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      05-25-2011, 06:19 PM   #177
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I didn't really have a problem with Rose's decision here. Let's face it, arguably the two biggest stars left playing are going 1 on 1 with seconds left and the game tied. I think the refs, barring something egregious, are going to let them play. And if anyone came to help LJ on Rose, they weren't going to foul, no on in their right mind would. Rose made a couple moves to see if he could get a look - he's not getting past Lebron, not at this stage in his career at least, in this situation. And single teaming Rose meant there was no easy/obvious pass for someone to get some space before the help on defense came. So he shot, and missed. It certainly wasn't the reason they lost them game, and it could've won it for them. While he's still developing as a shooter, I can't think of anyone else on the Bull's roster I'd rather have take that shot.
I agree with you that D. Rose should be the one taking the final shot...I still think he should have driven to the basket instead of taking a jumper...even with LJ on him...then you either miss the shot OR get fouled in the process. Nevertheless great game and great series...
If it was that easy he would be doing that the whole game and the series. Rose can't even penetrate the Heat's defense. The Heat is basically building a wall blocking the paint and forcing Rose to get rid of the ball.

Honestly, Rose number in the post season is absolutely terrible. His shooting is just a joke. I can understand the inconsistency against the Heat's defense. But the struggles is on a consistent basis. Starting against the Pacer and then the Hawks.
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      05-25-2011, 06:57 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by twinturbo335
Honestly, Rose number in the post season is absolutely terrible.
Wat

Rose's playoffs vs regular season

Stat-Playoffs-Regular
PPG - 27.3 - 25
RPG - 4.3 - 4.1
APG - 7.7 - 7.7
A/TO - 2.1 - 2.2

He's having a better post season than he did regular, in terms of offensive production.

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/.../chicago-bulls

Last edited by BTM; 05-25-2011 at 07:03 PM.
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      05-25-2011, 07:14 PM   #179
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Knew the Heat would take this. Made the prediction way before this series started.

Its not Lechoke anymore. He been showing up in this series and post season. It's Wade that's choking..
24 points a game choking for you?? with 1.3 blocks a game , and 1.6 steals a game? You sir are wrong my friend. Did he have a bad offensive game 4? YES , but he made up with the D. Look at wade's and lebrons post season numbers , they are very very similar.
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      05-25-2011, 08:58 PM   #180
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Wat

Rose's playoffs vs regular season

Stat-Playoffs-Regular
PPG - 27.3 - 25
RPG - 4.3 - 4.1
APG - 7.7 - 7.7
A/TO - 2.1 - 2.2

He's having a better post season than he did regular, in terms of offensive production.

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/.../chicago-bulls
He is shooting 40% this post season when he usually average 47% in his career. He is just shooting 36% against the Heat. Lets not forget about his 3 point stats. He is shooting 24% in he post season beyond the arc vs 33% in the regular season. Sure, he might have better numbers but it takes him 30 shots to score 30 points. That is not very efficient..

Good read from NBA.com
Quote:
The inefficient MVP
Derrick Rose's inability to break through the Miami defense was the story before Game 4 and it should continue to be the story in the aftermath, despite a few spectacular plays. Rose was inefficient once again, needing 27 shots to score 23 points, and turning the ball over seven times.
Rose got to the basket more than he had in any of the first three games, but was 3-for-17 from beyond five feet. He shot well from distance in Game 1, but has been progressively worse as the series has gone on.
Derrick Rose's shooting, conference finals

Included in the 3-for-17 was an awful 1-for-9 from 3-point range. Rose has now attempted at least nine threes in a game six times this season. Amazingly, three of those times have been in the playoffs, and he hasn't hit more than one of the nine in any of the three. He was 0-for-9 in Game 1 vs. Indiana, 1-for-9 in Game 4 vs. Indiana, and 1-for-9 in Game 4 against the Heat.
After the game, Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau noted Rose's lack of free throw attempts and said that his point guard "hasn't gotten the calls." Rose isn't getting to the free-throw line as much as he did in the regular season, but he's actually getting there more than he did against Atlanta in the conference semifinals.
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...s=iref:nbahpt1

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24 points a game choking for you?? with 1.3 blocks a game , and 1.6 steals a game? You sir are wrong my friend. Did he have a bad offensive game 4? YES , but he made up with the D. Look at wade's and lebrons post season numbers , they are very very similar.
I was referring to the conference final. How about 18 points per game against the Bulls. Shooting only 39% from the field. Making 0 3 pointers.. .Compared to Lebron- 45% FG%/ 33% 3p% and averaging 25 ppg? Even Chris Bosh is making Wade's stats look like a joke. 24ppg/ 63% from the field.

Good defense? I wouldn't say that. Wade was unable to guard Rose in the first few games that is why Lebron has to guard him now.
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      05-25-2011, 09:03 PM   #181
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Ok so his FG% is down compared to regular season...going by that metric, the Bulls should play Rasual Butler as much as possible...

I'm not saying I wish he wasn't playing better against the Heat, but it might help to actually look at the numbers to make sure they aren't the opposite of what you're saying. His efficiency is down, but his production is up. His efficiency is down because he's taking more shots than he should, because all too often he's trying to do it all on his own. Even with one of the most productive benches in the game, a single 6'2" PG isn't going to do it all by himself...
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      05-26-2011, 12:12 AM   #182
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oh hai heat
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      05-26-2011, 12:15 AM   #183
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      05-26-2011, 12:26 AM   #184
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see you in the finals again...
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      05-26-2011, 07:58 AM   #185
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      05-26-2011, 09:26 AM   #186
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Mavs > Heat. Chandler is such a beast on D and Dirk looks unstoppable. Mavs in 6.
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      05-26-2011, 09:35 AM   #187
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While I'd be really surprised (and elated) if it did happen, overcoming a 3-1 deficit has been done 8x before...so while Miami appears to be a shoe-in, it ain't over till it's over
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      05-26-2011, 03:07 PM   #188
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Ok so his FG% is down compared to regular season...going by that metric, the Bulls should play Rasual Butler as much as possible...

I'm not saying I wish he wasn't playing better against the Heat, but it might help to actually look at the numbers to make sure they aren't the opposite of what you're saying. His efficiency is down, but his production is up. His efficiency is down because he's taking more shots than he should, because all too often he's trying to do it all on his own. Even with one of the most productive benches in the game, a single 6'2" PG isn't going to do it all by himself...
Rasual Butler only made 1 shot. 1/1. The chance he will make another shot is highly unlikely. The next miss will drop his FG% by 50%. Not very appealing..

My point is, Rose isn't playing good basketball. You might think that he is actually being productive, but he is turning the ball over and attempting bad shots. Thus, leading to such a low FG %.

The Bulls have solid role players such as Noah, Taj, and Bogans. Maybe if they spend less time talking shit they might get more done.
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      05-26-2011, 04:15 PM   #189
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Rose's playoff TPG is 3.7, regular season 3.4. Also, thank you for proving my point relying on FG% to show how a player is playing - it's very incomplete, and as a rate, relies largely on sample size. Either way, Rose's FG% has only dipped about 5% since the regular season, but he is scoring 2pts more per game. What would you rather have, at the end of NBA game, more points, or higher FG%? The winner isn't the one with the best FG%

I don't think he's being productive, I know he's being productive. Productivity is an aggregate concept, supported by mean counting stats. By talking FG%, a rate stat, you mean to say he's playing less efficiently. Which is true. However, while greater efficiency is over all good, lower efficiency does not always lead to diminished production, as the stats I've posted support. Further evidenced by the fact that given the sample size you've delineated (regular vs. post season) Rasual Butler is the most efficient player on the Bulls, and also very unproductive.

Last edited by BTM; 05-26-2011 at 04:21 PM.
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      05-26-2011, 09:03 PM   #190
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Rose's playoff TPG is 3.7, regular season 3.4. Also, thank you for proving my point relying on FG% to show how a player is playing - it's very incomplete, and as a rate, relies largely on sample size. Either way, Rose's FG% has only dipped about 5% since the regular season, but he is scoring 2pts more per game. What would you rather have, at the end of NBA game, more points, or higher FG%? The winner isn't the one with the best FG%

I don't think he's being productive, I know he's being productive. Productivity is an aggregate concept, supported by mean counting stats. By talking FG%, a rate stat, you mean to say he's playing less efficiently. Which is true. However, while greater efficiency is over all good, lower efficiency does not always lead to diminished production, as the stats I've posted support. Further evidenced by the fact that given the sample size you've delineated (regular vs. post season) Rasual Butler is the most efficient player on the Bulls, and also very unproductive.
He has 3.7 turn over per game but 7 turnovers in game 4 in the most important game of the series.

There is no problem with the sample size we are analyzing. We aren't talking about 1 field goal attempt like you were referring to Butler. We are analyzing a sample of greater than 1000 shot attempts. He is shooting 5% lower than his season average. But to put this into perspective, he is shooting 36% against the Heat and 37% against the Pacers compared to his 09-10 playoff average of 45% and 08-09 playoff average of 49% (All with greater than 1000 shot attempts).

Like I said before, who cares if they score more points. You can take 30 shot attempts to score 30 points vs 15 shot attempts to score 30 points. To consistently take 30 shot attempt to score 30 points is just bad basketball.

Neither more points or better field goal % will win the game. There are other factors to consider. But in the conference final, Rose is struggling in PPG + field goal %. He only averages 23PPG against the Heat vs 30PPG against the Hawks and 27PPG against the Pacers.
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      05-26-2011, 09:19 PM   #191
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      05-26-2011, 10:07 PM   #192
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      05-26-2011, 10:10 PM   #193
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      05-26-2011, 10:11 PM   #194
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      05-26-2011, 10:13 PM   #195
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      05-26-2011, 10:13 PM   #196
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      05-26-2011, 10:14 PM   #197
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      05-26-2011, 10:15 PM   #198
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