BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
Race Precision Motorsport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-06-2011, 10:19 PM   #23
RickyBobby
Lieutenant
 
RickyBobby's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NorCal

Posts: 468
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
Any more updates?
Still enjoying them. I went for a spin in the hills this weekend and continue to be impressed.
I'll probably be pretty active in NASA tt this year and will have results and data logging to share as the season progresses.
RickyBobby is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2011, 10:25 PM   #24
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,647
iTrader: (5)

Do they feel, ride and handle much better then your old Motons?
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S-SOLD
2010 GT3
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2011, 10:57 PM   #25
RickyBobby
Lieutenant
 
RickyBobby's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NorCal

Posts: 468
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
Do they feel, ride and handle much better then your old Motons?
It's hard for me to compare them against the Motons because I never really got the Motons to work on the car, but I'd say they're pretty darn close!

The AST's and Motons have a very different feel to them in terms of ride quality - not sure if I would say one is better than the other, just different.

As far as adjustablilty, they both satisfy both ends of the spectrum really well and provide a (relatively) comfy street ride AND solid track performance. The Moton's 'clicks' made more of a difference but I found the less sentive AST clicks easier to dial in. I sometimes felt like the sweetspot of the motons would have been in between adjustment clicks.

Stalker, did you get your JRZ's yet? It will be interesting to see how those stack up too!
RickyBobby is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2011, 11:05 PM   #26
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,647
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
It's hard for me to compare them against the Motons because I never really got the Motons to work on the car, but I'd say they're pretty darn close!

The AST's and Motons have a very different feel to them in terms of ride quality - not sure if I would say one is better than the other, just different.

As far as adjustablilty, they both satisfy both ends of the spectrum really well and provide a (relatively) comfy street ride AND solid track performance. The Moton's 'clicks' made more of a difference but I found the less sentive AST clicks easier to dial in. I sometimes felt like the sweetspot of the motons would have been in between adjustment clicks.

Stalker, did you get your JRZ's yet? It will be interesting to see how those stack up too!
Still waiting.
Last I heard they were making a few changes to the camber plates, that is what is holding things up.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S-SOLD
2010 GT3
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 03:25 PM   #27
flipm3
E46 + E90
 
Drives: E46 M3 + E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois

Posts: 2,772
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
thanks for the review!! it would be to hear how these compare to the JRZ RSs in performance!
__________________
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread
E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread
flipm3 is offline   Philippines
0
Reply With Quote
      03-13-2011, 08:01 PM   #28
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,647
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
It's hard for me to compare them against the Motons because I never really got the Motons to work on the car, but I'd say they're pretty darn close!

The AST's and Motons have a very different feel to them in terms of ride quality - not sure if I would say one is better than the other, just different.

As far as adjustablilty, they both satisfy both ends of the spectrum really well and provide a (relatively) comfy street ride AND solid track performance. The Moton's 'clicks' made more of a difference but I found the less sentive AST clicks easier to dial in. I sometimes felt like the sweetspot of the motons would have been in between adjustment clicks.

Stalker, did you get your JRZ's yet? It will be interesting to see how those stack up too!
On the street, is the ride "bouncy" at all? I know we don't know your spring rates, so that will be a big variable.

Did AST get the bump stops right in your opinion?

Did you experience any snap on oversteer at the track, is the rear end planted through the apex?
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S-SOLD
2010 GT3
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-22-2011, 09:47 PM   #29
masitr
Private First Class
 
masitr's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NW Ohio

Posts: 146
iTrader: (6)

How does the car ride on the street?
masitr is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2011, 12:46 AM   #30
HP Autosport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, Quaife, Stoptech, Vorshlag

Posts: 11,112
iTrader: (29)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
On the street, is the ride "bouncy" at all? I know we don't know your spring rates, so that will be a big variable.

Did AST get the bump stops right in your opinion?

Did you experience any snap on oversteer at the track, is the rear end planted through the apex?
I don't believe the bump stop is the issue here. Most of the suspension manufactures and tuners did not take the much lowered ride height and reduced compression travel into consideration and simply use standard body rear dampers, which offer plenty of compression travel at oem ride height, but greatly reduced when a vehicle is lowered too much.

One thing to keep in mind is that lower is not better here. And we all know what happens when your run your M3 too low.

You can trim the bump stops(not a good idea as bump stops serves as secondary springs and most importantly to prevent bottoming of your dampers), using shorter compression damper cushions(you are not gaining much here, a few mm's at best), the better or maybe the best solution is to use a short body damper.
HP Autosport is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-24-2011, 04:56 PM   #31
CSMRX7
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Calgary

Posts: 560
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
They're monotube double adjustable. Rebound is on the top and compression is on the bottom. The adjustment clicks are very positive and solid feeling too.

Here is a picture of the camber plate.
Are you sure they are monotube? The AST site says that the 4200 are twintube.
CSMRX7 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      03-26-2011, 12:04 AM   #32
RickyBobby
Lieutenant
 
RickyBobby's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NorCal

Posts: 468
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
On the street, is the ride "bouncy" at all? I know we don't know your spring rates, so that will be a big variable.

Did AST get the bump stops right in your opinion?

Did you experience any snap on oversteer at the track, is the rear end planted through the apex?
Sorry, I could swear I answered your questions but I don't see the post.

The car is not bouncy even with 600+ springs. Also no issues with bumpstops like the motons and no snap oversteer.

CSMRX7, They're definitely monotube. Show me the link that says they are twin tube.
RickyBobby is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-08-2011, 08:06 PM   #33
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,647
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
Sorry, I could swear I answered your questions but I don't see the post.

The car is not bouncy even with 600+ springs. Also no issues with bumpstops like the motons and no snap oversteer.

CSMRX7, They're definitely monotube. Show me the link that says they are twin tube.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S-SOLD
2010 GT3
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-08-2011, 11:27 PM   #34
HP Autosport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, Quaife, Stoptech, Vorshlag

Posts: 11,112
iTrader: (29)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
Sorry, I could swear I answered your questions but I don't see the post.

The car is not bouncy even with 600+ springs. Also no issues with bumpstops like the motons and no snap oversteer.

CSMRX7, They're definitely monotube. Show me the link that says they are twin tube.
If your rear dampers were to sit on the bump stop and fully compress it, then the car is likely to go into snap oversteer. It's okay to touch or even compress the bump stops slightly through a corner.
HP Autosport is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-09-2011, 08:43 AM   #35
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,647
iTrader: (5)

RickyBobby, did you consider the 5100 series as well when you purchased these?
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S-SOLD
2010 GT3
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-24-2011, 09:01 PM   #36
Justin(OKC)
SMYLMKR
 
Justin(OKC)'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3, 1988 M3, 2015 X1
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Posts: 1,367
iTrader: (7)

Garage List
I had 5200's on my 135i (with M3 rear camber links) and will be upgrading to 5300's and putting them on my E90 M3. Been working with Harold and settled on 500#/800# setup. OP, do you happen to know the lengths of your springs and are you willing to disclose your spring rates?

FWIW, I too am sold on these dampers with the swift springs. The ride on the street is incredible and the performance is definitely there!!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 - Alpine White/Fox Red Extended/Carbon Leather
Premium/Convenience/Cold Weather Package - Competition Package - M-DCT - Sunshades - EPS - BMW Apps - Sat Radio - Ipod/USB
Justin(OKC) is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-25-2011, 11:42 PM   #37
RickyBobby
Lieutenant
 
RickyBobby's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NorCal

Posts: 468
iTrader: (1)

Stalker, I didn't consider the 5100's because I wanted double adjustable shocks. The 5200's weren't available yet so I got the 4200's. I may have splurged for the 5200's if they were an option at the time but they do add a considerable amount of cost and NASA TT points for the marginal performance gain. No regrets with the 4200's..

Justin, congrats on the M3. Front springs should be 7" and the rears should be 9" total lengh (8" w/ helper or 9" depending on rates). I'm not sure I believe in any of the magic that people are claiming with the swift springs. I have run both swift and hyperco on the AST's and felt no difference at all. When held side by side, they both had the same number of coils and looked pretty darn close in wire diameter. They're both top notch springs but do not have any bearing on the ride quality like the marketing martial suggests.

I knocked off a 2:01 at thunderhill last weekend all while locking up the rears due to being sent the wrong front brake pads. I can't wait to go back next month with the right pads.

I do have to report that I just took off one shock to send back for warranty repair due to leaking. I'm sure it will be turned around very quickly and I'll be back on the road in no time.

Last edited by RickyBobby; 04-25-2011 at 11:47 PM.
RickyBobby is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-26-2011, 07:33 AM   #38
Justin(OKC)
SMYLMKR
 
Justin(OKC)'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3, 1988 M3, 2015 X1
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Posts: 1,367
iTrader: (7)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
Stalker, I didn't consider the 5100's because I wanted double adjustable shocks. The 5200's weren't available yet so I got the 4200's. I may have splurged for the 5200's if they were an option at the time but they do add a considerable amount of cost and NASA TT points for the marginal performance gain. No regrets with the 4200's..

Justin, congrats on the M3. Front springs should be 7" and the rears should be 9" total lengh (8" w/ helper or 9" depending on rates). I'm not sure I believe in any of the magic that people are claiming with the swift springs. I have run both swift and hyperco on the AST's and felt no difference at all. When held side by side, they both had the same number of coils and looked pretty darn close in wire diameter. They're both top notch springs but do not have any bearing on the ride quality like the marketing martial suggests.

I knocked off a 2:01 at thunderhill last weekend all while locking up the rears due to being sent the wrong front brake pads. I can't wait to go back next month with the right pads.

I do have to report that I just took off one shock to send back for warranty repair due to leaking. I'm sure it will be turned around very quickly and I'll be back on the road in no time.
RickyBobby, thanks for the reply. I've got 8" springs with helpers on the rear I believe from my 1 series. I'll go with the 7" springs and add a helper if the spring is loose at full droop. I really think these dampers are amazing!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 - Alpine White/Fox Red Extended/Carbon Leather
Premium/Convenience/Cold Weather Package - Competition Package - M-DCT - Sunshades - EPS - BMW Apps - Sat Radio - Ipod/USB
Justin(OKC) is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-26-2011, 08:40 AM   #39
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,647
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
Stalker, I didn't consider the 5100's because I wanted double adjustable shocks. The 5200's weren't available yet so I got the 4200's. I may have splurged for the 5200's if they were an option at the time but they do add a considerable amount of cost and NASA TT points for the marginal performance gain. No regrets with the 4200's..

Justin, congrats on the M3. Front springs should be 7" and the rears should be 9" total lengh (8" w/ helper or 9" depending on rates). I'm not sure I believe in any of the magic that people are claiming with the swift springs. I have run both swift and hyperco on the AST's and felt no difference at all. When held side by side, they both had the same number of coils and looked pretty darn close in wire diameter. They're both top notch springs but do not have any bearing on the ride quality like the marketing martial suggests.

I knocked off a 2:01 at thunderhill last weekend all while locking up the rears due to being sent the wrong front brake pads. I can't wait to go back next month with the right pads.

I do have to report that I just took off one shock to send back for warranty repair due to leaking. I'm sure it will be turned around very quickly and I'll be back on the road in no time.
Thanks for the for the feedback.
Hopefully they get a new shock out to you fast.

Did they tell you exactly what the problem is??
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S-SOLD
2010 GT3
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-26-2011, 12:15 PM   #40
RickyBobby
Lieutenant
 
RickyBobby's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NorCal

Posts: 468
iTrader: (1)

I'm sending it back today so I'm not sure of the root cause. It's covered under warranty with the promise to get it back to me before my next (double points) event so all is good as far as I'm concerned.

I'll post back when I break 2 minutes next month.
RickyBobby is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-05-2011, 05:35 AM   #41
m_parade
Private First Class
 
Drives: 08 Jet Black M3 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Posts: 153
iTrader: (0)

Would you say this setup is comparable/more advanced than the KW Clubsport?
m_parade is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2011, 04:18 AM   #42
mastek
e36s54, F10M5, e70X5d
 
mastek's Avatar
 
Drives: slow
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 1,568
iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
Are you sure they are monotube? The AST site says that the 4200 are twintube.
What they mean by "twin tube" is:
If the shock is "Double-Adjustable", but does NOT have an external reservoir canister .. it is considered a "twin-tube" design.

True Double-Adjustable 'Monotube' shocks usually have an external reservoir canister (2 Monotube shocks = Dual-Adj)

http://www.ast-usa.com/ast-4200-shoc...ilover-kit.php

AST-USA are calling it a "monotube" design ... with "INTERNAL DOUBLES" ??
Thats basically "Twin-Tube"
So I myself am confused by the terminology at this point.
mastek is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2011, 04:20 AM   #43
mastek
e36s54, F10M5, e70X5d
 
mastek's Avatar
 
Drives: slow
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 1,568
iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
I'm sending it back today so I'm not sure of the root cause. It's covered under warranty with the promise to get it back to me before my next (double points) event so all is good as far as I'm concerned.

I'll post back when I break 2 minutes next month.
I've seen Advanced Design, Konis, Motons and JRZs leak ... so I dont think it's an 'exclusive' problem.
We have a 4200 kit for one of our e36m3 race cars on its way -- but its taking a bit, due to the true rear coilover setup
mastek is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2011, 11:46 AM   #44
HP Autosport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, Quaife, Stoptech, Vorshlag

Posts: 11,112
iTrader: (29)

It is a single tube, monotube. It essentially has a reservoir in line
at the base of the shock. In circle track world they call it a base
valve. And it is pressurized.

A twin tube has concentric tubes and oil flows from one tube to the
other. In between the two tubes is a valve usually called a foot
valve. Twin tubes are rarely pressurized but those that are have the
gas mixed in the oil. That is called emulsion. AST 4200 keeps the gas
and oil separated.
HP Autosport is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:24 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST