BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-07-2007, 01:32 PM   #1
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

SMG versus DSG for M3

One interesting thing is BMW didn't put a stake in the ground on the automated trannys.... If you believe Scott26's comment that not everything is final yet.... I bet that BMW is still evaluating SMG versus DSG for the new M3.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 02:05 PM   #2
DonM3
Captain
United Kingdom
6
Rep
629
Posts

 
Drives: AW e92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London

iTrader: (1)

What ever happens I would prefer either SMG or DSG available right from the start and not introduced 2 or 3 years after launch
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 02:11 PM   #3
monsta
Brigadier General
monsta's Avatar
United_States
59
Rep
3,591
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen County, NJ/Y.O, NY

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
One interesting thing is BMW didn't put a stake in the ground on the automated trannys.... If you believe Scott26's comment that not everything is final yet.... I bet that BMW is still evaluating SMG versus DSG for the new M3.

I completely agree & I hope they work out the kinks, I would hate to get DSG & then have some of the problems that the M5 boys have had w/ SMGIII & all the faults ect ect...


ps. what's up TBone didn't realize you were over here too from M5board...I'm DucatiBMW over there


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonM3 View Post
What ever happens I would prefer either SMG or DSG available right from the start and not introduced 2 or 3 years after launch
I just don't feel like being a guinea pig...
__________________

'08 E92 M3 6MT | IB | FR | RAC RG63's | VRS Ti Exhaust | Fabspeed HFC & Xpipe
'09 X5 35d SG/SB
'11 X3 28i AW/CN/FW (wife's car
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 02:24 PM   #4
DonM3
Captain
United Kingdom
6
Rep
629
Posts

 
Drives: AW e92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but whats most probable
- SMG III from the start
-DSG from the start or
-dsg introduced after 2 or 3 years?
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 02:32 PM   #5
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Burning and appropriate questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonM3 View Post
I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but whats most probable
- SMG III from the start
-DSG from the start or
-dsg introduced after 2 or 3 years?
I really want to know this as well.
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 03:20 PM   #6
zengravy
Registered
zengravy's Avatar
United_States
0
Rep
3
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 BMW 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin, Texas

iTrader: (0)

I would love to know the answer to this as well. I, like many others it appears, would prefer to have either SMG or DSG available from the start of production rather than have to wait.
__________________
335i Coupe ED 11.06
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 03:32 PM   #7
Hans Delbruck
BMW & MB - friends in my garage
Hans Delbruck's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
1,285
Posts

 
Drives: C63, 135i, 1959 BUICK
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Having DSG for the new M3 is the most exciting development yet to me (beside the V8)

BMW is probably still working on this new transmission, which is why they won't announce when the car will be available (especially in the US, since we all seem to prefer the "automagic" kind of trans)

I hope they will release the car as early as possible in the US, even if DSG isn't ready. At least those of us waiting will be able to test drive the car with a manual, and the car rags will be able to review it. I personally will wait to BUY when the new trans is ready, and I understand I will be a bit of a guinea pig... and that is OK with me. I am willing to deal with some bugs if it has this new technology. On the other hand, I am not willing to deal with one single bug if it has SMG 3. By now, SMG 3 had better be perfect and I'd better love it.
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 04:10 PM   #8
CSL-Fanatik
First Lieutenant
CSL-Fanatik's Avatar
23
Rep
383
Posts

 
Drives: e92 M3 DCT
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Boulder

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
Auto-Motor-Sport.de states NO SMG at the beginning, only a 6 speed manual. And then DSG after some time into the production. So they say, it will not come with SMG at all. I believe it.


Best regards
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 06:27 PM   #9
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
Having DSG for the new M3 is the most exciting development yet to me (beside the V8)

BMW is probably still working on this new transmission, which is why they won't announce when the car will be available (especially in the US, since we all seem to prefer the "automagic" kind of trans)

I hope they will release the car as early as possible in the US, even if DSG isn't ready. At least those of us waiting will be able to test drive the car with a manual, and the car rags will be able to review it. I personally will wait to BUY when the new trans is ready, and I understand I will be a bit of a guinea pig... and that is OK with me. I am willing to deal with some bugs if it has this new technology. On the other hand, I am not willing to deal with one single bug if it has SMG 3. By now, SMG 3 had better be perfect and I'd better love it.
+1, exactly. I will pass on my allocation (spot #4) until I can get SMG or DSG.

On a related note look at the acceleration benefits you can get from a DSG type system. Here the 2 cars are really close with the 6M maybe a hair ahead. Either was the cars are quite closely matched. No look at how the 6M shifts impact acceleration after one or after a couple shifts. DSG has such short (practically instant) shifts that the thing acts in ways like a CVT (constantly variable transmission). The benefits to acceleration (not to mention mpg) are fantastic. Damn, I hope I don't have to wait for DSG or SMG at least much past 1st US allocations.

I guess BMW would seem quite behind the market without DGI and DSG on this flagship vehicle. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 06:32 PM   #10
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by monsta View Post
I completely agree & I hope they work out the kinks, I would hate to get DSG & then have some of the problems that the M5 boys have had w/ SMGIII & all the faults ect ect...

ps. what's up TBone didn't realize you were over here too from M5board...I'm DucatiBMW over there

Hey man.... I am here because I put an order in for a E90 335xi and this is best source of info for the 335 like the M5board for the M5 / M6.

Touch wood, I have not had any problems with my SMG3 on the M6 but many have had problems. I have been stranded 3 times in my old E46 m3 with SMG2.

I just hope whether BMW does SMG or DSG, they have to make it reliable.

Oh....better avatars on this board
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 06:41 PM   #11
verman
New Member
verman's Avatar
1
Rep
18
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

Agreed -- will pass on my deposit secured spot as well if BMW doesn't bring the SMG or DSG at or near release...
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 10:22 PM   #12
GotAlottaCash
Lieutenant
GotAlottaCash's Avatar
8
Rep
540
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i/ 08' 528i
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Naples, Florida

iTrader: (4)

i dont even know what DSG is. i know what SMG is... i read somewhere DSG has a double clutch? what are the benefits?
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 10:43 PM   #13
RandyB
Lieutenant Colonel
RandyB's Avatar
United_States
15
Rep
1,504
Posts

 
Drives: '03 330i, '09 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Time to man-up and go with a true manual trans!
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2007, 10:59 PM   #14
Pourky
First Lieutenant
Pourky's Avatar
8
Rep
311
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i / E46 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Los Angeles / SoCal

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
+1, exactly. I will pass on my allocation (spot #4) until I can get SMG or DSG.

On a related note look at the acceleration benefits you can get from a DSG type system. Here the 2 cars are really close with the 6M maybe a hair ahead. Either was the cars are quite closely matched. No look at how the 6M shifts impact acceleration after one or after a couple shifts. DSG has such short (practically instant) shifts that the thing acts in ways like a CVT (constantly variable transmission). The benefits to acceleration (not to mention mpg) are fantastic. Damn, I hope I don't have to wait for DSG or SMG at least much past 1st US allocations.

I guess BMW would seem quite behind the market without DGI and DSG on this flagship vehicle. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Sorry if this sounds dumb, but I want to know...how much time difference you think there is from a DSG Teanny to a Manual Teanny (With driver shifting real quick in the manual)???
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2007, 12:58 AM   #15
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Can only make a reasonable guess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pourky View Post
Sorry if this sounds dumb, but I want to know...how much time difference you think there is from a DSG Teanny to a Manual Teanny (With driver shifting real quick in the manual)???
Based on these figures you see almost a full second 0-60, granted in much slower cars. I would not expect the difference to be anywhere close to as large on a much faster car and one that would have such a better and quicker MT. I think the difference you could expect due solely to tranny performance would be about the fastest a human can shift which is about 0.3 seconds x number of gear changes to 60 (1). This would be the time lost between 6MT and 7DSG. The other important factor is consistency. DSG will be almost pefect and less then 10ms shifts EVERY time. If you are going to higher speeds the difference gets multiplied by the number of shifts involved and also adds even more becuase you are accelerating during that time with DSG and decelerating with MT! Over long distance such as on the track it seriously adds up.
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2007, 01:40 AM   #16
paulyd
Second Lieutenant
United_States
4
Rep
278
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to paulyd
so is there even any noticeable shift shock at all?

and not a chance the mpg would be improved enough to avoid gas guzzler tax would it?
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2007, 08:46 AM   #17
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
Time to man-up and go with a true manual trans!

Man-Up, Slow-Down
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2007, 11:26 AM   #18
E36325is
Second Lieutenant
Hong Kong
5
Rep
220
Posts

 
Drives: 1M coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

My dealer claims that the DSG will be available from start??? Should I believe him?
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2007, 12:00 PM   #19
ILC32
Lieutenant
ILC32's Avatar
18
Rep
580
Posts

 
Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by verman View Post
Agreed -- will pass on my deposit secured spot as well if BMW doesn't bring the SMG or DSG at or near release...
Same here. It will pain me to do it, but I will pass on my slot (#1) until SMG or DSG is available.
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2007, 12:17 PM   #20
MI6
The World is Not Enough
MI6's Avatar
United_States
64
Rep
1,063
Posts

 
Drives: Aston DBS-R
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Skyfall

iTrader: (0)

Better Avatars???? T-bone I love your Laguna Seca Blu Oprah Avatar.........can't imagine you with anything else.................
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2007, 12:21 PM   #21
DonM3
Captain
United Kingdom
6
Rep
629
Posts

 
Drives: AW e92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London

iTrader: (1)

I too will probably pass on my slot until SMG or DSG is available. Will be extremely dissappointed it SMG or DSG is'nt avaiable from the start. This uncertainty is killing me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
Same here. It will pain me to do it, but I will pass on my slot (#1) until SMG or DSG is available.
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2007, 11:29 AM   #22
m34life
Registered
0
Rep
2
Posts

 
Drives: awM3vert
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ct

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GotAlottaCash View Post
i dont even know what DSG is. i know what SMG is... i read somewhere DSG has a double clutch? what are the benefits?


http://cars.about.com/od/thingsyoune...owDSGworks.htm
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:04 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST