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      03-17-2011, 10:19 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
In any case, what I'm lulzing about is all this talk about how satisfying doing it well is. Come on, it's no monumental achievement. It's not a difficult thing to do. After doing it a thousand times, it's like... meh.
I've been rev matching for over 10 years. It's still just as enjoyable and satisfying as the first time I ever got it right. The M3's throttle response makes it more fun than most of the past cars I've owned. No need to troll a 6Mt thread.
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      03-17-2011, 10:50 AM   #24
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Thanks a lot for all the feed back guys!
Now when I look at my tachometer before rev matching, most of the time I can do it (about 60 70% of the time, but it is absolutely fun)!! I tried it with the power mode on (as it was suggested here) and it does make it easier. Thanks for the great hint!

And I am thinking about removing the spring from my clutch pretty soon to see if it makes driving the M3 even more enjoyable.

Thanks again.
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      03-17-2011, 10:55 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
I believe many people can downshift much better than a DCT.
No...
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      03-17-2011, 10:58 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia View Post
Thanks a lot for all the feed back guys!
Now when I look at my tachometer before rev matching, most of the time I can do it (about 60 70% of the time, but it is absolutely fun)!! I tried it with the power mode on (as it was suggested here) and it does make it easier. Thanks for the great hint!

And I am thinking about removing the spring from my clutch pretty soon to see if it makes driving the M3 even more enjoyable.

Thanks again.
What does this mean? Are we closing the thread? I was hoping it would go to 6MT Vs DCT..is there anything I can do?
How about DCT is faster!!
no 6MT people accusing DCT drivers of being lazy? and claiming that they are better drivers!!
DCT people are not gloating about their 0-60 records..what happened to the universe??
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      03-17-2011, 11:06 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
What does this mean? Are we closing the thread? I was hoping it would go to 6MT Vs DCT..is there anything I can do?
How about DCT is faster!!
no 6MT people accusing DCT drivers of being lazy? and claiming that they are better drivers!!
DCT people are not gloating about their 0-60 records..what happened to the universe??
hahahah no! Please give me more hints if you have one! Don't tell me to go and buy a DCT though because I LOVE my 6MT M3!
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      03-17-2011, 11:10 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia View Post
hahahah no! Please give me more hints if you have one! Don't tell me to go and buy a DCT though because I LOVE my 6MT M3!
Damn it!! how did I miss that one?
in any case, I'm glad we all agree that DCT is far better than 6MT
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      03-17-2011, 11:15 AM   #29
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Hahaha, You want to start it again!
There you go, 6MT is more fun, you feel more connected to your car, and you have full control over your car!!!!
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      03-17-2011, 11:43 AM   #30
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is not impressed by an automatic gearbox.
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      03-17-2011, 11:50 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia View Post
Hahaha, You want to start it again!
There you go, 6MT is more fun, you feel more connected to your car, and you have full control over your car!!!!
More fun -- subjective
More connected -- well you do use your left foot
In control is where the 6MT people lose us!! We are just as in control as the 6MT. What do you think we do on S mode (D is a plus for traffic and coffee which I'm sure even MT drivers would agree).
Yeeeeaaah I think we are on.
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      03-17-2011, 12:14 PM   #32
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i can heel toe fine in my e30 which is pretty important at the track but I've been having trouble using the same method on the m3 mainly due to the fact that the brake pedal is a helluv a lot more sensitive than my e30 so I'm having trouble using the correct amount of brake pressure before blipping the throttle. I guess I just need to practice more and drive that car more often
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      03-17-2011, 12:24 PM   #33
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Even if you rev match badly, it's A LOT better than taking the lazy approach and getting an automatic . And yes, I said lazy because that's what it is <insert spoiled accent here>: too much traffic and my puny leg will get tired; I can 't text while I'm in traffic; I'd look stupid with my friends that I don't know how to drive a manual well if I don't get a DCT; I like to pretend I can drive like a pro right off the bat... Ha ha. And yes, I understand an automatic for a family car, but on a high-performance car I just don't get it.

It's exactly the same as if you let a porn star bang your SO because he's going to do it better than you. As bad as you do it, it's something you want to do do yourself, and learn how to do better, right? Same thing folks. Get a freaking 6MT while you can and enjoy having full control of your car; who the hell cares how slower than DCT you are. And yes, we all know we'll be slower than DCT, but just as the example above, I rather do the work myself than letting somebody else (or a computer) do the work for me . Now I freaking made it a 6MT vs DCT... to defend our honor . Good day gang.
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      03-17-2011, 12:31 PM   #34
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...I have yet to hear any female passengers say "ohhh you know how to drive auto" LOL.

6spd FTW.

Last edited by RossM3; 03-17-2011 at 12:41 PM.
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      03-17-2011, 12:33 PM   #35
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Just keep working at it...I have gotten to the point where I am within 100-200 RPM of where the RPMS should be.
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      03-17-2011, 12:39 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
No...
Care to elaborate.

I've owned both. I can downshift my 6sp with more control and often faster than my previous DCT.

6MT vs DCT ... Let the fun continue ...
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      03-17-2011, 12:50 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
It's exactly the same as if you let a porn star bang your SO because he's going to do it better than you. As bad as you do it, it's something you want to do do yourself, and learn how to do better, right?
OMG! This was helarious!!!!! haha Good one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RossM3 View Post
...I have yet to hear any female passengers say "ohhh you know how to drive auto" LOL.

So True

6spd FTW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krozi View Post
Just keep working at it...I have gotten to the point where I am within 100-200 RPM of where the RPMS should be.
Back to the topic, That is sweet!!! how much have you practiced so far?
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      03-17-2011, 12:52 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia View Post
Back to the topic, That is sweet!!! how much have you practiced so far?
Well the M3 is actually the car I learned stick shift on

I've only had the car for about a year now but got all the shifting shenanigans down

Still have to work on the heal-toe a bit more till I can perfect it, but other than that it's smooooth
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      03-17-2011, 12:55 PM   #39
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regarding the DCT Vs 6MT talk
6MT guys, please give some time to the DCT guys to reply
you see, they seem to suffer from some lag, so it might take them a little longer to reply
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      03-17-2011, 12:58 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
Care to elaborate.

I've owned both. I can downshift my 6sp with more control and often faster than my previous DCT.

6MT vs DCT ... Let the fun continue ...
Joe;
You rev match a 6MT good, sure....great, maybe....Perfect, unlikely but giving you the benefit of doubt
BUT faster than S5?? come on, don't insult our intelligence. No one is trying to take the "fun factor" out of the 6MT argument so please be reasonable and don't take the "Hi tech/faster factor" out of the DCT argument.. The rest of the differences (more connected, accuracy, reproducibility, convenience, Ö,Ö) are fair game
Iím not a mechanic/engineer but Iíd think to produce a perfect rev matching (every time no matter if thatís while playing chicken with a lambo coming at you 100miles/hour)
The computer calculates many factors may be (velocity, deceleration, gravity and the 2 gears youíre switching between) to come up with a specific RPM number to dial and I donít have it in me to believe that any driver can do that constantly..
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      03-17-2011, 03:29 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
Joe;
You rev match a 6MT good, sure....great, maybe....Perfect, unlikely but giving you the benefit of doubt
BUT faster than S5?? come on, don't insult our intelligence. No one is trying to take the "fun factor" out of the 6MT argument so please be reasonable and don't take the "Hi tech/faster factor" out of the DCT argument.. The rest of the differences (more connected, accuracy, reproducibility, convenience, Ö,Ö) are fair game
Iím not a mechanic/engineer but Iíd think to produce a perfect rev matching (every time no matter if thatís while playing chicken with a lambo coming at you 100miles/hour)
The computer calculates many factors may be (velocity, deceleration, gravity and the 2 gears youíre switching between) to come up with a specific RPM number to dial and I donít have it in me to believe that any driver can do that constantly..
Apparently, you haven't read the posts from DCT drivers about how long a downshift takes from the time you pull the lever until the clutch is fully engaged. I'm only speaking from first hand knowledge, so excuse me for being contrary to the ideas of everyone else. Besides, I didn't say I did it constantly. Sometimes the DCT would get it right and would bang off a quick downshift, but many if not most of the times it would make it's fun throttle blip noises then wait forever to let out the clutch. I'm sure this was related to DSC trying to keep the rear end planted, but it was slow none-the-less.
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      03-17-2011, 03:42 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karussell View Post
i don't see what you are lulzing about. rev match can be done perfectly by human. the shift speed is slower yes but the match is perfect. also do a perfect rev match 5-3 or 5-2 downshift on the DCT and tell me how that works out.
It is physically impossible or at least highly improbable to do a perfect rev match manually. An expert driver can get very close very consistantly but the process of a blip getting the clutch plates rotating at exacly the same speed when the clutch is engaged (the definition of a "perfect rev match") is at best a really good guess.

One thing that is rarely mentioned in these threads is that by not having to use your left foot to clutch it is possible to left foot brake. It took me a long time to feel comfortable doing that but once you get to the point where you are not only using the brakes to slow the car but to manage weight transfer and contact patch size left foot braking can give you an advantage. There is a reason why virtually all Formula 1 drivers and many (if not most) ALMS drivers left foot brake.

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Last edited by captainaudio; 03-17-2011 at 04:21 PM.
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      03-17-2011, 04:34 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmflukeiii View Post
Yeah you're right, who cares what other people like. I just want to hear about what you like.
I don't think my view/opinion is unique.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
Comon.. It's been like 26 hours without a 6MT Vs DCT thread.. This one has a very good potential..Please
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
What does this mean? Are we closing the thread? I was hoping it would go to 6MT Vs DCT..is there anything I can do?
How about DCT is faster!!
no 6MT people accusing DCT drivers of being lazy? and claiming that they are better drivers!!
DCT people are not gloating about their 0-60 records..what happened to the universe??



Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
better than thinking dct is perfect
Touche~


Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I've been rev matching for over 10 years. It's still just as enjoyable and satisfying as the first time I ever got it right. The M3's throttle response makes it more fun than most of the past cars I've owned. No need to troll a 6Mt thread.
It's fun, though.

Anyhow, seriously, I have no problems w/ experienced MT people insisting that MT is the way to go for them. I respect that. But, I see so many people who just barely learned to shift the stick, or have been MT'ing for a while but barely know how to heel-and-toe to rev-match, excitedly extolling the virtue of 'rowing your own boat,' going "I love how engaging it is," "I'm a 6MT kind of guy" (lolwut?), "gimme 6MT or death!," "I'm in total control" (really? you?), etc, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
More fun -- subjective
More connected -- well you do use your left foot
In control is where the 6MT people lose us!! We are just as in control as the 6MT. What do you think we do on S mode (D is a plus for traffic and coffee which I'm sure even MT drivers would agree).
Yeeeeaaah I think we are on.
Some of us left-foot brake w/ "autos." Plus, when the steering wheel is turned or upside down in certain situations, still use the center stick to shift.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
Apparently, you haven't read the posts from DCT drivers about how long a downshift takes from the time you pull the lever until the clutch is fully engaged. I'm only speaking from first hand knowledge, so excuse me for being contrary to the ideas of everyone else. Besides, I didn't say I did it constantly. Sometimes the DCT would get it right and would bang off a quick downshift, but many if not most of the times it would make it's fun throttle blip noises then wait forever to let out the clutch. I'm sure this was related to DSC trying to keep the rear end planted, but it was slow none-the-less.
Haven't driven 2008 DCT, so can't comment on that (and, perhaps 2008 DCT is the model year you're basing your experience on), but on my 2011 DCT, it snaps off quick downshifts most of the times. However, I do notice, occassionally, noticeable lag/delay in downshifts, which when happens is almost always before the car is fully warmed up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
It is physically impossible or at least highly improbable to do a perfect rev match manually. An expert driver can get very close very consistantly but the process of a blip getting the clutch plates rotating at exacly the same speed when the clutch is engaged (the definition of a "perfect rev match") is at best a really good guess.
Exactly what I'm saying.


Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
One thing that is rarely mentioned in these threads is that by not having to use your left foot to clutch it is possible to left foot brake. It took me a long time to feel comfortable doing that but once you get to the point where you are not only using the brakes to slow the car but to manage weight transfer and contact patch size left foot braking can give you an advantage. There is a reason why virtually all Formula 1 drivers and many (if not most) ALMS drivers left foot brake.

CA
Absolutely. You can connect the end of braking to start of accelerating almost seamlessly.
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Last edited by OC3; 03-17-2011 at 05:00 PM.
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      03-17-2011, 04:51 PM   #44
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How are you at heel-and-toe/rev-matching, Brian?
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