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      09-14-2011, 09:01 AM   #45
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Anyone see the preliminary sketches of the 2015 Mustang? They were in the latest Car&Driver or Motor Trend - I forget which one. Looks like it's going to take on more of a camaro look with shorter overhangs and a more "tightened" look. I know they're only sketches, but hopefully a sign of better things to come...
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      10-18-2011, 01:49 AM   #46
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The handling is absolutely not on par with the M3, it may post a similar lap time at willow, but that's about it. It feels like a boat.

Either way, it is a fantastic value for sure. I almost bought one...and would consider one again. Shame that it looks like it does, though...

Funny thing is when I was cross shopping my e85m vs the e90m, I said the e90 felt like a boat

And I can say that everyones fear of the live axle is without substance. I haven't felt it yet...of course I'm a bit biased b/c I bought a boss 302 a couple days ago

The ride, believe it or not, is much more solid than the m3 and pretty unflappable. And as much as there are cons to the live axle, which has been ironed out through the decades, there are pros. And one of those is that it actually puts the power down much earlier out of a turn than any IFS(as long as it's smooth of course). The biggest surprise of this purchase has been the smooth ride, which makes for a perfect daily.
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      10-18-2011, 06:52 AM   #47
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^Let's see it.

Can you say if they knocked anything off sticker?

Looking at F150's and went inside to see a white Boss.
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      10-18-2011, 08:47 AM   #48
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Funny thing is when I was cross shopping my e85m vs the e90m, I said the e90 felt like a boat

And I can say that everyones fear of the live axle is without substance. I haven't felt it yet...of course I'm a bit biased b/c I bought a boss 302 a couple days ago

The ride, believe it or not, is much more solid than the m3 and pretty unflappable. And as much as there are cons to the live axle, which has been ironed out through the decades, there are pros. And one of those is that it actually puts the power down much earlier out of a turn than any IFS(as long as it's smooth of course). The biggest surprise of this purchase has been the smooth ride, which makes for a perfect daily.
Get it for invoice?
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      10-18-2011, 08:54 AM   #49
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Solid performing car but I still couldn't live with one day to day. If performance solely is your want; then this is a solid choice... it's not for everyone though.
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      10-18-2011, 10:39 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krnnerdboy View Post
Funny thing is when I was cross shopping my e85m vs the e90m, I said the e90 felt like a boat

And I can say that everyones fear of the live axle is without substance. I haven't felt it yet...of course I'm a bit biased b/c I bought a boss 302 a couple days ago

The ride, believe it or not, is much more solid than the m3 and pretty unflappable. And as much as there are cons to the live axle, which has been ironed out through the decades, there are pros. And one of those is that it actually puts the power down much earlier out of a turn than any IFS(as long as it's smooth of course). The biggest surprise of this purchase has been the smooth ride, which makes for a perfect daily.
What's the ride like compared to the Z4M? A lot people complain about this car being very harsh riding, but I don't really mind it.
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      10-18-2011, 12:50 PM   #51
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^Let's see it.

Can you say if they knocked anything off sticker?

Looking at F150's and went inside to see a white Boss.
+1 on pics please!!

People paying ADM aren't shopping wisely. With the delays in production (supplier related), the MT-82 fiasco, and the dearth of options, Ford isn't moving the cars as quickly as they wanted to (especially the LS). Once the 2013 is unveiled and winter hits most of the country, they are going to have quite a few unsold, and quite a few still rolling off the line.

I haven't found a dealer who would wiggle on MSRP, but there are a few who are looking for the suckers, and for the most part they've been successful, even buying smaller dealers' allocations and then slapping on ADM on top of that. Now that most of the suckers have made their move, combined with the 2013 announcement (LA is rumored) and the fact that there are a lot of late arrivals, I expect to see dealers starting to realize they might end up with '12s that they can't move at or above MSRP.

Best bet to get these at MSRP is to go to a smaller dealer who has only one lottery allocation, although you have to do that before the big dealers snatch it up. Either that, or wait until November for the announcement of the '13 coupled with the arrival of winter (in some locations). The '13 is rumored to have HIDs and SYNC, along with the center display and instrument cluster track tools display. Hopefully the MT82 issues will be sorted out by then (or at least there will be a solution). If not, I'm going to pull my deposit.
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      10-18-2011, 01:00 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krnnerdboy View Post
Funny thing is when I was cross shopping my e85m vs the e90m, I said the e90 felt like a boat

And I can say that everyones fear of the live axle is without substance. I haven't felt it yet...of course I'm a bit biased b/c I bought a boss 302 a couple days ago

The ride, believe it or not, is much more solid than the m3 and pretty unflappable. And as much as there are cons to the live axle, which has been ironed out through the decades, there are pros. And one of those is that it actually puts the power down much earlier out of a turn than any IFS(as long as it's smooth of course). The biggest surprise of this purchase has been the smooth ride, which makes for a perfect daily.
Did they activate your "red key"?
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      10-18-2011, 01:15 PM   #53
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Did they activate your "red key"?
Trackey hasn't been released yet due to CARB but will be announced at SEMA and then it will become available.
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      10-19-2011, 05:34 AM   #54
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There are many showing sticker only then jerkthegoober dealers adding 5 -15K on non Laguna cars.

Lazy...what is this MT82 problem?
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      10-19-2011, 09:13 AM   #55
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Lazy...what is this MT82 problem?
It's the six speed Chinese-made (not that I really care, but it seems to be part of the uproar) Getrag transmission in the cars. Seems like it's Ford's own HPFP fiasco. It has a way of shredding synchro teeth and other teeth, and then you literally lose certain gears, ususally the 1-2 shift is the one that goes first. It's a big problem worldwide, as the transmission also goes in Transits and other stuff.... Ford is kinda dealing with it quietly for the time being, and no one has really found a suitable solution at the moment. Many many people are not affected, but a shitload are, and the dealers of course don't get paid for work not approved by Ford, so they're turning some people away who are clearly grinding to get into 2nd (if they're even lucky enough to get it). I'm too lazy to figure out which Mustang forum it was, but there was a thread with I think hundreds of pages of complaints and attempts at freelance solutions and troubleshooting. The difference between that thread and th HPFP threads here is that the mods have done a good job over there keeping the "I don't have an issue so it must all be in your head. It's really not that big of a problem" posts out of there. Anyone who pulls that shit over there gets a swift kick in the ass. People are working pretty diligently to figure it out and try solutions, but it's pretty difficult. Theories vary widely from incorrect fluid from the factory, to bolts backing out on their own (from the pressure plate I think), to the quality of the metal in the gears being shitty.

Anyway, that's about it. You can google MT-82 issues and see all sorts of videos demonstrating it, as well as forum threads galore. Ford needs to fix that shit.
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      10-19-2011, 09:21 AM   #56
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Would 1M vs. Boss 302 be a better comparison price wise? I guess power wise, the 302 is matched with the M3 better. Either way, 1M and Boss 302's prices are jacked up. They're not the performance bargains they were meant to be, and that makes me sad. **walks over to occupy [major city]**
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      10-19-2011, 10:42 AM   #57
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Thanks rc.

Chinese? Uhhhh...
Just watched a youtube on my phone of a guy trying to go through gears...no bueno.
I would have a hissy fit if it was me and i dont hissy easily.
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      10-19-2011, 10:50 AM   #58
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Thanks rc.

Chinese? Uhhhh...
Just watched a youtube on my phone of a guy trying to go through gears...no bueno.
I would have a hissy fit if it was me and i dont hissy easily.
Yup.

That's why I passed on my '12 order and will pull my '13 deposit if it's not solved. It's a shame they made such a good engine in the Coyote for the GT and BOSS, but then it's saddled by this transmission issue. If things keep going this way, I might just end up in a C63 instead. Bummer.
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      10-19-2011, 03:18 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
There are many showing sticker only then jerkthegoober dealers adding 5 -15K on non Laguna cars.

Lazy...what is this MT82 problem?
I saw a Non-LS Boss for sale for the price of a Gt500
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      10-19-2011, 03:20 PM   #60
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Quote:
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+1 on pics please!!

People paying ADM aren't shopping wisely. With the delays in production (supplier related), the MT-82 fiasco, and the dearth of options, Ford isn't moving the cars as quickly as they wanted to (especially the LS). Once the 2013 is unveiled and winter hits most of the country, they are going to have quite a few unsold, and quite a few still rolling off the line.

I haven't found a dealer who would wiggle on MSRP, but there are a few who are looking for the suckers, and for the most part they've been successful, even buying smaller dealers' allocations and then slapping on ADM on top of that. Now that most of the suckers have made their move, combined with the 2013 announcement (LA is rumored) and the fact that there are a lot of late arrivals, I expect to see dealers starting to realize they might end up with '12s that they can't move at or above MSRP.

Best bet to get these at MSRP is to go to a smaller dealer who has only one lottery allocation, although you have to do that before the big dealers snatch it up. Either that, or wait until November for the announcement of the '13 coupled with the arrival of winter (in some locations). The '13 is rumored to have HIDs and SYNC, along with the center display and instrument cluster track tools display. Hopefully the MT82 issues will be sorted out by then (or at least there will be a solution). If not, I'm going to pull my deposit.
All that $ & they don't get HIDs or Sync?!

Smart thing to do is not pay MSRP on any car unless you have $ to burn. It appears no dealers can get a 2012 GT-R Premium & only Black Editions are out there. I didn't want Black Ed, but they wanted to charge me MSRP or $10k over regardless.
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      10-20-2011, 05:31 PM   #61
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Lots of knowledgable people on this on this board regarding the boss!

Mine was listed at 5k over msrp like every other dealer in so cal and with the limited selection I was stoked to get it at 500 below msrp and then I got 3500 over Kbb for my trade in. That was total skills on my part -_-

They stopped production of the 12's in aug so there won't be any surplus of the car and a dealer just sold a laguna seca model 20k over sticker!!!

I was going to order mine in the 13 my but the production won't start until February of 2013 and then another few month before you get your order. By then I might have a new car anyways, jk, kind of -_-

As for my tranny, it shifts fine. It looks like it's an issue that shows itself from the beginning, but either way I'll find out soon enough, as this car has already seen 50 canyon miles of it's 200mi. I have 2 track days coming up in nov also. It looks like the most cost effective option for ford would be to swap the gt500 tranny as it's already readily available.

The ride compared to my z4m is night and day. And more on par with the e90 m3 I had an extended test drive in. Dont forget the boss comes with adjustable shocks and my review of them is based off of setting 2/5. But even in this setting the car carves the canyon with confidence.... Can't wait to adjust it for the track

As for the sync and hids...they were trying to go for a theme when they deleted these, bad idea I think, however they are trying to refit sync into the 12 models that have already sold.

This car is seriously a lot of car for the money and well worth what they're asking for. Also, the car includes a day at miller motorsports with a world class instructor and a boss 302($1500)....this coming from a guy who bought 4 BMWs in the last 2yrs
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      10-20-2011, 08:48 PM   #62
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Didn't realize the car came with complimentary a driving school day. That's a pretty good deal!
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      10-22-2011, 12:07 AM   #63
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The car comes with PZeros, of course its going to be faster than an M3 around a track. The skidpad numbers by themselves indicate the kind of grip such tires afford, and stickier tires are worth MUCH more than a well tuned suspension or a bit of power/weight. Plus, it's a track tuned car. On top of this, all comparisons are done across multiple days and they only take the fastest lap as opposed to an average hot lap. Hardly the most statistically sound way of comparing lap times.

TL;DR Car magazine reviews are worthless when it comes to numerical comparisons. Pick the car that subjectively fits you best. Even if you take it to a track, you're probably not going to be racing it.
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      10-22-2011, 02:20 AM   #64
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The car comes with PZeros, of course its going to be faster than an M3 around a track. The skidpad numbers by themselves indicate the kind of grip such tires afford, and stickier tires are worth MUCH more than a well tuned suspension or a bit of power/weight. Plus, it's a track tuned car. On top of this, all comparisons are done across multiple days and they only take the fastest lap as opposed to an average hot lap. Hardly the most statistically sound way of comparing lap times.

TL;DR Car magazine reviews are worthless when it comes to numerical comparisons. Pick the car that subjectively fits you best. Even if you take it to a track, you're probably not going to be racing it.
I agree with your statement but to clear things up, the regular gt with the brembo package is as quick as the m3 on the track. Plenty of videos and reviews of that. The best one was with Randy pobst driving them on the same day.... The boss really is a step above the m3 and shouldn't be compared, as stated. And only the laguna seca package got r comps, the rest of the reviews are on street tires....
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      11-02-2011, 11:55 AM   #65
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They stopped production of the 12's in aug so there won't be any surplus of the car and a dealer just sold a laguna seca model 20k over sticker!!!
As far as this goes, there are still Bosses rolling off the line, and Ford's official numbers of these cars sold is something like 2600/3250 as of the beginning of October. There have always been a number of planned Q4 builds and nothing I've heard has disputed that.

Apparently major metro areas and areas with a generally higher income are selling with ADM still, but many of them are reducing the ADM from 10 or 15k down to 5k, and a lot who had 5k ADM are now removing that too, as these cars have been sitting for months in some cases.

At this point, customers should be able to get MSRP or better in most wintry places, and only the most dickish dealers will still be holding on tight to markups in those areas. For those of you who don't experience winter, it's probably going to be more of a battle to get the price down.
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      11-02-2011, 12:09 PM   #66
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fifth gear tested it and it isn't very good
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