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      04-02-2011, 08:33 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Brosef View Post
I'm a huge fan of 911's and Porsche in general. never understood why they were so highly respected until the first time I rode in one, and I've been in love with them ever since. they can be used and abused day in and day out and will still last 200k+ miles easily. they're also great in the winter with the rear engine rear drive layout. however, I can't get past the fact that the M3 is nipping at the heels of the 911 in performance. not so much because the M3 costs a lot less, but because the M3 has a much more spacious interior and trunk.

no question about it, the M3 is a FAR better value. but that's not to say there's no reason for anyone to get a 911 - in fact, I'd say quite the opposite. the 911 has far more curb appeal due to its long, rich history and racing pedigree and the driving experience in a 911 is irreplaceable. you have to respect the stubborn Porsche engineers for spending 40+ years refining the 911. whereas most cars have a revolution with each subsequent model (i.e. look at the M3 - went from an I4 to an I6 to a bigger I6 to a V8), the 911 has had a continous evolution and just keeps getting better.
A Timex is a better value than a Rolex, but I'm not buying the Timex.
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      04-02-2011, 09:16 PM   #24
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Thank you all for your responce, I was torn between an 06 Carrera and an 08 M3. I purchased the M3 in the end not because it's more practicle as a daily driver, that did not matter as I own three other vehicles. I felt the Porsche was still over priced for it's age. I have driven many Porsches and don't get me wrong they are great cars that in my openion are more sporty than the M3. My cousin owns an 02 turbo and it is very fast.

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      04-03-2011, 02:16 AM   #25
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A Timex is a better value than a Rolex, but I'm not buying the Timex.
Huge difference between the two,Put the Rolex next to a Breitling Navitimer and you have fair comparo..'till then the M3 is not far off the 911s in performance numbers at a more competitive price
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      04-03-2011, 05:20 AM   #26
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Typically '08s are 355 hp and still quicker than the M3 around Nurburgring.
I have not seen comparable times, everyone test the S models which are faster on most tracks. Do you have a number for the Porsche? If it is not from Sportauto it won't be 100% comparable. The other tracks on fastestslaps.com show the M3 faster on some and the Porsche faster on others. It is more or less down to how fast of a track it is since the M3 is significantly faster in a straight line.
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      04-03-2011, 06:28 AM   #27
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Who said anything about a 996? Ultimately if there weren't so many people on this forum saying such retarded things, people like me would stay away. You guys do a terrible job policing your own. There's much harmony on the Porsche forums (where I spend more time). Amazing amount of hate on this forum (mainly between E92 M3 owners). It's shameful.
+1 precisely!!

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Please inform us on how a pdk is any better than a dct in a unbiased way.
Your kidding right? Remove all bias here. Have you ever read a review thats said otherwise?

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I have had a lot if seat time in both pdk equipped and manual 997s and standard 997 cars. Taking my m3 through the same canyon I took the 997 and feeling utter confidence and stability and the beautiful sound of the v8 closed the deal. Maybe with the next generation carrera,they will fix some of the handling flaws, by moving the engine more towards the middle like the cayman. My next move will be Porsche and I will look forward to hearing more about the new generation 911. Let's hope it will be somethig truly special.
Wow. Just when i thought i'd heard it all. After reading crap like this I could lurk no longer. Btw have you ever considered taking a driving school? You may actually learn how to drive your m3 as well. An M3 a better handler than a C2S.

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I must admit I admire your passion for Porsche, but don't be so quick to dismiss the m3 for it's own capabilities and heritage. It's a legend in it's own right and is renowned the world over as being one of the most sought after cars. I hardly think that my decision to drop the Porsche in favor of the m3 was an unwise choice, cost aside. The m3 is a car that the term "settling for" does NOT apply to. What is it with u? Does it piss u off that some people really believe that an m3 can drive better than a Porsche? I understand the heritage and prestige behind the porsche brand and I'm one to admit respect Porsche as a top notch brand, I just happen to like the drive of a properly balanced car. I enjoy the front engine rear drive layout with 50/50 weight distribution and a high revving motor. I also believe that the m3s engine is more responsive and connected, like it's an extension of my senses. There was no "settling for an m3" like I said before, I've had extensive time in both standard 997's and 997s, and have pushed them as far as I would like to push any car. Still I came out feeling like the m3 is the superior drive, IMO. Don't let that damage ur ego or pride as a Porsche owner. I'm sure many other people feel the same as I do. Like I said before, maybe in the future Porsche will make the next generation 911 more to my liking but until that day, I have no regrets and feel that I bought the better car.
OMG!

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      04-03-2011, 08:14 AM   #28
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Huge difference between the two,Put the Rolex next to a Breitling Navitimer and you have fair comparo..'till then the M3 is not far off the 911s in performance numbers at a more competitive price
With that said a Ford isn't far of the M3's pace. Value relative to these cars is subjective. There is no wrong choice here.
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      04-03-2011, 08:17 AM   #29
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I have not seen comparable times, everyone test the S models which are faster on most tracks. Do you have a number for the Porsche? If it is not from Sportauto it won't be 100% comparable. The other tracks on fastestslaps.com show the M3 faster on some and the Porsche faster on others. It is more or less down to how fast of a track it is since the M3 is significantly faster in a straight line.
Official posted time is 7:59; Walter Roehrl, WHEELS, '06

The '08 facelift (381 hp) posted a 7:50. Basically the 997S has a lot of performance left on the table. Small inexpensive mods can make for big power changes.
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      04-03-2011, 08:21 AM   #30
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Thank you all for your responce, I was torn between an 06 Carrera and an 08 M3. I purchased the M3 in the end not because it's more practicle as a daily driver, that did not matter as I own three other vehicles. I felt the Porsche was still over priced for it's age. I have driven many Porsches and don't get me wrong they are great cars that in my openion are more sporty than the M3. My cousin owns an 02 turbo and it is very fast.
Well at least you spelled Carrera correctly...
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      04-03-2011, 09:01 AM   #31
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I must admit I admire your passion for Porsche, but don't be so quick to dismiss the m3 for it's own capabilities and heritage. It's a legend in it's own right and is renowned the world over as being one of the most sought after cars. I hardly think that my decision to drop the Porsche in favor of the m3 was an unwise choice, cost aside. The m3 is a car that the term "settling for" does NOT apply to. What is it with u? Does it piss u off that some people really believe that an m3 can drive better than a Porsche? I understand the heritage and prestige behind the porsche brand and I'm one to admit respect Porsche as a top notch brand, I just happen to like the drive of a properly balanced car. I enjoy the front engine rear drive layout with 50/50 weight distribution and a high revving motor. I also believe that the m3s engine is more responsive and connected, like it's an extension of my senses. There was no "settling for an m3" like I said before, I've had extensive time in both standard 997's and 997s, and have pushed them as far as I would like to push any car. Still I came out feeling like the m3 is the superior drive, IMO. Don't let that damage ur ego or pride as a Porsche owner. I'm sure many other people feel the same as I do. Like I said before, maybe in the future Porsche will make the next generation 911 more to my liking but until that day, I have no regrets and feel that I bought the better car.
Well I lived in Germany from 2004 to 2009 and regularly whipped M3s in my Z4M Coupe on curvy B roads and I don't put a lot of stock in the opinion of an American driver in America who speaks of quick driving. 99% of American M3 owners have barely even touched upon the true performance capability of the car (of any car really). Americans are too interested in spinning wheels around slow corners than actually being smooth and quick and precise. I have many miles in a E92 M3 in Germany and while it's a great car, it's too soft for me for a thrilling weekend car. Really I don't get in to hair splitting on which car is quickest. When I shopped for my 997 I didn't even once check its times vs. other cars. It could be seconds slower around the ring than the M3 and it wouldn't matter in the least to me. I like cars with character and soul, and ones which provide the right feel and sounds. Outside of Porsche and Ferrari, there's nothing being produced today which I find interesting in the least. I had a '08 M3 on order until I drove it on my favorite B roads in Germany. That safe 50/50 weight distribution just wasn't very thrilling. And the rather clunky 6MT sealed the deal. So I changed my order for the Z4M Coupe as it was far more driver focused and yes, I was well aware it was slower. But the car was much more fun to drive (what I care about). Last year I sacrificed it for the 997S and haven't looked back. If I were to ever pick up a bargain E9X M3 in the future as replacement daily driver, it would be hard choice between the potential failure expense of the M-DCT and the numb 6MT.

Interestingly here in Vegas we have a Cars and Coffee event every Saturday and not once have I ever seen a E9X M3 there. BMWs stay away for the most part as they're largely ignored anyway. Once a month the local BMWCCA chapter has a breakfast meet across the street from the Saturday Cars and Coffee event and rarely will any BMW owner attend both. I'm glad so many on here are thrilled with their cars. But ultimately BMW made the same mistake with the E9X M3 in which Porsche did with the 996--made it too soft and too luxurious.
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      04-03-2011, 09:37 AM   #32
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Get rid of that 325 porsche
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      04-03-2011, 11:01 AM   #33
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im a lil late to the party (been mia recently) but i got my popcorn
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      04-03-2011, 03:10 PM   #34
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With that said a Ford isn't far of the M3's pace. Value relative to these cars is subjective. There is no wrong choice here.
Yes,at the same time were comparing two cars made in Germany with similar build quality and material superiority vs. the American made Mustang..

So your original post referencing the Timex vs Rolex argument does not hold much water.You can put the Ford next to the Porsche and use it asTimex vs Rolex argument but not the M3
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      04-03-2011, 03:19 PM   #35
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Well I lived in Germany from 2004 to 2009 and regularly whipped M3s in my Z4M Coupe on curvy B roads and I don't put a lot of stock in the opinion of an American driver in America who speaks of quick driving. 99% of American M3 owners have barely even touched upon the true performance capability of the car (of any car really). Americans are too interested in spinning wheels around slow corners than actually being smooth and quick and precise. I have many miles in a E92 M3 in Germany and while it's a great car, it's too soft for me for a thrilling weekend car. Really I don't get in to hair splitting on which car is quickest. When I shopped for my 997 I didn't even once check its times vs. other cars. It could be seconds slower around the ring than the M3 and it wouldn't matter in the least to me. I like cars with character and soul, and ones which provide the right feel and sounds. Outside of Porsche and Ferrari, there's nothing being produced today which I find interesting in the least. I had a '08 M3 on order until I drove it on my favorite B roads in Germany. That safe 50/50 weight distribution just wasn't very thrilling. And the rather clunky 6MT sealed the deal. So I changed my order for the Z4M Coupe as it was far more driver focused and yes, I was well aware it was slower. But the car was much more fun to drive (what I care about). Last year I sacrificed it for the 997S and haven't looked back. If I were to ever pick up a bargain E9X M3 in the future as replacement daily driver, it would be hard choice between the potential failure expense of the M-DCT and the numb 6MT.

Interestingly here in Vegas we have a Cars and Coffee event every Saturday and not once have I ever seen a E9X M3 there. BMWs stay away for the most part as they're largely ignored anyway. Once a month the local BMWCCA chapter has a breakfast meet across the street from the Saturday Cars and Coffee event and rarely will any BMW owner attend both. I'm glad so many on here are thrilled with their cars. But ultimately BMW made the same mistake with the E9X M3 in which Porsche did with the 996--made it too soft and too luxurious.
So by using your logic..we American drivers that have not spent much time driving around in Europe have no credibility here..Get real dude,were you lapping the ring till the wee hours of the morning testing clandestine prototypes? Or were you substituting Walter Rohrl as a test driver for Porsche Motorsport.Maybe you can fill us in on the upcoming 911,codenamed the ''991''
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      04-03-2011, 03:31 PM   #36
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Yes,at the same time were comparing two cars made in Germany with similar build quality and material superiority vs. the American made Mustang..

So your original post referencing the Timex vs Rolex argument does not hold much water.You can put the Ford next to the Porsche and use it asTimex vs Rolex argument but not the M3
I'll put it another way. A M3 doesn't compare to a 997.2S let alone any model above that. It does not matter what the delta may be, if the buyer feels that delta is worth it. Again, value IS subjective. Sorry if the Ford thing hurt your feelings.

Hint: check for grammatical errors before posting and emoticons are for facebook school kids.
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      04-03-2011, 03:47 PM   #37
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I'll put it another way. A M3 doesn't compare to a 997.2S let alone any model above that. It does not matter what the delta may be, if the buyer feels that delta is worth it. Again, value IS subjective. Sorry if the Ford thing hurt your feelings.

Hint: check for grammatical errors before posting and emoticons are for facebook school kids.
OP was asking about the 06/07 997s.M3 does not compare to the 997.2 is your opinion.Porsche made big changes to the 997.1 and re-released it as the .2.The M3 has remained the same ever since it's intro in 2007.No hurt feelings here,were talking cars not humans after all lol
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      04-03-2011, 04:15 PM   #38
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So by using your logic..we American drivers that have not spent much time driving around in Europe have no credibility here.
Not everyone. But a lot of Americans think of car abuse as performance driving. Meaning, drifting and sliding about. I prefer driving at very high speeds, driving smoothly, and making precise inputs.

You have to admit it's odd when so many Americans think they need more power and they live in predominantly urban, low driving speed areas. Power for what? More tire spinning??? Aside from improving your skills, the best way to make something quicker is to make it brake better and improve its stability.

But to each their own.
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      04-03-2011, 05:41 PM   #39
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Official posted time is 7:59; Walter Roehrl, WHEELS, '06
And that number is absolutely incomparable to the 8:05 time since it was a different driver. Horst is a talented driver but Roehrl is in a different league. With the same driver under the same conditions the E92 M3 will best the 08 Carrera on the Ring.
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      04-03-2011, 06:48 PM   #40
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Well at least you spelled Carrera correctly...
Sorry oldman didn't know it was a spelling bee. Can one as a simple question without being attacked? If something is spelled wrong this time live with it.
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      04-03-2011, 06:55 PM   #41
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And that number is absolutely incomparable to the 8:05 time since it was a different driver. Horst is a talented driver but Roehrl is in a different league. With the same driver under the same conditions the E92 M3 will best the 08 Carrera on the Ring.
There isn't 6 seconds between those drivers. Stop kidding yourself. Besides, that 997S was without Sport Chrono but did have PASM. Sport Chrono makes an appreciable power difference across the rev range, although peak is the same. But before we split hairs all day, the bottom line is the M3 would be faster on the straights whereas the 997S will be quicker cornering and under braking, and coming out of corners. Keep in mind also this car was around when BMW still had 2 model years of production remaining on the E46 M3. BTW, the power package '08 997S .1 posted a 7:50, same as the '09 997S .2. Just shows what 30 more hp will do. A '05~'08 997S + IDP plenum ($900) = 383 hp. What holds back the .1 is the intake efficiency. Easily remedied.
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      04-03-2011, 07:00 PM   #42
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Sorry oldman didn't know it was a spelling bee. Can one as a simple question without being attacked? If something is spelled wrong this time live with it.
Makes you look uneducated if that matters to you. Just trying to help you out. BTW, it's old man and ask not as. Sorry but I'm sensitive to how the English language is being wrecked by the youth of America.
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      04-03-2011, 07:28 PM   #43
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Makes you look uneducated if that matters to you. Just trying to help you out. BTW, it's old man and ask not as. Sorry but I'm sensitive to how the English language is being wrecked by the youth of America.
You are one funny (oldman). Any way back to the show
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      04-03-2011, 07:58 PM   #44
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MVF4 you seem to be crazy
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