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      04-13-2011, 06:06 AM   #375
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These tests never happen
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      04-13-2011, 09:20 AM   #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xchosun1x View Post
i guess we can put a close to this thread.

I made a re-offer to mike and no reply....and didn't really appreciate his personal stab at me in his post, suggesting I wasted his time, money and efforts. Meanwhile he had cars to tune during that time...i'm not sure how that is a loss of time, money and efforts.

Facts are facts here. mike made an suggestion for a test. jeremy was willing to participate. schedules didn't match up and mike got mad.

oh well.... i'd rather spend my time, money and efforts with other vendors now.

oh and another thing...another fact. my car feels very responsive and more powerful with OE/Gintani tune over the PC tune I got from Mike, regardless of the dyno BS going on.

It is not in my head...its was a sensation felt immediately after the tune.

I'd like to restate that I am not a fanboy or sided by either OE or PC. I am a enthusiast just like everyone else here ( mostly).
However with the recent events and showing of character (or lack there of) ......

Thanks OE/Gintani!!!
Seriously dude? You make an appointment and pull a no-show and you've got the balls to make this look like he's unresponsive let alone even post again? Wow- Truth be told I'm not a big fan of PC and although I never met Mike I'm pretty skeptical of any vendor that actively engages in banter with customers, but you're dead wrong. Not only did you waste his time but you killed any chance at getting this comparison done- or maybe that was the intent? Shame because I think this would have done a huge service for the M3 board community.

A phone call is all he was asking.
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      04-13-2011, 11:08 AM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
These tests never happen
+1

I was hoping to see the results of these tests...
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      04-13-2011, 11:52 AM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xchosun1x View Post
i guess we can put a close to this thread.

I made a re-offer to mike and no reply....and didn't really appreciate his personal stab at me in his post, suggesting I wasted his time, money and efforts. Meanwhile he had cars to tune during that time...i'm not sure how that is a loss of time, money and efforts.

Facts are facts here. mike made an suggestion for a test. jeremy was willing to participate. schedules didn't match up and mike got mad.

oh well.... i'd rather spend my time, money and efforts with other vendors now.

oh and another thing...another fact. my car feels very responsive and more powerful with OE/Gintani tune over the PC tune I got from Mike, regardless of the dyno BS going on.

It is not in my head...its was a sensation felt immediately after the tune.

I'd like to restate that I am not a fanboy or sided by either OE or PC. I am a enthusiast just like everyone else here ( mostly).
However with the recent events and showing of character (or lack there of) ......

Thanks OE/Gintani!!!
James,

You did waste my time and money by leading me to believe that you were going to continue with the date that we tentatively planned. You could have EASILY called, emailed, or sent a text message saying that you would not be able to attend. It's not a personal stab - it's the truth. It was disrespectful of my time and my efforts to prove to everyone that there is foul play here. You completely wasted my time and considering I am a business professional would you expect me to not be frustrated? Especially considering I've offered you a once sided deal that entitles you to over a thousand dollars?


We've had plenty of wasted opportunities to run this test, and each time you and Jeremy backed down for flimsy reasons. For example, first you wanted Jeremy present. Jeremy's presence isn't needed because we offered to buy you an EZ Flash, and as part of the testing procedure, he's not even allowed to touch the car anyways; so I don't understand this. Then the excuse changed that you couldn't make it because of Gintani/OE preparations for M-Fest. That's strange also because neither Gintani nor OE Tuning are sponsors of M-Fest anyway.

In response to "Meanwhile he had cars to tune during that time...i'm not sure how that is a loss of time, money and efforts.": For Friday there were three cars scheduled for the dyno. Your car, a customers E92 M3, and my car to fine tweak the akrapovic software. Considering you didn't respond, the customer I had scheduled remains untuned, and my car was also never re-dynotuned. The event was scheduled specifically for you, and it just made sense to have a group session to reduce time commitments on multiple days. So yes - it was a waste of time, money, and efforts. Especially since I cancelled all of my IT clients for that day to make room for the shootout.

Powerchip is a global company, and has more technical capabilities in more locations around the world than any other 'chiptuning'company we are aware of.

Powerchip is unlike a lot of aftermarket tuners in the we have a technical team with multiple layers to ensure a consistency of quality of product and service for many years to come.

Many companies selling 'tunes' are a 'one man band', often the head tuner is the only employee and will use different email accounts such as 'sales' and 'info' to generate leads, but then he will be the only person answering the emails because he does not have any employees. Obviously this saves on fixed costs, but if the tuner leaves the company or is forced to return to his home country, it leaves the possibility of a lack of continued support.

Powerchip has four levels of technical skills.

The Installer - as the name suggests, installs the product into the car

The Local Software Calibrator - customizes the calibration that has been designed by the Senior Calibration Engineer for the local market

Senior Calibration Engineer - Has been with Powerchip for 6 years and oversees the day to day design of the engine calibrations, he reverse engineers the factory calibrations, and he disassembles the source code, and implements the map encryption technologies.

Our Engineering Director holds a doctorate in Engineering from the prestigious Cambridge University in the UK, and has over 15 years experience in designing automotive calibrations for the OEM on unreleased cars prior to joining Powerchip, and he is in charge of ensuring that our technology is designed and tested using OEM style practices, and also oversees calibration integrity from each of our technical centers around the globe.

We presently have technical recourses in four locations that produce localized calibrations specific to the needs of each market, with different fuel octanes and calibrations, this is becoming very important. We have local techs in Europe, Tokyo, California and Australia. Most 'chiptuners' don't have four technicians in the whole company, Powerchip have the ability to produce a locally produced 'custom tune' to suit local modifications or local fuel with technicians 'on the ground' in four regions around the world, and this capability exists without the local Software Calibrator needing to send the Senior calibration Engineer the file to tune. Compare this with other companies reading files out with a 'slave' and then sending the file to one 'master' location for the one man band tuner to modify and send a locked file back. Our four engineering capabilities ALL produce localized versions of UNLOCKED software, in the local market, to suit local conditions. They are not simply installing a locked file made by a 'head tuner' in another remote location. So that means we can 'custom dyno tune' in each of the four regions.

It is true that Jeremy left Powerchip and now sells a modified version of a tune that was developed by Powerchip’s senior calibration engineer. That's life unfortunately. With Powerchip having four tuning centers around the world, and with the skills 'passed down' to allow the local software calibrator to make unlocked changes, it is a fact of life that self-interest will mean that someone leaves and sets up in competition.

As you can see with our formal structure, we don't rely on one tuner to design Powerchip software. The library of the company’s files goes back 19 years, so it’s important that the continuation of business goes on even when a technical staff member leaves. I'm not sure you're going to have the same consistency with OE Tuning.

Thank you.
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 04-14-2011 at 09:58 PM.
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      04-13-2011, 12:17 PM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbk1115 View Post
+1

I was hoping to see the results of these tests...
I think I called it about 18 pages ago. This will never happen. But I will say it now, the recent developments in this thread lead me to believe that we aren't getting the whole story.
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      04-13-2011, 12:54 PM   #380
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I don't think Mike@PC should have lost his cool, but I kind of agree with him. Why does Jeremy even need to be there?
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      04-13-2011, 01:03 PM   #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brizzom View Post
I don't think Mike@PC should have lost his cool, but I kind of agree with him. Why does Jeremy even need to be there?
I didn't lose my cool. Being frustrated from investing multiple hours into something only to be stood up and given multiple unsatisfactory excuses is different than losing my cool.

Jeremy does not need to be there at all. The only purpose of him being there is to remove the OE tuning file from the car, which is exactly why we proposed the use of his own EZFlash unit.

I won't mention Jeremy's attitude and professionalism from my last visit at Gintani. Given that, it might be better if he is not there notwithstanding the open invitation. He is free to show up and encouraged to as long as he acts like an adult.
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      04-13-2011, 02:35 PM   #382
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It's more damaging to a company's image/standing with the enthusiast community having these types of concerns than losing a few hours of time during the day to complete this test and clear their name.

This goes to both PC, Gintani, and potentially owner of car.

It really shows a lot.
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      04-13-2011, 02:48 PM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip View Post
James,
You did waste my time and money by leading me to believe that you were going to continue with the date that we tentatively planned. You could have EASILY called, emailed, or sent a text message saying that you would not be able to attend. It's not a personal stab - it's the truth. It was disrespectful of my time and my efforts to prove to everyone that there is foul play here. You completely wasted my time and considering I am a business professional would you expect me to not be frustrated? Especially considering I've offered you a once sided deal that entitles you to over a thousand dollars?
"Tentatively" - so the date was not set in stone. Why do you feel you were stood up? You said it yourself, plans were not finalized.
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      04-13-2011, 04:03 PM   #384
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Mike Benvo has always been good to me, but he does jump the gun a bit when he gets frustrated. It's just a personality trait that I realized he had (not unlike myself actually). Hopefully Mike, James, and Jeremy can get something worked out, so this issue can be put to rest.
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      04-13-2011, 04:12 PM   #385
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As I mentioned before, you can tune my car and then have OE tune my car and then you guys can compare dyno charts

Btw, i don't know if this matters, but I drove xchosun1x's car the other day and it was fast

I haven't driven a PC tuned car so I cannot comment on that, but xchosun1x's car was a blast to drive (even if it was a short drive and I didn't redline it)

I hope everything works out best for everyone...
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      04-13-2011, 10:58 PM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluechipper View Post
"Tentatively" - so the date was not set in stone. Why do you feel you were stood up? You said it yourself, plans were not finalized.
Yes, the date itself was set in stone. It was "tentative" based on the fact that I had to make sure a neutral third party dyno operator would be available to do the testing on that date.

I told James that I would make all of the arrangments for that day, and if there was an issue where we couldn't be accomodated on that day, I would let him know immediately. I believe that was on a Monday or Tuesday. So I spent the middle of the week trying to iron out the arrangements (namely the dyno), and then received no communication back from him.

This was not a misunderstanding but a lack of action on his part.
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      04-14-2011, 03:51 AM   #387
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sorry to say Mike but you called less than 24 hours before the actual date and time to confirm. That doesn't fit with your "letting me know monday or tuesday" statement.

I'm not sure how you can consider a hard date when you haven't confirmed with the third party dyno before hand....isn't that the meaning of tentative?

if you want to put blame on me...go ahead..nothing is going to stop you.
I did take responsibility for not getting in contact with you and admitted to it however places 100% of blame on me? Making me responsible for you losing out on your other jobs, missed calls etc meanwhile tuning other cars at the dyno facility mentioned earlier?


I have my views on it and so do you.

whatever makes you feel better
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      04-14-2011, 03:54 AM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip View Post
Yes, the date itself was set in stone. It was "tentative" based on the fact that I had to make sure a neutral third party dyno operator would be available to do the testing on that date.
that statement is just junk.

so if the dyno facility was not available that day.....we still would have met and sat on our asses because it was a 'set in stone' date?

that is tentative....not set in stone

oh and btw...when did I say I couldn't go on friday bc of Gintani/OE's M fest deadline?

you must have you facts really mixed up on a few things...

-I had tight deadlines that needed to be met for my business, working around the clock on with clients to get this done. Where in that is Gintani/OE involved? If that is a flimsy excuse then so be it. But I'm sure there would be a certain number of people that would see that as not flimsy.

-How did me not coming to the test session effect the other customer and your car? Did he (customer) have a tentative date or set in stone date?

Thanks for sharing the structure of PC and its multiple tiers of technicians, installers and tuners. That is really helpful information to the thread!!!! Are you suggesting that oe/gintani is a one man band and is inferior to PC's great company set up?

Last edited by xchosun1x; 04-14-2011 at 04:07 AM.
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      04-14-2011, 05:06 AM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xchosun1x View Post
Are you suggesting that oe/gintani is a one man band and is inferior to PC's great company set up?
They are
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      04-14-2011, 07:49 AM   #390
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James, I'm done arguing with you.

It's clear that you have an inherent bias because you are trying to defend a company that gave you doctored dyno charts, instead of trying to acertain the validity of their claims. You have gone through great lengths to make excuses for them and not continue with the test, or another third party dyno to verify the claims.

And yes, obviously PC's structure is much better than a ONE man band tuner. I'm sure you'll find out why in a year or two. It's a really simple concept. As a business owner yourself this should be crystal clear to you.

Still waiting for you to accept a day to dyno your car, put the Powerchip file in and redyno your car. What are you waiting for? Let's proceed with the testing. Are you afraid the results aren't going to be what you are expecting?

Please tell us or PM me with dates that you will DEFINITELY be available for the test so we can coordinate it. Make sure you will not have any prior obligations on those dates to avoid missing the test again.

If it becomes repeadely difficult to schedule with you, I will offer a free tune to someone with a stock car as long as Jeremy/OE is willing to offer one as well. Then we can put those tunes against eachother and see what happens. But I would really to have a dyno proven comparison on your mathematically impossible dyno chart



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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 04-14-2011 at 07:55 AM.
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      04-14-2011, 08:13 AM   #391
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I'm guessing you guys are pretty much sealing the deal that this will never happen.
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      04-14-2011, 10:05 AM   #392
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Might be fun to see what the results of a new OE dyno run would show. I know it's less valuable than the comparison Mike proposed and maybe useless ultimately but I'd like to see if things change dramatically from first dyno and why.

If the shootout doesn't happen, at least there's no reason why this re-test couldn't explain some things.
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      04-14-2011, 11:22 AM   #393
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Attempts have always been made for different tunes to be dyno tested. They never seem to happen for some reason.
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      04-14-2011, 01:10 PM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip View Post
It's clear that you have an inherent bias because you are trying to defend a company that gave you doctored dyno charts, instead of trying to acertain the validity of their claims. You have gone through great lengths to make excuses for them and not continue with the test, or another third party dyno to verify the claims.
My bias is nothing more based on the fact that you made a personal stab at me in your comments a few days ago. You keep mentioning "business owner" but do you know anything about customer service and etiquette? I have NOT made excuses FOR "them", but merely repeated the reasons they had previously stated. How is that making up excuses for them?
please tell me mike, i'd love to know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip View Post
And yes, obviously PC's structure is much better than a ONE man band tuner. I'm sure you'll find out why in a year or two. It's a really simple concept. As a business owner yourself this should be crystal clear to you.
I am a self employed business owner and operate and run mostly everything myself. With your statement, you seem to be completely knocking down anyone who works hard in a small business operation. Are you serious? What is crystal clear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip View Post
Still waiting for you to accept a day to dyno your car, put the Powerchip file in and redyno your car. What are you waiting for? Let's proceed with the testing. Are you afraid the results aren't going to be what you are expecting?
I love how you twist this around on how its you waiting on me. I made a quick reply ending in "what you say?". Remember that one, or perhaps conveniently not read that one?
I put an offer to YOU. I'm waiting on YOU.

You seem to have a talent of twisting things around to either make me look less reputable in the forum community or to make yourself look better.

Either way, you have made personal statements to me, have twisted around facts and have put me and OE/Gintani in the same target when I'm supposed to be in the middle as a consumer.

Mike, please understand that this is a public and open forum and your actions, words and etiquette here isn't making you look good. To some you may look great...but I'm sure that the reputation of PC, but mostly, which is your part time job, is being effected.
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      04-14-2011, 01:46 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xchosun1x View Post
My bias is nothing more based on the fact that you made a personal stab at me in your comments a few days ago. You keep mentioning "business owner" but do you know anything about customer service and etiquette? I have NOT made excuses FOR "them", but merely repeated the reasons they had previously stated. How is that making up excuses for them?
please tell me mike, i'd love to know.
I did not take a personal stab at you. I stated a fact that I spent a lot of time making the arrangements during the week on the date YOU said you would be free all day. You didn't have the courtesy to call me back and say that you wouldn't be able to make it, which you could have done at any time.

You are the one that has been mentioning "business owner", I was simply reiterating what you said.

Why do you feel the need to restate the reasons why THEY can't make it? Is this issue not important enough to them for them to post the reasons themselves? Jeremy's involvement is unnecessary. We have stated that numerous times and told you that it's completely fine if he wishes to attend as long as he is level headed. Instead of addressing these concerns (either on here, or the day I went there), they disappeared as sponsors from this forum... I wonder why?

I'm not sure how much better customer service you expect considering I have offered you a FULL refund, a FREE EZFlash unit, FREE Dyno, and Lunch...



Quote:
Originally Posted by xchosun1x View Post
I am a self employed business owner and operate and run mostly everything myself. With your statement, you seem to be completely knocking down anyone who works hard in a small business operation. Are you serious? What is crystal clear?.
I am a self employed business owner and operate and run mostly everything my self as well. What's crystal clear is that a company with a support network that has been around for 20 years has far more capabilities and customer support that an X employee. There is more involved here specifically referring to Jeremy and if you'd like me to bring all of that up, we can discuss that as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xchosun1x View Post
I love how you twist this around on how its you waiting on me. I made a quick reply ending in "what you say?". Remember that one, or perhaps conveniently not read that one?
I put an offer to YOU. I'm waiting on YOU .
Actually I waited on you all day on Friday. You never called back on Thursday. I made the arrangements based on a day you said you would be free. You didn't bother to call and say you couldn't make it, or show up. Then I stated to tell me your availablity, and of course I have not received an email, PM or phone call from you stating what days you are available for the test? Is it because you don't want to continue with it? Will it be exposing OE/Gintani? Why were they so reluctant on the day I was there to show me the correction factor from your dyno? If Gintani was my company I'd be all up in my face proving to everyone why that dyno chart was 100% legit.

I am waiting on you to let me know what days YOU are free so I can schedule your car to go on the dyno for the test. Please let me know so we can proceed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xchosun1x View Post
You seem to have a talent of twisting things around to either make me look less reputable in the forum community or to make yourself look better.
I'm not trying to make anyone look better or worse. I have simply stated facts. Please take it or leave it. Customer support is my number one priority. Find another company that would offer you what we've put on the table. A full refund, free lunch, free dyno, and buying a competitiors EZ Flash product for you. We have been more than fair in extending generosity here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xchosun1x View Post
Either way, you have made personal statements to me, have twisted around facts and have put me and OE/Gintani in the same target when I'm supposed to be in the middle as a consumer.
If you are in the middle as a consumer, then please tell us what days you are free so we can put the car on the dyno and compelte the test for the rest of the forum to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xchosun1x View Post
Mike, please understand that this is a public and open forum and your actions, words and etiquette here isn't making you look good. To some you may look great...but I'm sure that the reputation of PC, but mostly, which is your part time job, is being effected.
I don't need to prove myself to you or anyone else. You're entitled to your own opinion as is everyone else. Enough with the back and forth - tell us what dates you are available so we can prove to the world what the last 18 pages has been saying about your dyno chart.
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      04-14-2011, 02:09 PM   #396
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let's make a new date, place and time and everyone adhere to it!
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