BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
PYSPEED
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-19-2011, 10:04 AM   #1
Voodooking
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: Vauxhall Astra Coupe SE2
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Posts: 47
iTrader: (0)

How Reliable are M DCT Transmissions?

I'm coming from a Manual E46 M3, looking at DCT E90 M3's, and SMG E60 M5's.

One problem that I've noticed with the SMG III in the M5's is that the clutch wears out in a relatively short space of time. For example 30k to 40k miles seems to be average.

Replacement seems to cost an arm and a leg, and the flywheel, release bearings etc. must be replaced at the same time, which can cost approx £2000 which isn't covered by warranty.

My question is, is clutch replacement going to be necessary on an E90 M3 DCT also? I realise that they are a completely different transmission made from completely different technology, but will I need to budget for replacing the clutches in the DCT also, or is it not something I even need to think about?
Voodooking is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 10:19 AM   #2
w00tw00t
Lieutenant Colonel
 
w00tw00t's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Seattle

Posts: 1,623
iTrader: (11)

i'm curious about this too -- does it make sense to somehow try and get the DCT clutches replaced before the warranty expires??
w00tw00t is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 10:40 AM   #3
sameh
Major
 
sameh's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 DCT JetBlk
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NC

Posts: 1,466
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by w00tw00t View Post
i'm curious about this too -- does it make sense to somehow try and get the DCT clutches replaced before the warranty expires??
There is a thread about DCT longevity. As far as I remember no one reported the need to replace the clutches so far. BUT how do you propose that we change the clutches before warranty is up? Just walk in to the dealer and demand replacement?
__________________
2011 E92 BatMobile JtBlk/Blk/Blk CF
sameh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 10:44 AM   #4
Mr C
Captain
 
Mr C's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 Dakar and E90 AW
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SoCal

Posts: 754
iTrader: (0)

Do a search, there are a number of posts on the subject.

They seemed to have ironed-out the LAG issue, so I’m convinced they are good. I currently have all Six Speed M cars, but I just order an E90 with a DCT.

I know one thing, when you order the car with a DCT, it is only a 3k option, but if it does ever crap-out, they can’t fix it (Porsche Included) they have to replace it, which is $13,000. Several have found the part number.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 Alpine White M-DCT
2011 E92 M3 Individual Dakar 6MT
Mr C is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 10:52 AM   #5
Prince_of_Persia
Colonel
 
Prince_of_Persia's Avatar
 
Drives: 6MT E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC

Posts: 2,377
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakar92 View Post
Do a search, there are a number of posts on the subject.

They seemed to have ironed-out the LAG issue, so I’m convinced they are good. I currently have all Six Speed M cars, but I just order an E90 with a DCT.

I know one thing, when you order the car with a DCT, it is only a 3k option, but if it does ever crap-out, they can’t fix it (Porsche Included) they have to replace it, which is $13,000. Several have found the part number.
$13K ? are you sure!? that's expensive!
In that case 6MT should be way cheaper to fix, right?

(please don't start about 6MT vs DCT here again, just curious about repair price for 6MT and DCT)
__________________

AW|FR 6MT E92 ///M3
Prince_of_Persia is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 10:57 AM   #6
Wah
Red Hot Riplet
 
Wah's Avatar
 
Drives: '15 F82 M4
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NJ

Posts: 1,373
iTrader: (1)

yes.
Wah is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 10:58 AM   #7
ajminn
Private
 
Drives: e90 m3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC

Posts: 66
iTrader: (0)

I've been quoted 13k for a DCT transmission replacement and 8k for a 6mt replacement. But... with 6mt, they can repair/replace parts instead of having to replace the entire transmission. Or at least that's what I was told by a SA.
ajminn is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 10:59 AM   #8
SenorFunkyPants
Colonel
 
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 2,383
iTrader: (0)

The fact that there seems to be no reports of wear related failing of DCT clutches or the DCT itself is a good indication for long term reliability.
SenorFunkyPants is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 11:07 AM   #9
Mr C
Captain
 
Mr C's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 Dakar and E90 AW
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SoCal

Posts: 754
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia View Post
$13K ? are you sure!? that's expensive!
In that case 6MT should be way cheaper to fix, right?

(please don't start about 6MT vs DCT here again, just curious about repair price for 6MT and DCT)
Yes, after several people on here investigated, they found and posted that the DCT was not repairable, and the cost after warranty was $13,000. Also, I investigated on several Porsche sites, and found the same thing for their PDK. Hey, I hope it isn’t true, since I just ordered a DCT.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 Alpine White M-DCT
2011 E92 M3 Individual Dakar 6MT
Mr C is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 11:08 AM   #10
Mr C
Captain
 
Mr C's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 Dakar and E90 AW
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SoCal

Posts: 754
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajminn View Post
I've been quoted 13k for a DCT transmission replacement and 8k for a 6mt replacement. But... with 6mt, they can repair/replace parts instead of having to replace the entire transmission. Or at least that's what I was told by a SA.
See, there you go, confirmed!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 Alpine White M-DCT
2011 E92 M3 Individual Dakar 6MT
Mr C is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 11:45 AM   #11
elh0102
Captain
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA

Posts: 704
iTrader: (0)

There is a reason I never use Launch! Regardless of suggestions to the contrary, any idiot who has ever done any car work (and we know there are lots of those!) knows it is very stressful to the parts. I have no supporting data, but I believe the clutches in a DCT transmission that is not abused will last longer than most folks will own the car, and longer than most clutches in a conventional MT.
__________________
2011 Space Gray Coupe, DCT, ZCP, StopTech ST-60/ST-40 BBK.
elh0102 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 12:03 PM   #12
sameh
Major
 
sameh's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 DCT JetBlk
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NC

Posts: 1,466
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia View Post
$13K ? are you sure!? that's expensive!
In that case 6MT should be way cheaper to fix, right?

(please don't start about 6MT vs DCT here again, just curious about repair price for 6MT and DCT)
Thank you for reminding every body not to make this a 6MT Vs DCT thread, there is a ton of them already, plus we all know DCT is better
__________________
2011 E92 BatMobile JtBlk/Blk/Blk CF
sameh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 12:23 PM   #13
FLOSS M
///M3
 
FLOSS M's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NJ

Posts: 346
iTrader: (0)

Thumbs up

Sounds expensive either way.......Just lease it and give it back before warranty is up
FLOSS M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 12:33 PM   #14
Sandye90m3
Captain
 
Sandye90m3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Little bit of a random question. But I love my m3, however at 13k KMs I had to get my transmission replaced. They replaced it under warranty and the car still didn't feel right so I gave it back to them and they replaced it yet again. Now what if this happens to me when my car is out if warranty? Is it possible to tell them to convert my DCT m3 into a Manual? I wouldn't think it would be to hard, I mean they are literally taking out my whole transmission.
__________________
M3.e90 JZB blacked out.coded
Sandye90m3 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 01:04 PM   #15
muwarrior07
Private
 
muwarrior07's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany

Posts: 66
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
Thank you for reminding every body not to make this a 6MT Vs DCT thread, there is a ton of them already, plus we all know 6MT is better
Corrected
muwarrior07 is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 01:20 PM   #16
piloto
Captain
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 - AW/FR
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

Posts: 835
iTrader: (0)

Keep in mind that with the DCT you also have an electronics module that controls the hydraulics that essentially allow the DCT to complete its gear shifts. That ECU can also have problems of its own, and can be replaced if necessary. If you're that concerned, research what the cost of replacement is, and see if any of BMW's extended warranties cover it, as certain electronic components are not covered (i.e. ask if it's legally considered a part of the car's drivetrain by BMW or whomever the warrantor is).

For reference, on VW's DSG, there were a few instances where the Mechatronic unit (aka the DSG's ECU) malfunctioned and had to be replaced. If I recall correctly, that unit cost around $1500 USD, but took from 4-8 weeks for delivery, so if it's your only car, and BMW's leadtimes are similar, and assuming the unit does in fact fail, that might be something to consider.

Taking all of that into consideration, if you're planning on buying the car used or new and keeping it for a long time, assume that anything can go wrong and in some case it can cost a good chunk of money to fix. You might be expecting the DCT to be problematic, but it could just as easily be a problem with the S65 engine, central electronics, or M differential, and all of them will cost a good amount of money to repair or replace.
piloto is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 01:30 PM   #17
Mjolnir
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011 M3 Le Mans Blue ZCP DCT
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Virginia

Posts: 264
iTrader: (0)

You are covered if anything goes wrong in the first 4yr/48,000 miles, but for anyone wanting to insure the risk beyond that, wouldn't the extended warranty cover it?
Mjolnir is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 03:43 PM   #18
calintexas
Major
 
calintexas's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Texas

Posts: 1,416
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjolnir View Post
You are covered if anything goes wrong in the first 4yr/48,000 miles, but for anyone wanting to insure the risk beyond that, wouldn't the extended warranty cover it?
The BMW extended warranty would for sure. I'm certainly planning to get the BMW extended warranty if I still have the car at the time.

Sticky is blazing the "rebuild your M-DCT" trail. There's lots of information in his M3 DCT Build Journal thread in the S65 forum on another site. It's definitely worth looking at. There's lots of pictures of the transmission's insides there.
__________________
calintexas is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 05:06 PM   #19
rzm3
Moderator
 
rzm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 4,601
iTrader: (14)

As far as I know you cannot separately purchase DCT internals. You'd have to send your transmission to an authorized rebuilder or purchase a new one.

And based on my understanding of the M-DCT, aka GETRAG Powershift® 7DCI600, it is designed for up to 9000 RPM with torque up to 600 N-m (443 lb-ft).

The reason why BMW/GETRAG chose a seemingly over designed transmission is because it is the first of its kind on a BMW car. Therefore, additional design margin/safety factor is added to mitigate any unforeseen stresses/loads/fatigue.

In sum, the M-DCT does appear to be a beefy design.

I guess only time will tell if these Powershift® 7DCI600 really hold up in a few years when more total miles are accumulated through all the M3s, new M5s, etc.
__________________
E92 M3 DCT - AiM EVO4 Data Logger / AiM SmartyCam HD / KW Competition 2-Way / OMP ARS Racing Seats / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete
rzm3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 05:12 PM   #20
kaykay
Lieutenant Colonel
 
kaykay's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,770
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Some basics on the DCT transmission:

1) Cannot be opened, if it breaks the entire tranny needs to be replaced. It's a BMW/Getrag thing - they don't let anyone open them. Computer diagnostics is where it ends.

2) Transmission itself (part) costs $12,000 - with labor you're looking at $14-$16k for a replacement.

3) It's a pretty solid transmission from what I've read/experienced/heard, if you plan on purchasing your car I would certainly invest in the extended warranty to avoid a potentially very expensive repair on the tranny.
__________________
'12 CLS550 Palladium Silver - loaded
'11 E92 M3 ZCP - SG/B-EXT/CF, M-DCT, loaded
'11 E93 328i, BSM over Saddle Brown, sport, loaded
'08 550i M-Sport, Carbon Black (Gone but not forgotten), '06 W211 E55 AMG (Gone, miss this animal),'01 E39 540i Sport
kaykay is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2011, 06:07 PM   #21
Crazy Bimmer
The Jesal
 
Crazy Bimmer's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago IL

Posts: 5,830
iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to Crazy Bimmer
Real OEM lists it as $9,749. So does that mean the price of the unit has gone down in recent years?

Not as if thats chump change either way.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...00&hg=28&fg=05
__________________
2009 E90 M3 - SOLD
Crazy Bimmer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-21-2011, 04:11 AM   #22
Blind Sheep
Registered
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA

Posts: 1
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaykay View Post
Some basics on the DCT transmission:

1) Cannot be opened, if it breaks the entire tranny needs to be replaced. It's a BMW/Getrag thing - they don't let anyone open them. Computer diagnostics is where it ends.

2) Transmission itself (part) costs $12,000 - with labor you're looking at $14-$16k for a replacement.

3) It's a pretty solid transmission from what I've read/experienced/heard, if you plan on purchasing your car I would certainly invest in the extended warranty to avoid a potentially very expensive repair on the tranny.
The transmission can and already has been upgraded: DCT upgrades
Blind Sheep is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:01 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST