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      04-10-2011, 09:55 AM   #1
blueshark
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Being on time

Does anyone here have a strong opinion on this either way?

At my workplace (it's an office environment), a lot of people -- more than 20% -- walk in between 8-8:30 each morning. The official start time is 8AM, but the culture seems to support a "soft" start, and I suppose some managers quietly allow it.

Less so, this also applies to the lunch hour, where certain people tend to take 1:15-1:30 for lunch every day (1 hour is officially allowed). They happen to be managers in Marketing, and the reason I mention this is perhaps the unspoken rules are different for them? Perhaps they are discussing customers, products, etc., and very often, your best thinking happens when you're in a relaxed environment.

Back to my main question: Is a "soft" start between 8-8:30 OK if the policy says 8AM but the culture is apparently doing something different?

Thanks in advance for your perspectives!

Last edited by blueshark; 04-10-2011 at 10:05 AM.
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      04-10-2011, 10:05 AM   #2
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Where I work most higher ups are always showing up late, leaving early, taking longer lunches. But they are also the ones who have to come in during the weekends or odd times when shit hits the fan...

then there are people who aren't on time for no good reason, and my boss does know about it. it does not look good.
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      04-10-2011, 10:13 AM   #3
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I'm in a small office and soft starts wouldn't be allowed, but few people means everyone has gotta be there.

Long lunches are fine though.
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      04-10-2011, 10:21 AM   #4
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My new office is super loose on arrival time/lunch, etc...

Most people are paid pretty well and because of that are essentially expected to manage their time and get it done under any circumstances. If your schedule can allow you to come in late/leave early/take a long lunch, then go for it, but if you have lots to get done, you need to adapt your schedule accordingly.


My personal feelings are that I like to be very punctual... Probably a latent reaction to my parents always making me late to everything as a child.
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      04-10-2011, 10:38 AM   #5
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I feel like shit when I'm late to work...doesn't really bother me if other people show up later since the mornings are usually pretty quiet...my dad is always there when I get there though since he's old and gets up super early I don't think he knows what to do other than go to work...official start time is 7:30...lunch is less rigid and can be from 10min if I'm alone taking it at my desk or an hour if there's a bunch of us catching up on various projects etc...
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      04-10-2011, 10:43 AM   #6
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Where I work, unless you specifically planned a meeting time, then a soft start is OK. The traffic is absolutely unpredictable at times, and the last thing I'd want is for folks to wake up earlier just to beat a potential major traffic jam or delay (though the expectation is to do that for any planned activity).

And you mentioned that managers tacitly agree to the soft starts -- that's a big part there. If they're not enforcing Procrustean rules, then others will simply bend them for convenience.
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      04-10-2011, 11:22 AM   #7
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i, personally, hate people that aren't timely. if you say you're going to be somewhere at a certain time, be there on time. i try to be 10 minutes early to everything to ensure i won't be late. if i am late, it's usually because of something beyond my control or extraordinary.
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      04-10-2011, 11:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchlauCow View Post
Where I work, unless you specifically planned a meeting time, then a soft start is OK. The traffic is absolutely unpredictable at times, and the last thing I'd want is for folks to wake up earlier just to beat a potential major traffic jam or delay (though the expectation is to do that for any planned activity).

And you mentioned that managers tacitly agree to the soft starts -- that's a big part there. If they're not enforcing Procrustean rules, then others will simply bend them for convenience.
At my work there really is no official start time. Some people show up at 6:30, some at 7:00 and so on. Usually everyone is there by 9:00 at the latest. It just depends on the people. If they want to leave early then they come in early.

I do agree with SchlauCow about traffic. Sometimes it takes me 10-15 minutes to get to the main road (which usually takes 5 minutes max). From then you get stuck at every single damn traffic light. Either way, if your work is okay with that then there's no problem. If there is an official start time and some people show up a little late then just leave it alone as it doesn't really affect you.

Also, different departments usually have different "rules". Some people can take longer lunches than others. Some people take earlier lunches and some take later lunches. I personally support the soft start unless your company has some important things going on that require people to be on time. I mean let's face it, is 10-15 minutes gonna kill your business? I personally think employees should have a time frame to show up by. E.G. 8:30-9:00 or 8:00-8:30.
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      04-10-2011, 12:01 PM   #9
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For business meetings, I am always early. I would hate to lose a client simply because of being untimely.

However, at my small firm, everyone knows the culture of the company, "you can leave when your work is done." I'm not one of those managers who keeps people on "standby" when a major milestone has been completed, they can go home even if it's 2pm. Conversely, they can come in half an hour into our core hours as long as it's not a detriment to the completion of their task for the day. I feel my employees have worked effectively under this management style, and I've even had to send people home at 10pm because they were putting in the hours willingly.
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      04-10-2011, 12:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
For business meetings, I am always early. I would hate to lose a client simply because of being untimely.

However, at my small firm, everyone knows the culture of the company, "you can leave when your work is done." I'm not one of those managers who keeps people on "standby" when a major milestone has been completed, they can go home even if it's 2pm. Conversely, they can come in half an hour into our core hours as long as it's not a detriment to the completion of their task for the day. I feel my employees have worked effectively under this management style, and I've even had to send people home at 10pm because they were putting in the hours willingly.
I really like that style of management. It's similar to Google's as well as some other big firms and it's worked out well. I hate being micromanaged. Personally I trust my managers to trust me to get the work done. I hate being spied on, forced to stay 'til certain hour because it's supposed to be a 9-5 job, etc. The one thing they stressed in college (for business) was that micromanagement doesn't work (at least for the majority of companies).

PS- I remember seeing a video on Patagonia (the company that makes clothes and stuff) and the employees there were so happy. They would come in, get some work done, go have lunch, go surfing, then come back and finish up the work. I believe work should be fun and not just work. If you run your business with an iron fist it creates hardship on your employees.

Last edited by BMW F22; 04-10-2011 at 12:33 PM.
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      04-10-2011, 12:30 PM   #11
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For me It's either show up on time or get a verbal, write up, suspension, suspension again followed by bye bye!!! In that order.
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      04-10-2011, 01:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW E90 View Post
I really like that style of management. It's similar to Google's as well as some other big firms and it's worked out well. I hate being micromanaged. Personally I trust my managers to trust me to get the work done. I hate being spied on, forced to stay 'til certain hour because it's supposed to be a 9-5 job, etc. The one thing they stressed in college (for business) was that micromanagement doesn't work (at least for the majority of companies).

PS- I remember seeing a video on Patagonia (the company that makes clothes and stuff) and the employees there were so happy. They would come in, get some work done, go have lunch, go surfing, then come back and finish up the work. I believe work should be fun and not just work. If you run your business with an iron fist it creates hardship on your employees.
I believe the reason this style works is because employees feel like they are being treated like an adult. Micromanagement doesn't work because it's similar to how one might treat a child.

I look at it this way; intelligent, college educated adults should know how to manage their time, and the meaning of completing their task. They also know the consequences. If they value their position in the company, and the quality of the work they do, they will get their task done on time. If not, the consequences are very clear via the employee handbook. I don't think it's a good use of resources to try and enforce adult professional behavior.
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      04-10-2011, 01:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
I believe the reason this style works is because employees feel like they are being treated like an adult. Micromanagement doesn't work because it's similar to how one might treat a child.

I look at it this way; intelligent, college educated adults should know how to manage their time, and the meaning of completing their task. They also know the consequences. If they value their position in the company, and the quality of the work they do, they will get their task done on time. If not, the consequences are very clear via the employee handbook. I don't think it's a good use of resources to try and enforce adult professional behavior.
Exactly my thinking. So, is your company hiring? lol
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      04-10-2011, 03:09 PM   #14
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[quote=BMW E90;9334676]I really like that style of management. It's similar to Google's as well as some other big firms and it's worked out well. I hate being micromanaged. Personally I trust my managers to trust me to get the work done. I hate being spied on, forced to stay 'til certain hour because it's supposed to be a 9-5 job, etc. The one thing they stressed in college (for business) was that micromanagement doesn't work (at least for the majority of companies).

You have just described the US Army
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      04-10-2011, 06:10 PM   #15
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I am so with you Blake. People being late chaps my ass every time. When I arrange a group ride to depart at 1pm, we are leaving at 1pm. Show up at 12:55 and think we're going to wait for you? Too bad. next time, get there on time.

Something happened this weekend that burned me. Kids have team photos for baseball at 8am. Team mom sends out an email and team needs to be there at 7:30am to get ready for the pictures. Mind you, my 6 year old and I flew to Orlando and back on Friday, getting up at 5am and getting home at midnight. We were up, fed, (I was coffee'd), and at the field in place at 7:30. 3 others showed up before 7:35. Guess who rolls in at 7:50? Team mom - husband complaining about dragging her out of bed. I let them know I didn't want to hear it because I was there at 7:30, as instructed. They shut up.

But seriously. I know why she did it - because people with kids have shit about always running late. You're late because you don't have your SHIT together. Strap a set on, get your kids ready, and PLAN. I have two kids and we aren't late. Diapers happen - we get that. But every time? No f'n way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake View Post
i, personally, hate people that aren't timely. if you say you're going to be somewhere at a certain time, be there on time. i try to be 10 minutes early to everything to ensure i won't be late. if i am late, it's usually because of something beyond my control or extraordinary.
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      04-10-2011, 06:12 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Forum_legend View Post
If they care it matters if they don't then go in we u want but if you want advice it would be to go on time
Punctuation, PLEASE. Yes this is the internet, but I have no idea what you just posted.
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      04-11-2011, 12:10 AM   #17
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Exactly my thinking. So, is your company hiring? lol
I will be during the Summer for a project to begin in August (hopefully). If you're a talented artist and still looking around that time, I'm always looking for talented people.
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      04-11-2011, 12:18 AM   #18
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Being an entry level electrical engineer, my manager gave me a time frame of being there anywhere from 7am-9am....anything after 9 is considered bad.

From what i noticed, the later you come, the later you stay. If your coming late and leaving early, word starts spreading. Taking a longer lunch really does not make much difference from what I've noticed.

Really does make a huge difference if your an hourly (non-exempt) employee or salary (exempt) employee.
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      04-11-2011, 12:21 AM   #19
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I have a pretty loose policy
start time is 9:30 for us
I do expect everyone there by 9:45

I do have a few employees who come in at 10, but they've been working since 8:45 from home... so I don't mind (I can see their replies to emails and stuff)

if they are late, I'll ask why.. and leave it at that... I don't believe in scolding.. it barely happens, and I can't manage to be on time all the time.. they are as human as I am, and you can't expect from your employees something you can't do yourself
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      04-11-2011, 12:30 AM   #20
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Military speaking, we are required to be at work 15 minutes prior to shift start. With that said, if we start at 0700 and we are there at 0645 then we are "on time." If we are there 0655-0700hrs then we are "late" and we are held accountable by receiving paperwork. If there are prior offenses then it can lead to Dereliction of duty (Article 92 punishable under the UCMJ). We strongly believe in being punctual as we are held to a higher degree of standards than the civilian workforce and maintain a "professional image." Another way to be disciplined I guess...
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      04-11-2011, 12:35 AM   #21
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I will be during the Summer for a project to begin in August (hopefully). If you're a talented artist and still looking around that time, I'm always looking for talented people.
I'm well talented at being lazy, got room for me?
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      04-11-2011, 12:46 AM   #22
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We open at 5:30 and I usually get in around 7. Management unofficially wants us in around before 9. I hate staying at the office late.

However, there is a woman that gets in around 10-11, which I don't understand. I don't think she's been disciplined at all either, maybe because our work just looks at our individual contributions at 8 hours (we are hourly workers).
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