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      04-13-2011, 09:01 PM   #1
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Insideline obtained a production Lexus LFA (#032) for 4 days and did lots of tests and a head to head grudge match with the Porsche 911 GT2 RS.


For maximum pleasure, watch the videos with your earphones on. You will hear many sound frequencies from the LFA engine that are not audible from speakers. It is a completely different experience than listening through speakers.



Lexus LFA makes 515 wheel HP SAE (A monster in Carrera GT territory. Production LFA underrated according to MD automotive):


Quote:




We've spent many an hour dyno-testing cars here at MD Automotive in Westminster, CA. High horsepower cars, muscle cars, modified cars, you name it. However, none of them are like this 552-horsepower, 354 lb-ft LFA.




This car is special, and it clues you in the moment you thumb the steering wheel-mounted 'Engine Start' button. There's a very rapid starter whine vreeee like a race car rather than the usual chunter chunter. Then the engine explodes to life with a whomp before instantly settling into a slightly busy idle, the timbre of which telegraphs that this is no ordinary 9000-rpm V10.

There's practically no inertia -- or so it seems -- to the LFA's 4.8-liter power plant. You touch the throttle, the revs soar instantly. You lift, they die. Instantly. Normal cars aren't like this. Normal cars have soft engine mounts, sluggish tip-in, obvious electronic throttle manipulation, delayed engine braking, lots of suck. Not this one. Again, special.





At 2000 rpm, there's not much going on. This thing would get walked by a Camry down here, and that's only a slight exaggeration.

Good thing there are seven thousand revs remaining with which to do something.

By the time the LFA hits 5000 rpm the hairs on your neck are standing at attention and the short-stroke ten-pot is just hitting its stride. The intake and exhaust notes commingle and cavort, producing a texture that is somehow more than simply an aural phenomenon. It's no longer making a sound, it is orchestrating a mechanical symphony.





The tach needle brushes past seven -- where most engines have long since checked out for the evening -- and the LFA is now reaching its torque peak of 346 lb-ft (as measured at the wheels). Its sound hardens, taking on a shriek.

Two thousand revs left. It's still charging towards the redline with barely-restrained enthusiasm. Still plenty more gravy in the decanter. At 8000 revs you wonder how it is possible that this is a street-legal production car engine.





9000 rpm. The engine has ceased being a mechanical device and is now an organism, absolutely shredding the air around it with its howl. Here it reaches its power peak of 514 horsepower. Bam! The LFA hits the rev limiter like a wall. You have tunnel vision and your jaw is slightly agape. Your brain is the consistency of oatmeal.

This engine is gobsmacking. There are engines with more power, more torque, sure. But there is nothing on the planet like this engine. Its output as measured at the wheels -- which is slighly ahead of expectations -- is secondary to the experience it delivers. Raise a glass and wish it well, dear readers, as the 171 examples of the LFA that will be sold stateside will house the only known examples of this scintillating V10. Shame that something so good is limited to so few.






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      04-13-2011, 09:07 PM   #2
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Lexus LFA mountain runs:








Quote:

You know Glendora Mountain Road. It's been the star of other videos and stories on IL in the past. Well, today we absolutely destroyed it in the LFA. Video after the jump


There are few cars on earth more rewarding on this road than an LFA. Faster? Yes. Scarier? Certainly. But more rewarding? No.




Here's what Road test editor Mike Monticello had to say about hammering the LFA on one of the world's most challenging driving roads:

"If the rest of this LFA road trip were to go bust for some reason, it wouldn't matter one bit to me. Why? Because we got to run Lexus' supercar up and down Glendora Mountain Road.

Hard.

Great road. Phenomenal car, and finally off the highway and its element. GMR's twisties showed off the LFA's phenomenal turn-in and roadholding, while its shrieking V10 rocketed the front-engine wonder with scary-fast speed. It's utter fun, but everything happens with the speed of a cracking whip. One hundred percent concentration is required at all times. The 4.8-liter V10 isn't big on torque, but it still has plenty of sauce to break the rear tires loose. Terrific fun, and then you remember you're sliding around an extremely rare $375,000 machine.

The front end is a little vague at times and the steering could offer a bit more weight, especially in lower-speed corners where the LFA will push a bit. But in general, this is a fantastic machine with which to tear up a two-lane mountain road. And man, I've never rev-matched revs on downshifts so well in my life. I'm awesome. Oh, wait.

One thing's for sure: That triple-outlet exhaust means you have absolutely no chance of sneaking up on anyone. Ever."

So put that in your fun pipe and smoke it.
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      04-13-2011, 09:11 PM   #3
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Quote:

Tired of the literal shootouts and in the mood for us to get back to cars for a few minutes? Good.

After we'd finished track testing the 2012 Lexus LFA and 2011 Porsche 911 GT2, we took out the testing equipment, headed to the prepped side of the dragstrip and hooked up the tree for some head-to-head drag racing.

The Porsche is saddled with a clutch and six-speed manual while the Lexus has paddles and, essentially, launch control. Power and weight favor the Porsche. Repeatability and technology favor the Lexus. Jacquot and Walton are to-the-hundredth equal. Four races. Who ya got?

*note: Like with the track tested, we didn't know the Porsche was hiding fault codes when we were racing.
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      04-13-2011, 09:13 PM   #4
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Surface conditions were less than ideal compared to prepp'ed tracks (both cars would be much quicker on prep'ed tracks):




Quote:

2012 Lexus LFA vs. 2011 Porsche 911 GT2 RS. What we've got here is approximately $635,000 worth of alphabet soup with a combined 1,172 horsepower. We never thought we'd pit a Lexus against a 911 either, but in the end, while their approaches are worlds apart, these cars are both about going fast -- damn the cost.

The 2011 Porsche 911 GT2 RS is the latest in a decades-long refinement project by Porsche to build the best car the 911 could ever be. And if this isn't the peak, we're scared to see what is. The GT2 RS gets its 620 horsepower from a twin-turbo flat-6 mounted in the rear of the car and hooked to a six-speed manual transmission. This is how a Porsche should be.

Conversely, the 2012 Lexus LFA is in no way what a Lexus should be. Errr, let's rephrase that, it is in no way what Lexus is right now. There's not even a hybrid badge on it. Five-hundred fifty-two horsepower dumps out of a screaming 4.8-liter V10 that sounds barely removed from Toyota's F1 efforts. The transmission is a six-speed auto-clutch manual that, again, sounds and feels race-ready. The LFA doesn't feel like a Lexus, it feels like the future.

So it's the old school against the new school. V10 against flat-6. Turbos against revs and displacement. Porsche against....Lexus?

Vehicle: 2011 Porsche 911 GT2 RS
Odometer: 1,465
Date: 4/12/2011
Driver: Chris Walton
Price: $260,980

Specifications:
Drive Type: Rear-engine rear-wheel drive
Transmission Type: Six-speed manual
Engine Type: DOHC, 3.6-liter Flat-6
Displacement (cc/cu-in): 3,599cc (220 cu-in)
Redline (rpm): 6,800
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 620 @ 6,500
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 516 @ 2,250
Brake Type (front): 15-inch two-piece ventilated carbon-ceramic discs with 6-piston fixed calipers
Brake Type (rear): 13.8-inch two-piece ventilated carbon-ceramic discs with 4-piston fixed calipers
Steering System: Hydraulic-assist speed-proportional rack-and-pinion steering
Suspension Type (front): Independent MacPherson struts with dual lower ball joints, coil springs, stabilizer bar
Suspension Type (rear): Independent multilink, coil springs, stabilizer bar
Tire Size (front): 245/35 ZR19 (88Y)
Tire Size (rear): 325/30 ZR19 (101Y)
Tire Brand: Michelin
Tire Model: Pilot Sport Cup
Tire Type: Summer, asymmetrical
Wheel size: 19-by-9 inches front/19-by-12 inches rear
Wheel material (front/rear): Forged aluminum
As tested Curb Weight (lb): 3,167 (38.7% front bias)

Test Results:
Acceleration
0-30 (sec): 2.0
0-45 (sec): 2.7
0-60 (sec): 4.1
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 3.8
0-75 (sec): 5.2
1/4-mile (sec @ mph): 11.64 @ 127.24

Braking
30-0 (ft): 24
60-0 (ft): 100

Handling
Slalom (mph): 72.5
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 1.03

Sound
Db @ Idle: 61.1
Db @ Full Throttle: 85.1
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 73

RPM @ 70 mph: 2,150

Tester's Comments:

Acceleration: With stability/traction off, there's still some electronic management of A) allowable revs at a standstill and B) power/torque being made in the engine. Result is bogging launch with reduced power then a rush of power when it comes back online. I believe the electronics are keeping mechanical parts from breaking. Also, the tach needle is slow, so the shift light is critical to not hitting the rev limiter. Finally, it feels as if there is a pretty massive torque reduction between each upshift.

Braking: Incredibly hard pedal, zero dive un-fadeable brakes. The only difference in distance from run to run is attributable to the surface of the track.

Slalom: In the Porsche 911 tradition, the only way through a slalom course is with progressive throttle application -- otherwise (and even with maintenance throttle) the rear steps out. Luckily, the tires break free progressively, not abruptly. Best run is slow-in/fast-out to best utilize the LSD on exit -- and it works beautifully, rocketing through the finish line at W.O.T.

Skid pad: Large discrepancy between clockwise and counter-clockwise with driver inboard, (CCW) the car would oversteer slightly and controllably. However, with driver outboard, the car would understeer. Either way, the steering is highly informative and weighted just right.







Vehicle: 2012 Lexus LFA
Odometer: 2,994
Date: 4/12/2011
Driver: Josh Jacquot
Price: $375,000

Specifications:
Drive Type: Front-engine rear-wheel drive
Transmission Type: Six-speed single-clutch automated manual
Engine Type: DOHC, 3.6-liter V6
Displacement (cc/cu-in): 4,805cc (293 cu-in)
Redline (rpm): 9,000
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 552 @ 8,700
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 354 @ 6,800
Brake Type (front): 15.4-inch carbon-ceramic vented discs with six-piston aluminum calipers
Brake Type (rear): 14.2-inch carbon-ceramic vented discs with four-piston aluminum calipers
Steering System: Electric-assist speed-proportional rack-and-pinion steering
Suspension Type (front): Independent, coil springs, double wishbone, stabilizer bar
Suspension Type (rear): Independent, multilink, coil springs, stabilizer bar
Tire Size (front): 265/35 ZR20 (95Y)
Tire Size (rear): 305/30 ZR20 (99Y)
Tire Brand: Bridgestone
Tire Model: Potenza S001
Tire Type: Summer, asymmetrical
Wheel size: 20 inches front and rear
As tested Curb Weight (lb.): 3,546 (50.1% front bias)

Test Results:
Acceleration
0-30 (sec): 1.9
0-45 (sec): 2.7
0-60 (sec): 3.9
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 3.6
0-75 (sec): 5.1
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 11.63 @ 124 mph

Braking

30-0 (ft): 27
60-0 (ft): 106

Handling
Slalom (mph): 75.1
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 1.02

Sound
Db @ Idle: 52.3
Db @ Full Throttle: 92.3
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 71.9

RPM @ 70 mph: 2,950

Tester's Comments:

Acceleration: Default run in "auto" shifts @ 7,800 and C-R-A-W-L-S off the line. Otherwise, best launch came from a 3,000 rpm neutral drop with careful throttle modulation. 4,500 rpm -- per Lexus -- just smokes the tires.

Braking: Solid, consistent, stink-free stops. This test doesn't even touch the capability of this system.

Slalom: Incredibly well suited to the slalom. Balance and communication very good. Power delivery (high revs, little torque) very good for slalom. Easy to control as I rolled back into throttle at end of slalom. ESC is fully defeatable.

Skid pad: Very easy to find limit of grip and drive right to it. Third gear best for skid pad to reduce throttle sensitivity. ESC on drives like a Toyota -- can use WOT and simply steer. ESC off means balancing against the throttle. Powerslides are easy.



New Lexus video of LFA:







Last edited by 330CIZHP; 04-17-2011 at 02:24 AM.
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      04-13-2011, 09:45 PM   #5
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damn I love both
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      04-13-2011, 11:10 PM   #6
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The LF-A sounds amazing
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      04-13-2011, 11:11 PM   #7
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LF-A is a real driver's car...Its a bit pricey for a Lexus...but if it had no badge...it would def be and is considered one of the best driver's cars with an autbox/automanual.


THe porsche is ugly and turbocharged compared to it; since when is a proper driver's car turbocharged???

hahaha.

LF-A FTW. If only it weren't a Lexus and were a Porsche/Ferrari and looked a little more distinctive ie. 458 Italia style. Technically brilliant.
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      04-13-2011, 11:16 PM   #8
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Watch the videos with your earphones on. You will hear many sound frequencies from the LFA engine that are not audible from speakers. It is a completely different experience than listening through speakers.

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      04-14-2011, 12:17 AM   #9
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So is this like the fifth LF-A thread? Awesome car anyways. Been following Insideline's journal the whole time.
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      04-14-2011, 02:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRox View Post
LF-A is a real driver's car...Its a bit pricey for a Lexus...but if it had no badge...it would def be and is considered one of the best driver's cars with an autbox/automanual.


THe porsche is ugly and turbocharged compared to it; since when is a proper driver's car turbocharged???

hahaha.


LF-A FTW. If only it weren't a Lexus and were a Porsche/Ferrari and looked a little more distinctive ie. 458 Italia style. Technically brilliant.
The ignorance is strong with this one.
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      04-14-2011, 02:44 AM   #11
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LFA is something special. Love that engine's howl.
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      04-14-2011, 03:28 AM   #12
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For another perspective, here's the same LFA vs 2012 GT-R:

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      04-14-2011, 04:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZA786 View Post
For another perspective, here's the same LFA vs 2012 GT-R:
Exactly, the LFA is nothing to write home about performance wise. It isn't setting any records. Doesn't mean it is a bad car. Sounds great!

The 911 Turbo S with pdk and lauch control would DESTROY the LFA.
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      04-14-2011, 04:33 AM   #14
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Motor Trend LFA dyno results.

430.3 rhp / 283.1 wtq

I wouldn't exactly call it a monster as the OP stated. Ferrari is getting more hp/tq out of a V8.

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      04-14-2011, 08:38 AM   #15
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Starting to like the LFA. But I still think it's overpriced , but that's my opinion. I've seen OP talking about the LFA all over this board , and he's pretty biased upwards it.
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      04-14-2011, 08:41 AM   #16
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That was a pre-production prototype. It has no relevance here

This is an actual production model (#032) that dyno'ed at 515 wheel HP at present. The pre-production prototype is completely irrelevant since it was unfinished and was developed back in 2009.

The highest the Ferrari V8 SAE dyno'ing is 455 wheel HP of all the dynos on the net. LFA's 75.2 mph slalom speed is one of the highest slalom speeds they ever recorded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Motor Trend LFA dyno results.
I wouldn't exactly call it a monster as the OP stated. Ferrari is getting more hp/tq out of a V8.
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      04-14-2011, 08:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iMIAMI View Post
Starting to like the LFA. But I still think it's overpriced , but that's my opinion. I've seen OP talking about the LFA all over this board , and he's pretty biased upwards it.
In any event, I like the comparo.. All Porshe's look the same to me and it is hard to tell them apart lol. I like that black LFA. $375k asking price is too rich for my blood unfortunately. I'll take a poor man mobile Vette ZR1 and blow the door off both cars. Where is the "but, but it is a special car made of exotic materials with limited production" arguments from the resident trolls?
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      04-14-2011, 10:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
And the two cars that are faster in the slalom are (that ive seen)?

997.2 GT3 and 997 GT2
.
Were those higher than 75.2 mph of the LFA??? I find it hard to believe GT2 handles better than GT2 RS on the same surface condition. Being fair, don't forget Porsche GT RS cars wearing R compound dry-only Pilot Cup tires. Lexus LFA is wearing street all-weather Potenza S001 tires.

ZR1 did not beat the LFA either. It was slower around the track around Fuji speedway track. (upcoming BestMotoring episode).
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      04-14-2011, 01:20 PM   #19
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1 - You are correct on 129 mph for the Turbo S. The caveat is well-prepared drag strip.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...1165617301.pdf

2 - The track conditions were less than ideal, which is why the numbers are less than expected. Speculating numbers on ideal track conditions is completely futile.

3 - On exactly the same track where GT2 RS and LFA were tested, Edmunds also got 72 mph for the standard GT3 slalom, which is 3 mph slower than LFA's slalom speed on exactly the same track. Given the GT2 RS had the advantage of R compound tires for GT2 RS and being the Halo Porsche it MUST be putting down better slalom numbers than the GT3. Again, goes back to how the track is prepared resulting in variations in the numbers cars put down on different tracks.


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      04-14-2011, 01:39 PM   #20
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The GT3 slalom speed you posted was from a different track, let alone a different day.

At the end of the day, LFA had a higher slalom speed than GT2 RS with R compounds on the same track and same day and I am sure it would have been higher than the GT3 easily on the same day and track.

Trap speeds vary. I have even seen low Turbo S trap speeds (MotorTrend: ZR-1 vs Turbo S) where it trapped only at 123 mph.

Like the video says, LFA's fast automated transmission and wide powerband make it very easy to drive fast consistently on the strip.

I believe on a well prepared track, LFA is a 11.2 - 11.3 second car with trap speed (and using the real launch control system) in the high 120s since the 0-60 mph at 3.9 seconds is still off by 3/10ths (it already trapped 126 mph once in prototype form) and the GT2 RS to be 10.5 - 10.6 and low 130s in the trap speed (with the advantage of R compound tires).

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
The LFA results seem spot on with other tests, mid 11 second car with ~124-125 trap speed.
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      04-14-2011, 08:49 PM   #21
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If you want to bring in official lap times, Lexus LFA's official lap time was never released in order to avoid the Porsche/Nissan conflict where they got into a grudge match, but the chief engineer clearly said it was consistently in the low-7:20s (Lexus Europe Twitter Live Conversation).

Remember, I posted how Lexus LFA ran quicker than most high-7:20s in a direct comparison done by AutoBild.

Regarding the production LFA, this is the first ever test and the first track numbers. The dyno numbers are much higher than the pre-production LFAs (515 wheel HP vs 435 wheel HP). I am sure if it matches the official 0-60 mph in 3.6 seconds, it is a low-11 second car.

I posted a video of Lexus LFA going from 0 - 163 mph in 18 seconds (using real launch control system that Lexus did not allow InsideLine to use). I strongly doubt it will take another 32 seconds for it to get another 22 mph out of it. I don't think so.





Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
I think theyd be close all tested on the same day same tires. No other tests have the LFA slaloming that high and once again, the RS wasnt at full capacity.
Im not concerned about prototype times, the real cars arent proving to be all that fast in a straight given their lofty 560 hp.
Again, Id like to see results from a GT2 RS without a wheel issue, but at least we're in agreement it cant keep up with a GT2 RS, nor would on the track either.

Found this interesting:

RS is 20 seconds faster on the ring, ~3 seconds faster on hockenheim, and ~25 seconds faster to 300 kph (WOW)!

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/p...exus_lf-a.html
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      04-14-2011, 09:08 PM   #22
TK-421
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