BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
GT Haus
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-03-2011, 08:31 PM   #45
KTM505SX
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011.5 E92 M3 6MT ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Stevenson Ranch,CA

Posts: 523
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpari09 View Post
But in all seriousness, Pcars feel like they were developed by a smaller company with lower intelligent engineers hence the superior feel of bmw cars in general. Who the hell puts an engine where the trunk is suppose to be?

Lollll

Come on guys lets have some fun!
KTM505SX is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-03-2011, 08:33 PM   #46
KTM505SX
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011.5 E92 M3 6MT ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Stevenson Ranch,CA

Posts: 523
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
And that number is absolutely incomparable to the 8:05 time since it was a different driver. Horst is a talented driver but Roehrl is in a different league. With the same driver under the same conditions the E92 M3 will best the 08 Carrera on the Ring.
All very valid points that get usually overlooked while comparing the two.
KTM505SX is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-03-2011, 09:16 PM   #47
alms211
Banned
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MD

Posts: 746
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider View Post
There isn't 6 seconds between those drivers. Stop kidding yourself. Besides, that 997S was without Sport Chrono but did have PASM. Sport Chrono makes an appreciable power difference across the rev range, although peak is the same. But before we split hairs all day, the bottom line is the M3 would be faster on the straights whereas the 997S will be quicker cornering and under braking, and coming out of corners. Keep in mind also this car was around when BMW still had 2 model years of production remaining on the E46 M3. BTW, the power package '08 997S .1 posted a 7:50, same as the '09 997S .2. Just shows what 30 more hp will do. A '05~'08 997S + IDP plenum ($900) = 383 hp. What holds back the .1 is the intake efficiency. Easily remedied.
You people with these 'Ring times are just laughable. Do you really think that anybody on these forums (save for perhaps a Leh Keen) is really going to drive a car to the extent they can tell a 6 second difference on a 13 mile course? Hell, I'd bet 90+% of the people on these forums that have "performance" cars NEVER see a track. Whats the big damn deal of 6 seconds over an 8 minute/13 mile span of road? Do you really think ANYBODY here arguing these points can "make that much of a difference"? It really is laughable because it all comes down to magazine racing.

I have a great idea......buy and drive what the hell you like and feels good to YOU and respect what others like. I really couldn't care less what lap times my car gets because 1) I'll only be in a position to where I can test its limits about 2-3 times per year; 2) It is, after all, a street car and 3) no matter how good I may think I am with it, there is always someone that is better with less car.
alms211 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-03-2011, 11:48 PM   #48
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,019
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
You people with these 'Ring times are just laughable. Do you really think that anybody on these forums (save for perhaps a Leh Keen) is really going to drive a car to the extent they can tell a 6 second difference on a 13 mile course? Hell, I'd bet 90+% of the people on these forums that have "performance" cars NEVER see a track. Whats the big damn deal of 6 seconds over an 8 minute/13 mile span of road? Do you really think ANYBODY here arguing these points can "make that much of a difference"? It really is laughable because it all comes down to magazine racing.
These is absolutely no problem debating CARS vs. debating DRIVERS (or even some combination thereof). They are uncoupled debates and the discussion here is about the cars themselves. Even if I can't get my car around the Ring in under 10 minutes doesn't mean I can't be quite keenly interested in how fast Walter, Sabine or Horst or some other very good driver might be able to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider View Post
There isn't 6 seconds between those drivers. Stop kidding yourself.
These two drivers have shown 5 seconds of differnce for the 997 Turbo and as little as 0-1 seconds of difference for other P cars. Bottom line still is that with different drivers on different days you CAN NOT make the comparison. Even with identical drivers on different days you will probably have 5 seconds of variation due to wind, temperature and tire condition. You can not compare apples to oranges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider View Post
Besides, that 997S was without Sport Chrono but did have PASM. Sport Chrono makes an appreciable power difference across the rev range, although peak is the same. But before we split hairs all day, the bottom line is the M3 would be faster on the straights whereas the 997S will be quicker cornering and under braking, and coming out of corners. Keep in mind also this car was around when BMW still had 2 model years of production remaining on the E46 M3. BTW, the power package '08 997S .1 posted a 7:50, same as the '09 997S .2. Just shows what 30 more hp will do. A '05~'08 997S + IDP plenum ($900) = 383 hp. What holds back the .1 is the intake efficiency. Easily remedied.
Wow talk about splitting hairs. Let's talk about a tuned M3 as well just to throw that into the mix . The bottom line is that the E92 M3 has a substantially better power to weight ratio than the 08 997 and under an apples to apples comparison on most fast tracks such as the N'Ring it WILL be faster. The rest of your words above are nothing more than a distraction.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 12:40 AM   #49
MVF4Rrider
PCA, BMWCCA
 
MVF4Rrider's Avatar
 
Drives: 997S, MV Agusta F4, E46 M3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Las Vegas NV

Posts: 2,060
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Bottom line still is that with different drivers on different days you CAN NOT make the comparison. Even with identical drivers on different days you will probably have 5 seconds of variation due to wind, temperature and tire condition. You can not compare apples to oranges.
No shit. I lived there for 5 years. The Eifel region's climate is anything but consistent. I remember days in June which never made it to 50 degrees. But all we have to go by is what the track counts as an official time. I don't make the rules so don't shoot the messenger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Let's talk about a tuned M3 as well just to throw that into the mix . The bottom line is that the E92 M3 has a substantially better power to weight ratio than the 08 997 and under an apples to apples comparison on most fast tracks such as the N'Ring it WILL be faster. The rest of your words above are nothing more than a distraction.
I'm not talking about a tuned 997S when I mention the plenum. It's just a piece of pipe shaped in a Y instead of a T. Damn Porsche for being cheap bastards. Try not to cry over all this. You're way too hyped up. No one is dissing the M3. i acknowledged its power did I not? Why does it upset you to know a 355 hp 997 can rival a 414 hp M3? One thing for sure, neither car would pass the other on the ring. Whichever started in front would end that way. (your favorite emoticon)
__________________
'08 Carrera S 6MT Guards Red/Black ext leather, Carbon fiber pkg, sport exh, sport chrono +, PASM, Nav, Bose, 19" forged turbos, red tranny tunnel
'07 MV Agusta F4 1000 R 1+1, Corse Red/Silver, RG3 race pipes and factory race ECU
MVF4Rrider is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 01:12 AM   #50
speed21
New Member
 
speed21's Avatar
 
Drives: P/BM
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: H&H.

Posts: 18
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpari09 View Post
It's really sad that you can't express your opinions without being attacked. There are lots of people who have switched From 911 cars into m3's and couldn't be happier. Same could be said the other way around. Yes, the rear engine drive of the 911 is very thrilling and I experienced the thrill first hand when the car started to twitch through a long sweeper, it got my adrenaline pumping but I like how the m3 stays flat through the same turn. Just cuz I like the handling better on an m3, doesn't mean I should get attacked for it. Speed21, go back into whatever hole u came from.
Now if thats no being nasty i dont know what is. Expressing "an opinion" that you should consider learning how to drive these cars properly is not "attacking". Its a valid suggestion given your posts. Those that have been schooled will know exactly just how superior the 911 is to the M3 and how much faster it is around a circuit or similar road environment.....canyons etc etc. The M3 is a great car but its no 911. And saying you intend moving into a 911? C'mon...who are you kidding. Porsche isnt moving the 911 engine nor are changing any of the things you ridicule. Anyway once you get schooled you will know exactly what i mean .
speed21 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 03:29 AM   #51
z00m
Second Lieutenant
 
z00m's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 m3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lithuania,Vilnius

Posts: 221
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenzm3edan View Post
well I know that the 2008 Carrera S will beat an 08 M3, but what about the 06/07 Carrera S vs the M3 staight line.
Raced 997.1S many times and m3 always taking the edge at high speeds. In the city won't feel the difference. Both MT, and raced with to different Porsches. 997.2s with PDK would take m3 MT or DCT,no metter
z00m is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 05:38 AM   #52
alms211
Banned
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MD

Posts: 746
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
These is absolutely no problem debating CARS vs. debating DRIVERS (or even some combination thereof). They are uncoupled debates and the discussion here is about the cars themselves. Even if I can't get my car around the Ring in under 10 minutes doesn't mean I can't be quite keenly interested in how fast Walter, Sabine or Horst or some other very good driver might be able to do it.



These two drivers have shown 5 seconds of differnce for the 997 Turbo and as little as 0-1 seconds of difference for other P cars. Bottom line still is that with different drivers on different days you CAN NOT make the comparison. Even with identical drivers on different days you will probably have 5 seconds of variation due to wind, temperature and tire condition. You can not compare apples to oranges.



Wow talk about splitting hairs. Let's talk about a tuned M3 as well just to throw that into the mix . The bottom line is that the E92 M3 has a substantially better power to weight ratio than the 08 997 and under an apples to apples comparison on most fast tracks such as the N'Ring it WILL be faster. The rest of your words above are nothing more than a distraction.

No, I certainly agree that there is nothing wrong with being interested in how quickly a professional can drive a specific car around a track but there is absolutely no purpose in debating it ad nauseum or making it a deciding factor in one's car buying decision. At that point, it is merely a topic of bragging rights.
alms211 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 06:01 AM   #53
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

Posts: 1,942
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider View Post
There isn't 6 seconds between those drivers. Stop kidding yourself. Besides, that 997S was without Sport Chrono but did have PASM. Sport Chrono makes an appreciable power difference across the rev range, although peak is the same. But before we split hairs all day, the bottom line is the M3 would be faster on the straights whereas the 997S will be quicker cornering and under braking, and coming out of corners. Keep in mind also this car was around when BMW still had 2 model years of production remaining on the E46 M3. BTW, the power package '08 997S .1 posted a 7:50, same as the '09 997S .2. Just shows what 30 more hp will do. A '05~'08 997S + IDP plenum ($900) = 383 hp. What holds back the .1 is the intake efficiency. Easily remedied.
As much as I am a Porsche fan, I do have to say that you are absolutely wrong about Sport Chrono. SC only adds power to the 911 turbo as it increases boost briefly in the mid-range. Sport Chrono in a 997(S) only front loads throttle input and does not add any power. At full throttle the power output is the same. You only have to press the accelerator more to get the same power as a SC car . I love SC but it doesn't make a 6MT 911 any faster. It will make a PDK 911 faster, however, not from a power increase but from more aggressive shifting.

Last edited by devo; 04-04-2011 at 06:10 AM.
devo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 06:06 AM   #54
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

Posts: 1,942
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
These is absolutely no problem debating CARS vs. debating DRIVERS (or even some combination thereof). They are uncoupled debates and the discussion here is about the cars themselves. Even if I can't get my car around the Ring in under 10 minutes doesn't mean I can't be quite keenly interested in how fast Walter, Sabine or Horst or some other very good driver might be able to do it.



These two drivers have shown 5 seconds of differnce for the 997 Turbo and as little as 0-1 seconds of difference for other P cars. Bottom line still is that with different drivers on different days you CAN NOT make the comparison. Even with identical drivers on different days you will probably have 5 seconds of variation due to wind, temperature and tire condition. You can not compare apples to oranges.



Wow talk about splitting hairs. Let's talk about a tuned M3 as well just to throw that into the mix . The bottom line is that the E92 M3 has a substantially better power to weight ratio than the 08 997 and under an apples to apples comparison on most fast tracks such as the N'Ring it WILL be faster. The rest of your words above are nothing more than a distraction.
The E92 M3 may have a slightly better power to weight ratio (if any) than a 997.1S, however it is certainly not "substantial". Depending on the weight you are using (3704/3131 Manufacturer's claims, respectively) they're each at 8.94/8.81 give/take. I realize that there may be slightly different weights in the real world but the delta shouldn't change that much.

FTR, I used 3131 from an internet source but thought the S weighed in at 3175 which would return a 8.94 even. Shave another 100 lbs off the M because some believe it weighs less and the spread is still very close.

Last edited by devo; 04-04-2011 at 07:51 AM.
devo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 07:04 AM   #55
speed21
New Member
 
speed21's Avatar
 
Drives: P/BM
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: H&H.

Posts: 18
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpari09 View Post
Quote:
The m3 is a car that just works the moment u sit in it in almost every driving condition be it track or street.
The M does but it doesn't when you put the drive up against an 11 especially if we are talking manuals. The shift of the P is much better, the pedal weights and spacing are much better, ergonomics are better, the car just communicates better whether driving it fast or slow....more connected.

Quote:
It instills the kind of confidence that few other cars can match. It's not skiddish, twitchy or nervous when your blasting through your favorite back road and though I absolutely love the way a 997 looks, I am not a big fan of it's nervous twitchy nature and lawnmower like engine (however the 's' sounds a lot better than the standard car).
Im not sure how the 911 you drove was set up. Maybe the pressures were out or the alignment crap. I also don't get what you say on the engine note. That lawn mower motor screams all the way into the red....especially with an exhaust. The M3 is way too muted even into that addictive high redline. Pity really. Plus it lacks low down grunt.

Quote:
Like i said in my previous posts, I've been driving m3s and bmws for quite sometime and I just feel that it's time for a change. I don't like Mercedes or audis so the next step would be a beautiful highly respected 911 car. I know theres a steep learning curve that goes along with owning a 911 and I know that I will miss the drive of the m3 but life goes on with new experiences and sacrifices.
Actually i think you will be surprised. You wont miss the M3 at all....maybe the extra practicality of the boot and better back seat but how often do you use that? Unless the M3 is a 4 door you need a second car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z00m View Post
Raced 997.1S many times and m3 always taking the edge at high speeds. In the city won't feel the difference. Both MT, and raced with to different Porsches. 997.2s with PDK would take m3 MT or DCT,no metter
Agree the M3 pulls away from a .1 S up top. Thats the extra KW's kicking in. But in day to day there is that lack of low down torque when you need it sometimes. The .2 is a different story though....more evenly matched in top end.
speed21 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 08:03 AM   #56
MVF4Rrider
PCA, BMWCCA
 
MVF4Rrider's Avatar
 
Drives: 997S, MV Agusta F4, E46 M3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Las Vegas NV

Posts: 2,060
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpari09 View Post
Rider, you got a great point. The fact that a 355hp 997 can keep up with a 414hp m3 is quite impressive. But can u guess what's even more impressive? It's little brother cayman s with 320hp being able to embarrass porsches flagship car on the track. Wouldn't u agree?
It didn't beat it around Nurburgring. 7:59 (Carrera S) vs. 8:04 and the Cayman S had ceramic brakes, and both cars were driven by the same driver (hopefully Swamp won't freak out here). So where did it beat it, Top Gear track? Why would you use the word embarrass anyway? Can you guys not comment without trying to take jabs? I don't own Porsche. They decide what they want from their designs. But I'm quite happy to own a 997S versus a Cayman S. My next car will be the Carrera GTS.
__________________
'08 Carrera S 6MT Guards Red/Black ext leather, Carbon fiber pkg, sport exh, sport chrono +, PASM, Nav, Bose, 19" forged turbos, red tranny tunnel
'07 MV Agusta F4 1000 R 1+1, Corse Red/Silver, RG3 race pipes and factory race ECU
MVF4Rrider is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 10:00 AM   #57
Nine
Banned
 
Drives: Not ZCP, FML.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DC, Miami, NYC

Posts: 1,925
iTrader: (2)

Threads like this blow my mind, rather than talk about real world rewards the debate is based on seconds established by a race car driver.

If you want to buy and build a full on race car, you probably should not buy an M3.

Also, the cayman S is very tight on the inside, not a whole lot of breathing room - people who have only a Cayman S and DD it are crazy in my mind. Having DD'd an S2000I know about tight spaces but for some reason the Cayman S feels tighter.

The Carrera is and always will be the perfect size and shape for the traditional sports car, it's designed for performance and balance.

The M3 is and always will be the best of both worlds, comfort and sports. If BMW wanted to go after the Carrera or the Cayman it would NOT be with an M3.

The fact of the matter is most of us will spend 90% of the time commuting or driving on public roads in our cars. If you are looking for a race car, you're not looking at stock vs. stock. If you're going to compare a Carrera S to an M3, it should be more about the real world benefits rather than a hair of a second on some track.
Nine is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 12:21 PM   #58
M3Fool
Loves FFDP
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 SOLD 11 5.0 'Stang
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Germany

Posts: 783
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
Threads like this blow my mind, rather than talk about real world rewards the debate is based on seconds established by a race car driver.

If you want to buy and build a full on race car, you probably should not buy an M3.

Also, the cayman S is very tight on the inside, not a whole lot of breathing room - people who have only a Cayman S and DD it are crazy in my mind. Having DD'd an S2000I know about tight spaces but for some reason the Cayman S feels tighter.

The Carrera is and always will be the perfect size and shape for the traditional sports car, it's designed for performance and balance.

The M3 is and always will be the best of both worlds, comfort and sports. If BMW wanted to go after the Carrera or the Cayman it would NOT be with an M3.

The fact of the matter is most of us will spend 99.9% of the time commuting or driving on public roads in our cars. If you are looking for a race car, you're not looking at stock vs. stock. If you're going to compare a Carrera S to an M3, it should be more about the real world benefits rather than a hair of a second on some track.
Corrected
__________________
Glory may be fleeting, but mediocrity ensures anonymity...
M3Fool is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 05:18 PM   #59
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,019
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider View Post
No shit. I lived there for 5 years. The Eifel region's climate is anything but consistent. I remember days in June which never made it to 50 degrees. But all we have to go by is what the track counts as an official time. I don't make the rules so don't shoot the messenger.
Using "official" (i.e. officially) apples to oranges test results benefits nothing/no one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider View Post
Try not to cry over all this. You're way too hyped up. No one is dissing the M3. i acknowledged its power did I not? Why does it upset you to know a 355 hp 997 can rival a 414 hp M3? One thing for sure, neither car would pass the other on the ring. Whichever started in front would end that way. (your favorite emoticon)
There is not one speck of crying/hype/sensitivity here on my behalf.

Further there is absolutely nothing surprising to me about a lighter car with less hp roughly matching another. Basic physics. There is also nothing surprising about Porsche having sublime and effective handling.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 05:19 PM   #60
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,019
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
No, I certainly agree that there is nothing wrong with being interested in how quickly a professional can drive a specific car around a track but there is absolutely no purpose in debating it ad nauseum or making it a deciding factor in one's car buying decision. At that point, it is merely a topic of bragging rights.
Cool, were on the same page.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 05:24 PM   #61
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,019
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
The E92 M3 may have a slightly better power to weight ratio (if any) than a 997.1S, however it is certainly not "substantial". Depending on the weight you are using (3704/3131 Manufacturer's claims, respectively) they're each at 8.94/8.81 give/take. I realize that there may be slightly different weights in the real world but the delta shouldn't change that much.

FTR, I used 3131 from an internet source but thought the S weighed in at 3175 which would return a 8.94 even. Shave another 100 lbs off the M because some believe it weighs less and the spread is still very close.
I think the difference is larger. Find truly apples to apples curb weights for the two cars. Keep in mind the curb weight includes driver. IIRC Porsche did (or does) use dry weights. That makes a world of real world difference. Now that being said 3700 with driver 100% fuel, all options and a few kg of "luggage" weight (which is all in the spec) is actually very reasonable for the E92 M3. It sounds heavy but its dry weight also sounds refreshingly light.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 10:34 PM   #62
DiscoZ
Second Lieutenant
 
DiscoZ's Avatar
 
Drives: C63 AMG PP, F25 X3
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: T.Dot

Posts: 273
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
The E92 M3 may have a slightly better power to weight ratio (if any) than a 997.1S, however it is certainly not "substantial". Depending on the weight you are using (3704/3131 Manufacturer's claims, respectively) they're each at 8.94/8.81 give/take. I realize that there may be slightly different weights in the real world but the delta shouldn't change that much.

FTR, I used 3131 from an internet source but thought the S weighed in at 3175 which would return a 8.94 even. Shave another 100 lbs off the M because some believe it weighs less and the spread is still very close.
You do realise that BMW and Porsche use different measures for kerb weight and thus you have to normalise the weight to get it apples to apples? Porsche's standard needs weight added to it, or BMW's needs weight taken off.
__________________
Current: 2012 C63 AMG PP | 2012 F25 X3
Past: 2008 E92 M3 | 2009 E90 335i | 2007 Z4MC | 2002 GTI 1.8T | 2000 Celica GT-S | 1999 328i | 1990 Corrado G60
DiscoZ is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2011, 10:50 PM   #63
Dave07997S
Colonel
 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3 ZCP Coupe
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Playa del Rey, CA

Posts: 2,404
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
The E92 M3 may have a slightly better power to weight ratio (if any) than a 997.1S, however it is certainly not "substantial". Depending on the weight you are using (3704/3131 Manufacturer's claims, respectively) they're each at 8.94/8.81 give/take. I realize that there may be slightly different weights in the real world but the delta shouldn't change that much.

FTR, I used 3131 from an internet source but thought the S weighed in at 3175 which would return a 8.94 even. Shave another 100 lbs off the M because some believe it weighs less and the spread is still very close.
Devo my 07 997S with manual sport seats, Nav and Bose weighed in at 3244lbs and this was with a lighter exhaust system, but not that much lighter. I always wondered how Porsche measured thier cars weight. My E92 M3 pretty loaded even with the moonroof came in right at 3625bs. This is a full tank for both cars.

This would give me a 9.1lbs/hp for the 997S while the M3 would be right at 8.9lbs/hp. Not a great amount of difference, but the advantage would be for the M3. What is amazing that even with the slight deficit for the 997 the cars from the dig would be pretty darn even if driven properly. The 997 to get the best times mean you would have to drive it to the point where it would be axle hopping like mad, something you wouldn't want to do on a regular basis. While the M3 may spin, but I get very little axle hop with the M3 while the 997S hopped like mad to the point I thought the engine would drop out of its subframe.

Dave
__________________
2013 M3 Coupe-MR/BLK ZCP, ACM test pipes, BPM Stg2 dev. tune and Megan catback, AFE Stg2. with C/F elbow
Previous rides: 2011 M3 Coupe-MR/Blk
2007 Porsche 997C2S Speed Yellow/Blk sport seats
2004 BMW M3 Imola/Blk
Dave07997S is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-05-2011, 09:35 AM   #64
devo
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: .2GT3/335Cpe/991 GT3 coming
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: thinking about cars, girls and money, not necessarily in that order.

Posts: 1,942
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
Devo my 07 997S with manual sport seats, Nav and Bose weighed in at 3244lbs and this was with a lighter exhaust system, but not that much lighter. I always wondered how Porsche measured thier cars weight. My E92 M3 pretty loaded even with the moonroof came in right at 3625bs. This is a full tank for both cars.

This would give me a 9.1lbs/hp for the 997S while the M3 would be right at 8.9lbs/hp. Not a great amount of difference, but the advantage would be for the M3. What is amazing that even with the slight deficit for the 997 the cars from the dig would be pretty darn even if driven properly. The 997 to get the best times mean you would have to drive it to the point where it would be axle hopping like mad, something you wouldn't want to do on a regular basis. While the M3 may spin, but I get very little axle hop with the M3 while the 997S hopped like mad to the point I thought the engine would drop out of its subframe.

Dave
That's where the dynamic engine mounts come in very nicely. No axle hop with the .2 gt3.

I believe that a 997.1S weighed in at 3175 according to Porsche so your weight with Nav and heavy Bose is not that far off; maybe a bit optimistic according to Porsche but agin not too far off.

I realize that the M is EU weight. Although the Porsche may not be I don't think it is dry. Anyway we agree on the general numbers, 8.9 vs. 9.1 is not that much of a difference and does favor the M.
devo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-06-2011, 10:11 AM   #65
crackberry
Major
 
crackberry's Avatar
 
Drives: Porsche Carrera GTS (997.2)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: southern california

Posts: 1,003
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Fool View Post
Nope.... I sure don't. The point of the post was to point out how utterly redundant this entire thread is," Oooo my Porsche is faster than your M3!" and vice versa......... stupid,

2 completely different cars that serve 2 completely different masters, for 2 completely different purposes.

Who really cares? I get thumbs ups from Porsche drivers, just the same as they get thumbs up from me. Both are awesome autobiles in their own rights.
i disagree. i think its important to hear from both sides. there are those who have enough money who can afford both and a hard time picking which car to purchase. threads like these help immensely, at least it does for me.
crackberry is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-06-2011, 01:41 PM   #66
KTM505SX
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011.5 E92 M3 6MT ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Stevenson Ranch,CA

Posts: 523
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider View Post
I bought it when I lived in Germany. You see as many MVs as Japanese bikes there. There were no less than 5 MV dealers within 100Ks of my house. The only Japanese dealer I knew of was in Frankfurt, about 1 hour away. Huge Dainese store and Ducati dealer there also. Everything but MV it seemed.

Don't let what happens in America make you blind to the rest of the world. MV is a very serious bike. It's an evolution like Ducati. And many people race them in Europe, especially Italy. If the Aprilia was out when I was shopping, it's the bike I'd have. But I enjoy my MV. It's quite different from most inline 4s in terms of sound and power delivery. I don't ride around thinking it's the king of the road. But it's damn powerful.
Im well aware of MV's strong and weak points. Not just going by what happens in America lol. They are almost never raced around the world. No serious bike team picks MV to race. When they do they are not hard to dismantle. It's an evolution but a well setup gsxr1k will distroy it in the corners. And on a bike races are won in the corners. Power is not end all be all when on a bike.
KTM505SX is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:12 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST