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      02-01-2014, 01:01 PM   #1
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PSS or RE11 or AD80?

Hi guys,

My current set of tires is getting toward the end of their life and will be time for new ones soon.

Debating between Michelin PSS, the Bridgestone RE-11 and Yoko AD80 on 19" ZCP wheels.

There is a lot of information on the forum and from what I gathered the PSS are the best for the street(good traction, quiet and good performance in the wet), the RE-11 and AD08 have better traction, louder and not good on wet roads, better for track use.

I drive the M on weekends and during the week sometimes but usually not when it's raining as I have another car I use to go to work every day.

I am looking for the best traction on dry road (don’t like when the rear end breaks lose when up-shifting at high RPM and trying to reduce the traction control to kick in during a pull in 2nd gear) and for occasional track days (maybe 2-3 times a year). I am in FL.

Thanks for the recommendations guys.

Last edited by GAM; 02-01-2014 at 01:07 PM.
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      02-01-2014, 01:03 PM   #2
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Are you going to track the car?
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      02-01-2014, 01:08 PM   #3
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Are you going to track the car?
Mostly street use but might get into a few track sessions (2 or 3 times a year)
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      02-01-2014, 01:14 PM   #4
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I tracked PSS on my Porsche 997S. Its an ok high performance street tire. I had no complaints. I have some buddies that really liked ADs
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      02-01-2014, 01:32 PM   #5
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AD08's are not that bad in the rain, just not as good as the PSS I imagine. I'm on my third set of AD's and will probably opt for the new version for my next set if that says anything.

I autox/DD the car and it appears they would hold up decently on track based on not overheating on longer aggressive autox courses.
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      02-01-2014, 02:09 PM   #6
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AD08's or PSS are your best options. Both are available in 255/35/19 and 275/35/19 sizes. I don't think the Bridgestone's are available in those sizes which I think are ideal for ZCP wheels. Based on your desire for max grip, the AD08's are best but you do sacrifice noise and tire life over the PSS. You can't really go wrong with either option.
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      02-01-2014, 02:57 PM   #7
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The PSS is not in the same class as the RE-11 or AD-08. The PSS is a "very high performance" street tire whereas the RE-11 & AD-08 are streetable race tires.

Ask yourself this: will I be routinely driving in a manner to take advantage of the slightly better traction the RE-11 & AD-08 offer [at the very limit]? Does that outweigh the reduced wet traction, increased tread noise, shorter life, and higher price? I'd bet the answer is no.

My advice is that you stick with the PSS in the stock size, or perhaps 10mm wider front and rear. They will handle the occasional track excursion. If you are driving fast enough on public roads to take full advantage of a tire like the RE-11 or AD-08, you need to slow down and reserve that behavior for the track.
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      02-01-2014, 04:40 PM   #8
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The PSS, in instrumented tests, is essentially the equal to the AD08 in the dry, just a tad behind in dry autocross 59.9 vs 59.7 seconds, way ahead in wet autocross 62.6 vs 64.4, and essentially equal in dry braking and skidpad tests but also significantly better than the AD08 in wet braking and skidpad. This of course is not the AD08R, but the AD08 -- test data from C&D/Tire Rack Aug 2012.

Go with the PSS. They will wear better, be a bit quieter and ride better. The PSS give up 0.3% in a dry autocross/track scenario to the AD08...not really worth the drawbacks for daily use, especially wet performance sacrifices.
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      02-01-2014, 05:01 PM   #9
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AD08(&R) and RE11 are noticeably quicker on track but for your uses, it sounds like PSS is a better choice.
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      02-01-2014, 05:37 PM   #10
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I think you'd be happiest with the PSS overall.
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      02-01-2014, 10:08 PM   #11
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I have had two front PSS tires chunk to the cords. One happened at a CCA Car Control Clinic which is done at low speeds. The other gave up after a couple of Auto X. Tire Rack told me the PSS is not a track use tire so no warranty. This was my second set of tires. First set was Continentals that came with the car. They had no problem with Auto X and chunking.

I am going to try the AD08R next. I believe for street class Auto X I need to have at least a 140 treadwear rating.
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      02-01-2014, 10:19 PM   #12
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Thanks guys for all the comments in such a short amount of time!
Any of you guys had the AD80 or RE-11 on their cars before or after the PSS?
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      02-01-2014, 10:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White 13 View Post
I have had two front PSS tires chunk to the cords. One happened at a CCA Car Control Clinic which is done at low speeds. The other gave up after a couple of Auto X. Tire Rack told me the PSS is not a track use tire so no warranty. This was my second set of tires. First set was Continentals that came with the car. They had no problem with Auto X and chunking.

I am going to try the AD08R next. I believe for street class Auto X I need to have at least a 140 treadwear rating.
Due to the rules, the PSS is the tire of choice and the winner of the Tire Rack 1 Lap of America for the past few years -which is extremely demanding. Plenty of E9X M3s, Vipers, and heavy GTRs have done the entire event on the same set of tires without crippling issues.

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      02-02-2014, 07:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
Due to the rules, the PSS is the tire of choice and the winner of the Tire Rack 1 Lap of America for the past few years -which is extremely demanding. Plenty of E9X M3s, Vipers, and heavy GTRs have done the entire event on the same set of tires without crippling issues.

0.02
Chunking up a PSS in short order would point toward a driver, perhaps using DSC, way overdriving the front tires on a continual basis (running slip angles way past the peak tractive force so just a ton of heat is generated)...
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      02-02-2014, 08:59 AM   #15
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IMO... AD08's, PSS, RE-11. In that order

I have had two sets of PSS and two sets of AD08's.
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      02-02-2014, 09:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAM View Post
Thanks guys for all the comments in such a short amount of time!
Any of you guys had the AD80 or RE-11 on their cars before or after the PSS?

I went from AD-08's to PSS's as my street tires. As street tires PSS's are great, quieter, longer life'd, and with better wet and cold traction than the AD08's ( which aren't bad).

On the track, PSS will get greasie and melt if pushed. They are not track tires. The AD08's could be run on the track comfortably, I often used them for my first session of the day, before switching to my R compounds ( easier to learn a new track as they talk...). I do like the PSS on the track on as rain tires, where I think they are slightly better than the AD08's.

If you are a novice track driver, then PSS's on the track are fine. It takes a while before they heat up too much. An advanced driver would have to manage them on the track ( give them a breather now and then).
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      02-02-2014, 11:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White 13 View Post
I have had two front PSS tires chunk to the cords. One happened at a CCA Car Control Clinic which is done at low speeds. The other gave up after a couple of Auto X. Tire Rack told me the PSS is not a track use tire so no warranty. This was my second set of tires. First set was Continentals that came with the car. They had no problem with Auto X and chunking.

I am going to try the AD08R next. I believe for street class Auto X I need to have at least a 140 treadwear rating.


As someone else mentioned, I think you were overdriving them. I have a couple of autocrosses on mine and they don't show any signs of wear. It's a popular tire for that exact kind of use and people are not complaining in droves about it.

Feel free to try the AD-08R, but you'll probably see the same thing. You need to adjust your technique.
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      02-02-2014, 02:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAM View Post
Thanks guys for all the comments in such a short amount of time!
Any of you guys had the AD80 or RE-11 on their cars before or after the PSS?
Hey GAM,

I had the PSS (255-275/35/19) before switching to AD08Rs in the same sizes. The reason I switched was to get more consistency while tracking. The grip level feels slightly higher in the AD08Rs compared to the PSS but I have no reliable data to confirm that. However, they were much more consistent especially during braking. I went to PBIR 2/1/2014 and they never gave up on me. The PSS can get squirmy/greasy at the track after a few laps. The PSS lasted for about 5 track days at my skill level. The AD08Rs may last longer but we shall see.

On the road, the AD08Rs have slightly more noise but nothing substantial. I drove 70 miles to the track with no complaints. The ride is stiffer, but again, nothing substantially different from the PSS tires. One thing I loved about the PSS tires was the traction in the rain and how long they lasted. The PSS took a lot of abuse before they were ready for a new set. They are awesome tires!

When I get a set of dedicated track wheels, the PSS tires are going back on my M359 rims for daily driving. For now, the AD08Rs are really impressive tires and I have no complaints so far.
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      02-02-2014, 03:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAM View Post
Thanks guys for all the comments in such a short amount of time!
Any of you guys had the AD80 or RE-11 on their cars before or after the PSS?
I had RE-11s on my car when I bought it, and ran them for a little over a year. 100% street driving, no track time. Switched to PSS about 6 months ago, 1 track day and a decent amount of street miles in that time.

The PSS are the more practical choice, because they wear better, are better in the wet, have a better warranty, and were cheaper. However, I have not been blown away by the PSS' performance compared to the RE11s. As others have said, I think the RE11s just have better overall dry grip.

My primary issue with the PSS is that they do not give me the same confidence in the dry as the RE11s. I find that they tend to squirm around a lot, which is a little unsettling at high speeds. The PSS' seem to have a much softer sidewall compared to the RE11s, which I think causes some of the issues. I have played around with tire pressures a lot and still can't get the PSS to perform the same in the dry as the RE11s.

I can't really compare wet grip, because we haven't had significant rain here since I switched to the PSS', but I never had any traction or hydroplaning issues with the RE11s in the wet at normal freeway speeds. Road noise is subjective, but I haven't noticed a significant difference in noise between the two tire types.

Don't get me wrong, the PSS is still a very good tire. I think it is the best compromise tire for a car that is mostly street driven, with very light track duty. If you get beyond a novice level at the track, you should probably run something better, ideally a dedicated track tire. The RE11 or AD08 may let you run longer and harder at the track, but they are still both compromise tires.

I believe that both the RE11s and AD08s have recently revised compounds, so they may be closer in wear and wet performance to the PSS. The new compounds haven't been out that long, so I don't think there's a ton of feedback on them at this point. Just something you may want to look into.
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      02-02-2014, 10:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
As someone else mentioned, I think you were overdriving them. I have a couple of autocrosses on mine and they don't show any signs of wear. It's a popular tire for that exact kind of use and people are not complaining in droves about it.

Feel free to try the AD-08R, but you'll probably see the same thing. You need to adjust your technique.
At a one day BMW CCA car control clinic?
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      02-02-2014, 10:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
Due to the rules, the PSS is the tire of choice and the winner of the Tire Rack 1 Lap of America for the past few years -which is extremely demanding. Plenty of E9X M3s, Vipers, and heavy GTRs have done the entire event on the same set of tires without crippling issues.

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http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ght=PSS&page=6
Post #113. Mine looked something like this.
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      02-02-2014, 11:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White 13 View Post
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ght=PSS&page=6
Post #113. Mine looked something like this.
Not really that surprised given stock camber. Insides of the tire had virtually no wear. Really need camber on the front of heavy strut cars.
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