6MT WTF - did something just break?

saeedg48 · 03-19-2011, 03:08 AM

Okay it's pretty late so this is going to be sloppy;

driving home 12:30AM. cars fully warmed up. Engage first gear moving along to 4,000RPMs full throttle on my way up to 6,000RPMs and all of a sudden I hear a boom!

I look down and the shifters in the neutral position.

Basically the car popped itself out of 1st gear..

My first thoughts; did I just blow something up or drive into a dead cow on the road...

Seriously WTF just happened. I'm definitely not a noob when it comes to driving stick..

OC3 · 03-19-2011, 03:42 AM

Wait & see if it happens again (I gather it didn't happen again on the way home).

Shmelgy · 03-19-2011, 04:00 AM

Maybe you weren't completely engaged in 1st? This hasn't happened to me in my car but in my cousins z4m, if you don't push the shifter all the way forward and you floor it, it pops back out into neutral. His shifter is kind of loose and fucked up so that could be the problem. Yours could be something else, just stating my experience with this.

Seattle S65B40 · 03-19-2011, 04:03 AM

You didn't fully engage it. The gears can be cranky. Pull harder.

TysonRa · 03-19-2011, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40

You didn't fully engage it. The gears can be cranky. Pull harder.

gthal · 03-19-2011, 05:52 AM

It just popped out of gear... has happened to me on other cars in the past because the gear wasn't fully engaged. I bet everything is fine.

jmflukeiii · 03-19-2011, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gthal

It just popped out of gear... has happened to me on other cars in the past because the gear wasn't fully engaged. I bet everything is fine.

Agreed, did that once in a 330ci... scared the sh** out of me, but just went on to resume normal driving.

GreasyGinzo · 03-19-2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40

You didn't fully engage it. The gears can be cranky. Push harder.

Fixed....1st gear is up

mdosu · 03-19-2011, 07:10 AM

no big deal, probably didn't do much damage, the gear probably crunched a little though...

Team Plutonium · 03-19-2011, 08:51 AM

Yeah, others said it already... sounds like first gear wasn't fully engaged.

Krozi · 03-19-2011, 09:10 AM

Inbeforetheshouldhavegottendct!

Dave07997S · 03-19-2011, 10:56 AM

Thats the synchors pushing the tranny out of 1st gear as you didn't fully engage it. If it continues to happen you may have a bad synchro in the tranny. It just sounds like to me as others have said that you weren't fully in gear.

Dave

Seattle S65B40 · 03-19-2011, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreasyGinzo

Fixed....1st gear is up

haha

elp_jc · 03-19-2011, 12:20 PM

Yep, not in gear all the way. This car is especially tricky, since on most other cars the lever goes in maybe 50% (falsely), so if you're familiar with the car, you can tell right away it's not in all the way. But with the M3 is like 75% IMO, so easier to think it's in when it's not. When that happens, I quickly shift to 2nd then back to 1st and that has always solved the issue. Or releasing the clutch quickly in N then engaging 1st again right away.

By the way, when that happens is that the gears stopped, aligned right against each other (not common). Best way to avoid that altogether is to quickly engage 1st after pushing the clutch pedal in, so the input shaft is still turning. You have like a second to put the tranny in gear before shaft stops. Hope this helps.

MVF4Rrider · 03-19-2011, 12:32 PM

check your engine mounts. BMW engine mounts suck.

kenwelch · 03-19-2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elp_jc

You have like a second to put the tranny in gear before shaft stops. Hope this helps.

The centrifugal force of the rotating clutch disc at 4000 to 6000 rpm (engine speed) will keep the input shaft and counter shaft (first input gear) spinning for longer than 1 second. The spinning weight takes a while to spin to a full stop. The first output gear is rotating at drive shaft speed.
When shifting gears the clutch disc does not stop spinning.

For the OP:
The synchronizer ring (blocker ring) will not cause the synchronizer sleeve and shifter to “pop” back to neutral, not fully engaging the gear selected will cause the sudden disengagement. Your problem was the sleeve (green in the animation) was not full engaged with the clutch teeth on first gear.

Here is a flash animation of the synchronizer operation from TomBirch.com:
http://tombirch.com/3/flash/Synchronizer_Operation.swf

Tom is a friend that has done an outstanding job of creating instructional flash animations that I use in class….great textbooks also.

Ken Welch, Instructor
Power Train / Automatic Transmissions
Saddleback College

elp_jc · 03-20-2011, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenwelch

The centrifugal force of the rotating clutch disc at 4000 to 6000 rpm (engine speed) will keep the input shaft and counter shaft (first input gear) spinning for longer than 1 second.

Thought he was talking about engaging 1st when stopped

. Sorry about the brain fart

.

dajimba · 03-20-2011, 03:09 AM

That used to happy to me in my e46 m3... it turned out my clutch was slipping...

jonasaurus · 03-20-2011, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dajimba

That used to happy to me in my e46 m3... it turned out my clutch was slipping...

+1
If its not the fact that the gear wasn't engaged I'd be suggesting clutch

///My5UV · 03-20-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider

check your engine mounts. BMW engine mounts suck.

Check transmission mounts, too.

12:03 · 03-21-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenwelch

The centrifugal force of the rotating clutch disc at 4000 to 6000 rpm (engine speed) will keep the input shaft and counter shaft (first input gear) spinning for longer than 1 second. The spinning weight takes a while to spin to a full stop. The first output gear is rotating at drive shaft speed.
When shifting gears the clutch disc does not stop spinning.

For the OP:
The synchronizer ring (blocker ring) will not cause the synchronizer sleeve and shifter to “pop” back to neutral, not fully engaging the gear selected will cause the sudden disengagement. Your problem was the sleeve (green in the animation) was not full engaged with the clutch teeth on first gear.

Here is a flash animation of the synchronizer operation from TomBirch.com:
http://tombirch.com/3/flash/Synchronizer_Operation.swf

Tom is a friend that has done an outstanding job of creating instructional flash animations that I use in class….great textbooks also.

Ken Welch, Instructor
Power Train / Automatic Transmissions
Saddleback College

Great post. Interesting to me that a powertrain instructor such as yourself would have a DCT car. Care to comment? I am close to a purchase and still debate the transmissions (but do NOT intend to start a DCT vs 6MT thread) I had SMG in my E46 M3 which was good, but I always missed the MT from my E36 M3...

03-19-2011, 03:08 AM	#1
saeedg48 Brigadier General Drives: 2008 6MT E90 M3 & 2012 CLS63 P Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Unknown Posts: 3,354 iTrader: (1)	6MT WTF - did something just break? Okay it's pretty late so this is going to be sloppy; driving home 12:30AM. cars fully warmed up. Engage first gear moving along to 4,000RPMs full throttle on my way up to 6,000RPMs and all of a sudden I hear a boom! I look down and the shifters in the neutral position. Basically the car popped itself out of 1st gear.. My first thoughts; did I just blow something up or drive into a dead cow on the road... Seriously WTF just happened. I'm definitely not a noob when it comes to driving stick.. __________________ _______________ Last edited by saeedg48; 07-28-2011 at 07:54 PM.
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03-19-2011, 03:42 AM	#2
OC3 Havin' a blast! Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 3,730 iTrader: (0)	Wait & see if it happens again (I gather it didn't happen again on the way home). __________________ 2013 E92 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP 2011 E90 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP (Gone - traded in) 2008 E90 M3 Jerez Black 6MT (Gone - End of Lease)

03-19-2011, 04:00 AM	#3
Shmelgy B.E. Drives: E92 M3 & 1969 Mustang Fastback Join Date: May 2010 Location: City of Angels Posts: 223 iTrader: (1)	Maybe you weren't completely engaged in 1st? This hasn't happened to me in my car but in my cousins z4m, if you don't push the shifter all the way forward and you floor it, it pops back out into neutral. His shifter is kind of loose and fucked up so that could be the problem. Yours could be something else, just stating my experience with this. __________________ Melbourne Red, Black non-extended, 6MT, ZCP, ZPP, ZTP, Alarm, Heated Seats, PDC, Auto High Beams Alpine 10,000k angels, Revinora R-CRT front lip, Revinora rear diffuser, 18/15mm BMS Spacers, Primary cat delete + Megan Racing exhaust + OETune, Gloss Black ZCPs, etc.

03-19-2011, 04:03 AM	#4
Seattle S65B40 Major Drives: 2008 e92 M3 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: PNW Posts: 1,398 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	You didn't fully engage it. The gears can be cranky. Pull harder. __________________ Club 6MT 2008 E92 M3 6MT, AW/Blk Ext., brushed aluminum 2006 E46 M3 ZCP 6MT Carbon blk/blk(sold) 2001 E46 325Xi 5MT Jet Blk/Blk (sold)

03-19-2011, 05:52 AM	#6
gthal Colonel Drives: C63 coupe Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 2,051 iTrader: (2) Garage List 2011 M3 [3.37]	It just popped out of gear... has happened to me on other cars in the past because the gear wasn't fully engaged. I bet everything is fine. __________________ 2012 C63 coupe \| Obsidian Black \| Performance Package (481hp, 443ft/lbs) 1996 E36 M3 coupe \| Estoril blue \| Dedicated track car... heavily modded 2011 M3 coupe \| Jerez Black \| ZCP/DCT \| Sold but never forgotten nor will the love affair end 2010 M3 coupe \| Alpine White \| 6MT \| Sold

03-19-2011, 07:10 AM	#9
mdosu Help! Can't decide btw MW & AW, 1st world problems Drives: 2008.99989 SSII E90 "Civic" Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 5,852 iTrader: (4)	no big deal, probably didn't do much damage, the gear probably crunched a little though... __________________ Yes, that's a xmas tree in my trunk

03-19-2011, 08:51 AM	#10
Team Plutonium Major General Drives: 911 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate Posts: 8,456 iTrader: (1)	Yeah, others said it already... sounds like first gear wasn't fully engaged. __________________ Gone... ESS VT2-625 \| ESS Tune \| M24 Oil Cooler \| Brembo 380mm BBK \| Dinan 4.10 Diff \| KW Variant 3 Coilovers \| Dinan Camber Plates \| Dinan Strut Tower Braces \| Dinan X-Pipe \| Akrapovic Exhaust \| Vorsteiner GTS3 Bumper \| Varis System One Diffuser \| OEM Performance Spoiler \| Stack Gauges \| GTS Door Sills \| Volk TE37 \| Falken Azenis RT615K 275/315 \| Pulled Fenders \| Turner Stud Kit \| OMP ARS Racing Seats New: 991C2S

03-19-2011, 09:10 AM	#11
Krozi Deutsche Jung aus Kölle Drives: 2008 E92 ///M3 Alpine White Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: SoFla - Bonita Springs Posts: 2,698 iTrader: (20)	Inbeforetheshouldhavegottendct! __________________ 2008 E92 ///M3 Alpine White//Fox Red//6MT// Florida Bimmer - Join us on FaceBook!

03-19-2011, 10:56 AM	#12
Dave07997S Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2011 BMW M3 ZCP Coupe Join Date: May 2009 Location: Playa del Rey, CA Posts: 1,972 iTrader: (0)	Thats the synchors pushing the tranny out of 1st gear as you didn't fully engage it. If it continues to happen you may have a bad synchro in the tranny. It just sounds like to me as others have said that you weren't fully in gear. Dave __________________ 2011 M3 Coupe-MR/Blk Turner Test Pipes, AFE pulley, Megan Catback/AFE Stg.2. 255/285 tires. Previous Rides: 2007 Porsche 997C2S Speed Yellow/Blk sport seats 2004 BMW M3 Imola/Blk

03-19-2011, 12:20 PM	#14
elp_jc Brigadier General Drives: . Join Date: May 2008 Location: . Posts: 4,912 iTrader: (0)	Yep, not in gear all the way. This car is especially tricky, since on most other cars the lever goes in maybe 50% (falsely), so if you're familiar with the car, you can tell right away it's not in all the way. But with the M3 is like 75% IMO, so easier to think it's in when it's not. When that happens, I quickly shift to 2nd then back to 1st and that has always solved the issue. Or releasing the clutch quickly in N then engaging 1st again right away. By the way, when that happens is that the gears stopped, aligned right against each other (not common). Best way to avoid that altogether is to quickly engage 1st after pushing the clutch pedal in, so the input shaft is still turning. You have like a second to put the tranny in gear before shaft stops. Hope this helps.

03-19-2011, 12:32 PM	#15
MVF4Rrider PCA, BMWCCA Drives: 997S, MV Agusta F4, E46 M3 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 2,060 iTrader: (0)	check your engine mounts. BMW engine mounts suck. __________________ '08 Carrera S 6MT Guards Red/Black ext leather, Carbon fiber pkg, sport exh, sport chrono +, PASM, Nav, Bose, 19" forged turbos, red tranny tunnel '07 MV Agusta F4 1000 R 1+1, Corse Red/Silver, RG3 race pipes and factory race ECU

03-20-2011, 03:09 AM	#18
dajimba Private Drives: 2006 m6 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: niagara falls Posts: 60 iTrader: (0)	That used to happy to me in my e46 m3... it turned out my clutch was slipping...

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