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      03-18-2011, 10:12 AM   #89
Sean05
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im not even going to start about 6MT or DCT.... all im going to say to the OP is dont skip gear.... its bad and its not good for your tranny.

blip it when your downshifting (oh try doing this when your in corners its fun)... dont need that when upshifting....

dude forget what people are saying... they will argue all day on whos right and wrong... funny none of them are pro drivers... just have fun and try a little thing here and there with the car... and you will get it sooner than you think...

GOODLUCK..
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      03-18-2011, 10:37 AM   #90
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im not even going to start about 6MT or DCT.... all im going to say to the OP is dont skip gear.... its bad and its not good for your tranny.

blip it when your downshifting (oh try doing this when your in corners its fun)... dont need that when upshifting....

dude forget what people are saying... they will argue all day on whos right and wrong... funny none of them are pro drivers... just have fun and try a little thing here and there with the car... and you will get it sooner than you think...

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      03-18-2011, 10:56 AM   #91
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blip it when your downshifting (oh try doing this when your in corners its fun)... dont need that when upshifting....
You're joking right?
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      03-18-2011, 11:33 AM   #92
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You're joking right?
You don't think drifting is fun?

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      03-18-2011, 11:43 AM   #93
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You don't think drifting is fun?

CA
It is fun to watch, I'm yet to accomplish a long enough one. Still working on it. Tomorrow will be the first day I'll take the M3 to track. I have a feeling it is easier to control it than Z4 MC.

Back to the point, I'm not sure messing with clutch is a good way to upset the balance of the car and hence start a drift. Aren't you suppose to be done with your braking and shifting before you corner? I take the drifting as a way of cornering.
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      03-18-2011, 12:36 PM   #94
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It is fun to watch, I'm yet to accomplish a long enough one. Still working on it. Tomorrow will be the first day I'll take the M3 to track. I have a feeling it is easier to control it than Z4 MC.

Back to the point, I'm not sure messing with clutch is a good way to upset the balance of the car and hence start a drift. Aren't you suppose to be done with your braking and shifting before you corner? I take the drifting as a way of cornering.
I was being sarcastic.

Downshifting in the middle of a turn is never a good idea as it can cause trailing clutch oversteer (TCO). On a track downshifting and threshold braking is done while the car is going straight. You can prgressively release the brakes (trail brake) as you go around the curve. This technique can be used to mildly rotate the car and help get it pointed in the right direction.

A drift can be initialted by snapping off the accellerator to break the rear tires loose and then applying enough throttle to keep them spinning. By modulating the throttle and the steering a drift can be held throughout the corner. This not really something that is done in track driving as it may look spectacular but is by no means the fastest way to get around a turn.

The best place to practice is on a wet skid pad.

CA
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      03-18-2011, 01:18 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I was being sarcastic.

Downshifting in the middle of a turn is never a good idea as it can cause trailing clutch oversteer (TCO). On a track downshifting and threshold braking is done while the car is going straight. You can prgressively release the brakes (trail brake) as you go around the curve. This technique can be used to mildly rotate the car and help get it pointed in the right direction.

A drift can be initialted by snapping off the accellerator to break the rear tires loose and then applying enough throttle to keep them spinning. By modulating the throttle and the steering a drift can be held throughout the corner. This not really something that is done in track driving as it may look spectacular but is by no means the fastest way to get around a turn.

The best place to practice is on a wet skid pad.

CA
Skip Barber graduate?
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      03-18-2011, 01:46 PM   #96
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Cool video with some great shots of some excellent footwork with a 6MT M3.
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      03-18-2011, 01:56 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I was being sarcastic.

Downshifting in the middle of a turn is never a good idea as it can cause trailing clutch oversteer (TCO). On a track downshifting and threshold braking is done while the car is going straight. You can prgressively release the brakes (trail brake) as you go around the curve. This technique can be used to mildly rotate the car and help get it pointed in the right direction.

A drift can be initialted by snapping off the accellerator to break the rear tires loose and then applying enough throttle to keep them spinning. By modulating the throttle and the steering a drift can be held throughout the corner. This not really something that is done in track driving as it may look spectacular but is by no means the fastest way to get around a turn.

The best place to practice is on a wet skid pad.

CA
Thanks for the info. There will be a wet skid pad on tomorrow's event. I will def try. It was rather hard to catch the back with Z4 MC.
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      03-18-2011, 01:59 PM   #98
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I taught my gf to revmatch last weekend when she was wearing flip flops! DCT ftw!
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      03-18-2011, 03:18 PM   #99
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Come on. Do you really believe the DCT in our cars is even remotely similar in function to the transmissions in F1 cars? If so, I'm sure you're the demographic BMW's marketers are looking for.

The F1 transmissions and engine management systems are uniquely tuned for one purpose; racing a high downforce, high power/weight extremely high tech, missile.

Don't fool yourself. The DCT is designed to get groceries.
Wait, you've missed the point. I'm not comparing M3 DCT to F1 tranny. What I'm comparing is F1 manual to F1 paddle shifter (similar to M3's 6MT-vs-DCT), and the reason (all the benefits) for F1 cars all using paddle shifters now.
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      03-18-2011, 03:44 PM   #100
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It is fun to watch, I'm yet to accomplish a long enough one. Still working on it. Tomorrow will be the first day I'll take the M3 to track. I have a feeling it is easier to control it than Z4 MC.

Back to the point, I'm not sure messing with clutch is a good way to upset the balance of the car and hence start a drift. Aren't you suppose to be done with your braking and shifting before you corner? I take the drifting as a way of cornering.
There are many different techniques for initiating drifts and, on manual tranny, clutch-kick is used quite often (pulling the e-brake, after stepping on the clutch, being the other common techique). Clutch-kick (while on throttle) at 2nd or 3rd gear is similar to reving at standstill in 1st gear and dropping the clutch, except you're obviously doing it while moving (and, w/ steering wheel turned). Say you're on 2nd gear at 5,000 rpm, while remaining on throttle, you step on the clutch & release it quickly (hence, "kick"). The moment you step on the clutch, the rpm shoots up. The engine rotational speed now is much higher than the wheel rotational speed. Then, you release the clutch and now the engine and tranny re-engage and the wheels now suddenly lose grip because they're shocked into a sudden increase in rotational speed. And, because the steering wheel was turned, the tailend comes out nicely. Works really well on M3's (DSC turned off, of course).

DCT's obviously not having a driver-kickable clutch, (again, w/ DSC turned off) you just turn and get on the throttle. How much throttle depends on the situation, but when done right, you'll get the tailend coming out just as nicely. This guy is in a DCT M3:

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      03-18-2011, 05:32 PM   #101
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There are many different techniques for initiating drifts and, on manual tranny, clutch-kick is used quite often (pulling the e-brake, after stepping on the clutch, being the other common techique). Clutch-kick (while on throttle) at 2nd or 3rd gear is similar to reving at standstill in 1st gear and dropping the clutch, except you're obviously doing it while moving (and, w/ steering wheel turned). Say you're on 2nd gear at 5,000 rpm, while remaining on throttle, you step on the clutch & release it quickly (hence, "kick"). The moment you step on the clutch, the rpm shoots up. The engine rotational speed now is much higher than the wheel rotational speed. Then, you release the clutch and now the engine and tranny re-engage and the wheels now suddenly lose grip because they're shocked into a sudden increase in rotational speed. And, because the steering wheel was turned, the tailend comes out nicely. Works really well on M3's (DSC turned off, of course).

DCT's obviously not having a driver-kickable clutch, (again, w/ DSC turned off) you just turn and get on the throttle. How much throttle depends on the situation, but when done right, you'll get the tailend coming out just as nicely. This guy is in a DCT M3:
Hey thanks for the info! Sucks to be a clutch
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      03-18-2011, 06:51 PM   #102
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Quote:
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Wait, you've missed the point. I'm not comparing M3 DCT to F1 tranny. What I'm comparing is F1 manual to F1 paddle shifter (similar to M3's 6MT-vs-DCT), and the reason (all the benefits) for F1 cars all using paddle shifters now.
No. I don't think I missed the point.
You're comparing a manual F1 car vs a computer controlled F1 car.
I'm comparing a grocery getter manual M3 to a grocery getter DCT. The former two are both F1 cars. They are designed for only one thing; getting around a track. The computers have only one goal, racing. With the DCT, the transmission is programmed first and foremost for getting groceries; with secondary priority being track use.

Please don't buy into the ///Marketing hype.
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      03-18-2011, 07:14 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
Wait, you've missed the point. I'm not comparing M3 DCT to F1 tranny. What I'm comparing is F1 manual to F1 paddle shifter (similar to M3's 6MT-vs-DCT), and the reason (all the benefits) for F1 cars all using paddle shifters now.
No. I don't think I missed the point.
You're comparing a manual F1 car vs a computer controlled F1 car.
I'm comparing a grocery getter manual M3 to a grocery getter DCT. The former two are both F1 cars. They are designed for only one thing; getting around a track. The computers have only one goal, racing. With the DCT, the transmission is programmed first and foremost for getting groceries; with secondary priority being track use.

Please don't buy into the ///Marketing hype.
So you'd rather call the 414HP M3 a grocery getter than admitting that DCT is better. Wow
So what would Toyota camry, Honda accord, Lexus (any of them), passat,..,.. Be?? To take the trash out? Or for mail box trips??
With all due respect, E9x M3 is NOT a grocery getter. I hope your weekend is better than your sour experience with 2008 DCT!
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      03-18-2011, 07:21 PM   #104
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So you'd rather call the 414HP M3 a grocery getter than admitting that DCT is better.
The automatic M3 is a FAST grocery getter .

Oh, and don't forget your glorified automatic transmisison (a.k.a. DCT) is now available on Ford Fiestas . Looking forward to what link you find with F1 on that car .
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      03-18-2011, 07:32 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
So you'd rather call the 414HP M3 a grocery getter than admitting that DCT is better.
The automatic M3 is a FAST grocery getter .

Oh, and don't forget your glorified automatic transmisison (a.k.a. DCT) is now available on Ford Fiestas . Looking forward to what link you find with F1 on that car .
You people just can't get over the fact that with all the technology and money F1 teams have they found that manual trany EVEN IN THE HANDS OF THE BEST DRIVERS is a hinder, is slower, is inadequate. But hay, who the
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      03-18-2011, 07:32 PM   #106
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The automatic M3 is a FAST grocery getter .

Oh, and don't forget your glorified automatic transmisison (a.k.a. DCT) is now available on Ford Fiestas . Looking forward to what link you find with F1 on that car .
And don't forget that your MT was available on the 1962 Volkswagen Beetle (the one with 38HP), Of course only real men drove those.

CA
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      03-19-2011, 03:38 AM   #107
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No. I don't think I missed the point.
You're comparing a manual F1 car vs a computer controlled F1 car.
I'm comparing a grocery getter manual M3 to a grocery getter DCT. The former two are both F1 cars. They are designed for only one thing; getting around a track. The computers have only one goal, racing. With the DCT, the transmission is programmed first and foremost for getting groceries; with secondary priority being track use.

Please don't buy into the ///Marketing hype.
Man, this just drags on & on... Permutations galore. What were we talking about it again?
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      03-19-2011, 03:56 AM   #108
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Please not another DCT vs 6MT. Wow..

Have fun OP!!
hahahahhaha
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      03-19-2011, 07:22 AM   #109
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And don't forget that your MT was available on the 1962 Volkswagen Beetle (the one with 38HP), Of course only real men drove those.

CA
Winning! That was great.... I'm sick of this dumb ass sh**t. F off if you like your 6mt better than DCT. that's great, but no need to make someone feel shitty for having it. I mean really are you that much of a pu**y that you all feel the need to constantly put down everyone else for their choices with their cars? Its absurd; your 6mt doesn't make you a man. And if the 6mt is really the sportier transmission and thats your reason for getting it, then why the f would you get a sedan!??
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      03-19-2011, 09:38 AM   #110
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You people just can't get over the fact that with all the technology and money F1 teams have they found that manual trany EVEN IN THE HANDS OF THE BEST DRIVERS is a hinder, is slower, is inadequate. But hay, who the
What's funny here, is that nobody said, or has ever said, that manual transmissions are better for F1. We all know the computer controlled sequential transmissions are better for F1.

What's even funnier are the folks that think the automatic in their M3 has some kind of bloodline to the F1 transmissions. It's a freakin' automatic with programming to keep all the paddle flapping F1 wannabees safe while they drive back and forth to pick up groceries. It's functionality and programming is completely different from an F1 transmission.

And that, folks, is why I'm happier driving a manual transmission at 10/10ths than the DCT. I know the transmission is going to do what I want it to do, instead of what some committee in Germany thinks it should do.
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