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      04-09-2011, 01:09 PM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11' AW M3 View Post
good point. OE should have no ability to modify the tune from what is on his vehicle currently. The order should be the following:

a few dyno runs with the current tune --> Load stock software and let it adapt --> a few dyno runs with the stock software --> Load PC software and let it adapt --> a few dyno runs with the PC software --> Reload the software of choice if necessary
Correct.

All this needs to be done on the same day, same dyno, same tank of fuel.

So many times have I seen "tuners" throw in race gas into the car for their own pull, then dyno the car with regular fuel just to boast their numbers a few ticks.
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      04-09-2011, 01:14 PM   #354
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like I said, needs to be the same dyno, same car, same operator, with pre and post flash dyno numbers...thats honestly how it should be for any aftermarket performance mod measurement....ez flash would work as well....
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      04-09-2011, 02:27 PM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
This is all a crock of crap !! I hate run arounds ...
This dyno event shouldnt take more than 2 hours , your telling me you don't have two hours to prove your golden point ??? Pleaseee
Where's Batman when you need him ....
:Robin to batman : holy tampered dyno Batman the Joker is at it again ... Quick to the ESS SC'rd Batmobile ...
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      04-09-2011, 03:44 PM   #356
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I have an idea. If both tuners are going to be at M-Fest, why don't they just do a shootout there, in front of everybody? For everybody to see, hear, judge for themselves.
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      04-09-2011, 06:44 PM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chungdae View Post
I have an idea. If both tuners are going to be at M-Fest, why don't they just do a shootout there, in front of everybody? For everybody to see, hear, judge for themselves.
+1 if there's a dyno there that would be sick.
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      04-10-2011, 04:12 AM   #358
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Lets face it chaps. This shootout is never going to happen.
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      04-10-2011, 02:48 PM   #359
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WOAH!!! Anyone else notice Gintani aren't sponsors on here anymore? At least they don't have the sponsor designation near their names...

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      04-10-2011, 04:06 PM   #360
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^+1
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      04-11-2011, 02:02 AM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11' AW M3 View Post
You are forgetting different dyno's read differently. To get an accurate answer, he will need to do a stock baseline run (a few actually), then load up the oe tuning software and do a few runs that way. The conditions need to be the same, and all else equal.

alpine335- aren't you an OETuning dealer? If so, get your biased garbage out of here. Your attempts at distracting from the issues at hand are futile and pathetic at best. I don't think it can get any more fair than what Mike has proposed. Let them do the test fair and square. The numbers will speak for themselves!
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Different Alpines, relax
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      04-11-2011, 06:28 AM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11' AW M3 View Post
WOAH!!! Anyone else notice Gintani aren't sponsors on here anymore? At least they don't have the sponsor designation near their names...

And I bet that if you asked them why, they'd say it was because they are allocating all of their resources to MFest.
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      04-11-2011, 02:49 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sole cal View Post
you sure about that? I know its a different Alpine, but, from what I remember, this guy is an OETuning dealer on the East Coast. Could be wrong.
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      04-11-2011, 02:55 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Kyoshi71 View Post
And I bet that if you asked them why, they'd say it was because they are allocating all of their resources to MFest.
HAHAHA!!
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      04-11-2011, 06:20 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
Are the tunes readily available?

If they are, they can use my car.
I offered my car before and didn't hear back

Quote:
Originally Posted by chungdae View Post
I have an idea. If both tuners are going to be at M-Fest, why don't they just do a shootout there, in front of everybody? For everybody to see, hear, judge for themselves.
I don't think there will be a dyno in vegas at mfest... i could be wrong though
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      04-11-2011, 07:58 PM   #366
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I'm not directly an OE dealer. That alpine is different and he is an OE dealer. I work for lomotion located in NY. Lomotion is run by my buddy JJ who worked for gintani/OE out in Cali. He does just the normal oe flash out of the shop here. No dyno on site. When people want a dyno tune we use one of two 3rd party dynos always. NRG (dynoJet) in Long Island and now a local dyno at an Audi specialty shop (mustang dyno) So when people ask how I know Jeremy isn't manipulating dyno sheets it's because when he is out here tuning he doesn't even go near the dyno computer. The shops run there own dyno while Jeremy Is in the car. I honestly wish jero would just get this dyno shoot out over so he can shut everyone up. I'm starting to get frustrated because I know it's not manipulated but unfortunately it looks that way and it's hurting our business on the east coast. Hopefully this can all get straightened out soon so we can rebuild our rep out here. We tune more then BMW. We have been tuning and working on corvettes for over 20 years and are well know in NY for corvettes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11' AW M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sole cal View Post
you sure about that? I know its a different Alpine, but, from what I remember, this guy is an OETuning dealer on the East Coast. Could be wrong.
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      04-11-2011, 08:20 PM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine335i View Post
I'm not directly an OE dealer. That alpine is different and he is an OE dealer. I work for lomotion located in NY. Lomotion is run by my buddy JJ who worked for gintani/OE out in Cali. He does just the normal oe flash out of the shop here. No dyno on site. When people want a dyno tune we use one of two 3rd party dynos always. NRG (dynoJet) in Long Island and now a local dyno at an Audi specialty shop (mustang dyno) So when people ask how I know Jeremy isn't manipulating dyno sheets it's because when he is out here tuning he doesn't even go near the dyno computer. The shops run there own dyno while Jeremy Is in the car. I honestly wish jero would just get this dyno shoot out over so he can shut everyone up. I'm starting to get frustrated because I know it's not manipulated but unfortunately it looks that way and it's hurting our business on the east coast. Hopefully this can all get straightened out soon so we can rebuild our rep out here. We tune more then BMW. We have been tuning and working on corvettes for over 20 years and are well know in NY for corvettes.
You offer zero proof that dyno is not manipulated here. That is the problem. You just sound like a Gintani fan, nothing more. Just cause you like Jeremy proves nothing in this thread.
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      04-11-2011, 08:37 PM   #368
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Pretty sure I just stated that "I know" meaning me, and I wish "Jeremy" would take care of this. We offer a service for jeremy. If we don't sell another OE tune our business is perfectly fine. This is his company and he has to take care of the proof. I'm just stating the "I", "me" and " myself" know the truth. So when he does take care of giving you the proof. I can then say "I" told you so. I just like all of you, love working on BMWs and love seeing them come into the shop. So hopefully "Jeremy" can take care of this sooner then later.
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      04-11-2011, 08:45 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
You offer zero proof that dyno is not manipulated here. That is the problem. You just sound like a Gintani fan, nothing more. Just cause you like Jeremy proves nothing in this thread.
I'm on neither side... but at the same time, someone saying they don't like OE Gintani Jeremey isn't enough as well

yes I'm the devil's advocate.
i think
maybe

nvm
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      04-12-2011, 06:10 AM   #370
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Quote:
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I'm on neither side... but at the same time, someone saying they don't like OE Gintani Jeremey isn't enough as well

yes I'm the devil's advocate.
i think
maybe

nvm
Absolutely agree. But that side has posted some mathematical proofs and also tried to organize a test to back their claims.

I take no sides either.
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      04-12-2011, 06:21 AM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine335i View Post
I'm not directly an OE dealer. That alpine is different and he is an OE dealer. I work for lomotion located in NY. Lomotion is run by my buddy JJ who worked for gintani/OE out in Cali. He does just the normal oe flash out of the shop here.
Close enough for me to think you have a horse in the race and that your posts aren't impartial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine335i View Post
So when people ask how I know Jeremy isn't manipulating dyno sheets it's because when he is out here tuning he doesn't even go near the dyno computer.
Whatever. However, what happens in Van Nuys stays in Van Nuys, maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine335i View Post
I'm starting to get frustrated because I know it's not manipulated but unfortunately it looks that way and it's hurting our business on the east coast. Hopefully this can all get straightened out soon so we can rebuild our rep out here.
Sorry about your frustration. Try chewing on the back of a pen.
As for reputation repair, as a business consultant, that's not happening. Find another tuner to get behind and learn this lesson: Being a Shill for a vendor and blindly siding against your paying & potential customer base will always end in disaster.
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      04-13-2011, 03:19 AM   #372
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i guess we can put a close to this thread.

I made a re-offer to mike and no reply....and didn't really appreciate his personal stab at me in his post, suggesting I wasted his time, money and efforts. Meanwhile he had cars to tune during that time...i'm not sure how that is a loss of time, money and efforts.

Facts are facts here. mike made an suggestion for a test. jeremy was willing to participate. schedules didn't match up and mike got mad.

oh well.... i'd rather spend my time, money and efforts with other vendors now.

oh and another thing...another fact. my car feels very responsive and more powerful with OE/Gintani tune over the PC tune I got from Mike, regardless of the dyno BS going on.

It is not in my head...its was a sensation felt immediately after the tune.

I'd like to restate that I am not a fanboy or sided by either OE or PC. I am a enthusiast just like everyone else here ( mostly).
However with the recent events and showing of character (or lack there of) ......

Thanks OE/Gintani!!!
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      04-13-2011, 03:41 AM   #373
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Quote:
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oh and another thing...another fact. my car feels very responsive and more powerful with OE/Gintani tune over the PC tune I got from Mike, regardless of the dyno BS going on.

It is not in my head...its was a sensation felt immediately after the tune.
Yes -- its the throttle re-map that you "feel" -- its similar to when you change the "Sport" to "Sport+" settings.

AFR gains on these engines are marginal at best. But you can remap the throttle to feel like its faster/quicker/more responsive/more sensitive all day long.

Personally, I would not waste my money on any of these tunes ...and everytime you want to "feel" like you just got a tune -hit the Sport+ button-
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      04-13-2011, 03:44 AM   #374
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Yes -- its the throttle re-map that you "feel" -- its similar to when you change the "Sport" to "Sport+" settings.

AFR gains on these engines are marginal at best. But you can remap the throttle to feel like its faster/quicker/more responsive/more sensitive all day long.

Personally, I would not waste my money on any of these tunes ...and everytime you want to "feel" like you just got a tune -hit the Sport+ button-
that might be true...however isn't that what all tunes do anyways?

while talking w mike about the PC tune I had last year, he said they do the same thing along with other tunes as well.

so I dont see why that is such an issue?

Yes I did feel a throttle responsive difference but feeling the power gains through the rpm range from 3000-redline at 3th gear (dct) on a freeway on-ramp isn't all bc of throttle manipulation
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