concours just wasn't there after 2 washes. also I hated the smell. I want my wax to smell good, if it stinks, I won't enjoy working on my car as much. Concours, because of the high carnauba content, will cure in a very hard layer, which makes it relatively long lasting. much longer lasting than cheaper carnauba waxes I've tried. there is also a trade off between yellow and ivory carnauba. Ivory is yellow carnauba that has been further refined. it will give more depth but will also be not as long lasting as the yellow. Again it depends what you're after, a good run of the mill wax to protect, or one that will knock your sock off when you seal your long hours of labour in order to achieve perfection, everything is in the details. The high end waxes by zymol (ie concours and up) give a depth to a cars paint that I have not seen with other products. Some people (like you Eclipsis) won't see the difference, and that's fine, but for those of us that can tell the difference, nothing else ever comes close.

What you're saying is the equivalent of saying why buy an M3 when a chipped 335i will be as fast from 0-60 and will be cheaper. The reason is because of the feel of the thing, its subtleties. The sum of it's parts is why I love it. I also plan to buy either the vintage or the royale.
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      04-20-2011, 08:55 AM   #20
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^ Exactly right. Zymol is to be able to tell your car buddies, hey I bought this!

You have to take into consideration cars parked outdoors as well, in different climates.

Zymol here in NC, in winter..., car parked outside...lucky if you get 2-3 months out of it. LUCKY

Collinite 845 or 476s will get you an easy 6 months, outside. And it is a whopping $15...

I do not care how the car looks after I apply an LSP, I make sure the surface is clear of swirls and then PROTECTED. Collinite has done the trick for the last ten years so I will always use it.
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      04-20-2011, 09:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
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^ Exactly right. Zymol is to be able to tell your car buddies, hey I bought this!

You have to take into consideration cars parked outdoors as well, in different climates.

Zymol here in NC, in winter..., car parked outside...lucky if you get 2-3 months out of it. LUCKY

Collinite 845 or 476s will get you an easy 6 months, outside. And it is a whopping $15...

I do not care how the car looks after I apply an LSP, I make sure the surface is clear of swirls and then PROTECTED. Collinite has done the trick for the last ten years so I will always use it.


I happen to agree... Zymol isn't NEARLY worth the premium in cost!
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      04-20-2011, 10:57 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipsis View Post
Here's a funny story: the first wax I ever used was Zymol Vintage on my father's Diablo when I was about 12 years old. The smell of that wax was actually what got me so interested in learning the finer points of detailing. I've used most of the Zymol wax line, excluding Solaris, Royale, and Ital. I find your claim of my ignorance on the subject quite insulting. There's no need to say something like that. I've tested more waxes than you'll likely ever encounter, so I feel like my knowledge can be quite useful to others.

Allow me to define (IMO) the three key features of any LSP, be it wax or sealant:

1. Application: the smell, texture, and ease of use of a LSP
2. Durability: the length of time a LSP is able to retain its protect properties (liquid sheeting, UV protection, contamination protection)
3. Appearance: how the LSP allows light to interact with the paint beneath the LSP

The overall importance of each feature differs from person to person. You said "I want my wax to smell good, if it stinks, I won't enjoy working on my car as much." That's fine, and application is a subjective experience that can't be quantified. On the other hand, durability and appearance are absolutely quantifiable and this is where Zymol's price premium deserves scrutiny.

You can talk all day long about how great Zymol is durability-wise, but my own experiences with Zymol have been average at best.

On a properly prepped surface and under SoCal's subtropical climate, Zymol Concours and Destiny's sheeting abilities lasted for four months on my old E92 M3. In comparison, Collonite 476 lasted for 11 months. When waxes that are orders of magnitude cheaper than Zymol best Zymol in durability, there's something wrong with Zymol, not their competition. I unfortunately own both Zymol waxes because customers requested Zymol waxes a while back.

Regarding appearance: "Some people (like you Eclipsis) won't see the difference, and that's fine, but for those of us that can tell the difference, nothing else ever comes close." This shouldn't turn into a pissing match, but do you really think I don't know what I'm looking at?

http://eclipsisna.com/eclipsism3.html

My work should, at the very least, vouch for whether or not I'm able to pick up on Zymol or any other wax's visual attributes. If you'd like, I'll apply Concours and any other wax to my new M3's hood and take pictures under various lighting conditions and angles. You'll be happily surprised how little a wax affects a car's ability to disperse light when the car's paint is leveled properly. Did you ever consider you're experiencing some sort of placebo effect? I don't like it when people are deceived into buying a product that's purported to be better than something much cheaper. This forum should be about helping each other save money when possible.

You comparing my arguments to the "M3 vs. 335" debate is a logical fallacy that I'm not going to even bother with. You're comparing complex machines with thousands of parts meshing together to a wax.

First of all, I will acknowledge you did an amazing job wet sanding that car and that your work speaks for itself. I'm sorry for calling you out.

On another note, you say there are many criteria to judge a wax, most people seem to think that durability is the only one. that's fine.

What I like the most about concours is the way the water beads of the paint and the warmth it gives it. I don't care that I have to reapply 4 times a year, I sometimes do it every other month just because I love the freshly waxed look. to me, that's worth the zymol premium.

The argument of the 335 vs M3 is not a direct comparison of a car to a wax, but the idea of the difference to make a point about a comparison of a wax versus another.

the only other protection I would consider to replace my zymol would be something like the Gtechnic C1 sealant or maybe aquartz. But until the reviews and also a wider availability, I'll stick with my zymol. these both give an enormous gain in protection and don't compromise too much on the beading characteristic as compared to other sealants.

I you insist on making this thread a proverbial DCT vs 6MT thread go ahead, I won't be wasting more time on this.

to others considering zymol or swissvax, try them and make up your mind, a wax is matter of personal preference.
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