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      03-01-2011, 12:50 AM   #1
dexx
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S65 - why no flat plane crankshaft?

Sometimes I wonder, it would sound insane, less nascar.
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      03-01-2011, 01:07 AM   #2
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Not sure about the production cost deltas between the two. It strikes me as being negligable, as the only major component difference is the shape of the crank and the lack of counterweights. But, I'm by no means an expert in this department...

That said, I think the primary reason for BMW going with a cross-plane crank design is because it produces less vibrations and is inherently more balanced than a flat-plane crank, which makes the car much more livable for its target audience.

At any rate, here's the P65-equipped (flat-plane crank) ALMS M3:

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      03-01-2011, 04:31 AM   #3
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Cross plane has improved NVH (noise vibration and harshness) over the flat plane.
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      03-01-2011, 09:33 AM   #4
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Some more good discussion can be found in past threads too:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...com+flat+plane
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      03-01-2011, 08:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip View Post
I don't think a flat plane crank wouldn't be cost effective.
It's a lot cheaper to produce man . That's exactly how V8s started life back in the late 1800s. It was until the 1920s that advance in manufacturing techniques gave birth to the cross-plane crank. I definitely like the sound of the S65 better over the F430, even with an aftermarket exhaust (they sound like crap stock IMO).
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      03-02-2011, 10:23 AM   #6
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Would it be possible to use a flat plane crank in the S65??? Thats what I would like to know!!!
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      03-02-2011, 10:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexx View Post
Sometimes I wonder, it would sound insane, less nascar.
So the engineers should design an engine around sound rather than function?
Ok
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      03-02-2011, 11:18 AM   #8
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I think the biggest issue is packaging. Flat plane needs more width and less height, but I don't think they have any width to give in a front-engine car, unless you make the hood a couple feet longer :-)
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      03-02-2011, 11:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexx View Post
Sometimes I wonder, it would sound insane, less nascar.
The BMW Motorsport P65 race engine as derived from the S65 has a flat plane crank.
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      03-02-2011, 12:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///My5UV View Post
I think the biggest issue is packaging. Flat plane needs more width and less height, but I don't think they have any width to give in a front-engine car, unless you make the hood a couple feet longer :-)
You are thinking of a horizontally opposed engine layout (often called a "boxer"). The thread is about a flat plane crank. It adds nothing to the dimensions of the engine; it just changes the shape of the crankshaft.
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      03-02-2011, 01:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
It's a lot cheaper to produce man . That's exactly how V8s started life back in the late 1800s. It was until the 1920s that advance in manufacturing techniques gave birth to the cross-plane crank. I definitely like the sound of the S65 better over the F430, even with an aftermarket exhaust (they sound like crap stock IMO).
Owning an F430 and an M3 I can tell you that the M3 sound is not close. I agree that the F-Car needs an aftermarket exhaust which I have. But nothing comes close to the F-Car sound IMO and many others........Steve
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      03-02-2011, 02:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needspeed View Post
Owning an F430 and an M3 I can tell you that the M3 sound is not close.
A matter of opinion; I like the M3's more refined engine sound better , but at the same time, nothing sounds like a Ferrari. I like the sound A LOT better from the inside than outside, however. Have the stock exhaust but with FabSpeed pipes (no valves) and tips, and it's too loud IMO, plus drones like hell with the top up ('06 F430 Spider here). Need to get to a rally to hear all aftermarket options, but read higher-pitched exhausts drone less. I see you also have the same handle at Fchat . But they're TOTALLY different cars; don't mind the noise on the F-car, but I do on the M3 (stock exhaust here). Later.

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      03-02-2011, 02:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
You are thinking of a horizontally opposed engine layout (often called a "boxer"). The thread is about a flat plane crank. It adds nothing to the dimensions of the engine; it just changes the shape of the crankshaft.
Oops, yeah, I realized that later. My bad.
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      03-02-2011, 09:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoshi71 View Post
So the engineers should design an engine around sound rather than function?
Ok
LOL fanboism. Flat-plane performs better.. Why do you think race teams replace their crank with one?

Unequal exhaust pulses FTL....
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      03-03-2011, 06:29 AM   #15
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Cost and NVH. More M3's than F430's are sold. I still wish my M3 had a FPC.
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