BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-14-2011, 08:45 PM   #1
consolidated
Lieutenant Colonel
consolidated's Avatar
38
Rep
1,744
Posts

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
SES, strange O2 sensor faults

I have a full Akra Evo system on my car, one of the first so it's seen some miles. I recently had the Akrapovic specific ESS software installed and removed the Akra Delete-R module. No other engine modifications.

I'm getting the following faults, 272C, 272D, 273E and 273F, they all concern the heating of all 4 (both banks, both sensors) O2 sensors being out of range, too low. The faults return as soon as the car is started. It appears that the sensors are not heating as they should be.

The O2 sensors are all reading and sending per the Bavarian Technic tool, just not heating...what could have caused this? My shop pulled and reconnected the sensors but it didn't help. Does this sound like all 4 sensors could possibly be bad? I'm hoping for informed opinions before I committ to 4 sensors at $900.
__________________
F80 M3 / Mineral Grey-Silverstone / CCB
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2011, 04:20 PM   #2
consolidated
Lieutenant Colonel
consolidated's Avatar
38
Rep
1,744
Posts

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Any thoughts at all welcome. FWIW the engine also has a surging/slowing idle at the first start everyday, very abrupt until it settles which takes about 30 seconds.
__________________
F80 M3 / Mineral Grey-Silverstone / CCB
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2011, 04:40 PM   #3
J08M3
Major General
J08M3's Avatar
United_States
102
Rep
6,012
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

iTrader: (8)

exactly why I won't buy any companies tune for a couple of HP. The headaches just don't outweigh the benefits.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2011, 04:44 PM   #4
Jaypod
Brigadier General
Jaypod's Avatar
No_Country
64
Rep
4,962
Posts

 
Drives: Frozen M3, AM V8V, 991 GT3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by consolidated View Post
Any thoughts at all welcome. FWIW the engine also has a surging/slowing idle at the first start everyday, very abrupt until it settles which takes about 30 seconds.
How does the car feel or drive? Any different than it did before the tune? Also the surging/slowing - is it similar to the rough idle to get the cats warmed up. Did you have a different tune before the ESS Akra Tune?

I doubt I can help, but these were some questions that popped in my mind. I find it weird all four would fail at the same time.
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2011, 05:01 PM   #5
consolidated
Lieutenant Colonel
consolidated's Avatar
38
Rep
1,744
Posts

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
It's not certain is has anything to do with the tune, I have one sensor being installed to see if it's truly bad sensors before committing to all 4.

Jaypod, there was no software previously. It runs a little differently but it just maybe me.
__________________
F80 M3 / Mineral Grey-Silverstone / CCB
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2011, 05:21 PM   #6
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
39
Rep
2,332
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

See if you can find a bad fuse on the O2 sensor heating circuit. If the fuse checks out good than maybe call Roman @ ESS and see if he can do something for you. He can probably send out one of their new flash loader tools (unless you already have it) to you so that you can email him the file from your ECM and they can verify that the O2 sensor heating is enabled on your current software.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2011, 05:27 PM   #7
Jaypod
Brigadier General
Jaypod's Avatar
No_Country
64
Rep
4,962
Posts

 
Drives: Frozen M3, AM V8V, 991 GT3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by consolidated View Post
Jaypod, there was no software previously. It runs a little differently but it just maybe me.
Thats a good plan - the only reason I mentioned that was it does that rough start stock. I have the AA tune so it is smoother at start up than OEM.

Edit: just to be clear I wasnt suggesting it was a bad tune - just that there tune may have the same rougher start like OEM.
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2011, 06:49 PM   #8
DublinM3
Private
0
Rep
70
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Everywhere

iTrader: (0)

You should check your fuse and also the wiring of your 02's.
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2011, 06:52 PM   #9
Jaypod
Brigadier General
Jaypod's Avatar
No_Country
64
Rep
4,962
Posts

 
Drives: Frozen M3, AM V8V, 991 GT3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
See if you can find a bad fuse on the O2 sensor heating circuit. If the fuse checks out good than maybe call Roman @ ESS and see if he can do something for you. He can probably send out one of their new flash loader tools (unless you already have it) to you so that you can email him the file from your ECM and they can verify that the O2 sensor heating is enabled on your current software.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DublinM3 View Post
You should check your fuse and also the wiring of your 02's.
Those both sound like good advice and would seem to make sense.

Hope its only a fuse. Let us know
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2011, 08:44 PM   #10
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
39
Rep
2,332
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by consolidated View Post
It's not certain is has anything to do with the tune, I have one sensor being installed to see if it's truly bad sensors before committing to all 4.

Do not change any O2 sensors...... It is almost impossible for all four sensors to go bad at once.

Jaypod, there was no software previously. It runs a little differently but it just maybe me.
To be honest with you I doubt it is a fuse but it makes sense to check and see if their is a fuse in the panel for the O2 sensor heating circuit because that is the simplest check one can do. Also there should be no reason for the wiring to have gotten damaged so I doubt that is the issue either.

My money is on the O2 sensor heating being mistakenly disabled when they were removing the catalyst monitoring (rear O2 sensors) for your Akrapovic Software. If this is the case it will be as simple as reading and saving your file (with the ESS Direct Flash Tool) and emailing it to ESS so they can double check your file/modify it. A few clicks of a mouse, and then they will email you back your new/fixed file then you reflash your ECM and all should be OK.

I am PM'ing you my phone number, please call me...... I would like to get a little more background on the way this issue unfolded.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!

Last edited by BMRLVR; 02-15-2011 at 08:55 PM.
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2011, 01:00 AM   #11
consolidated
Lieutenant Colonel
consolidated's Avatar
38
Rep
1,744
Posts

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Thanks guys. Great posts.
__________________
F80 M3 / Mineral Grey-Silverstone / CCB
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2011, 11:51 PM   #12
STALKER
Brigadier General
50
Rep
3,665
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3, 991 C4S, 997 GT3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by consolidated View Post
I have a full Akra Evo system on my car, one of the first so it's seen some miles. I recently had the Akrapovic specific ESS software installed and removed the Akra Delete-R module. No other engine modifications.

I'm getting the following faults, 272C, 272D, 273E and 273F, they all concern the heating of all 4 (both banks, both sensors) O2 sensors being out of range, too low. The faults return as soon as the car is started. It appears that the sensors are not heating as they should be.

The O2 sensors are all reading and sending per the Bavarian Technic tool, just not heating...what could have caused this? My shop pulled and reconnected the sensors but it didn't help. Does this sound like all 4 sensors could possibly be bad? I'm hoping for informed opinions before I committ to 4 sensors at $900.
I had the same codes recently come up with the same tune. Working with Roman to get it sorted.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S-SOLD
2010 GT3
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2011, 12:02 AM   #13
consolidated
Lieutenant Colonel
consolidated's Avatar
38
Rep
1,744
Posts

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
I had the same codes recently come up with the same tune. Working with Roman to get it sorted.
Glad I'm not alone on this, let's stay in contact. I bought a new O2 sensor to test if indeed I had dead sensors, it faulted just like the others.
__________________
F80 M3 / Mineral Grey-Silverstone / CCB
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2011, 12:36 AM   #14
Roman@ESS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Roman@ESS's Avatar
108
Rep
2,664
Posts


 
Drives: ESS Supercharged E92 M3
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AZ

iTrader: (5)

Have you checked to see if a fuse went down ? One of the power leads to a O2 could have shorted causing O2 power circuit to go down which would trigger these codes. Nothing in our tune changes O2 heating or sensor signals in any way. Check this out and send me an email or PM with the result.
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2011, 12:36 AM   #15
AJ@ESS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
1
Rep
199
Posts


 
Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

The tune does not alter O2 heater programming at all. If you have 4 heater related errors, you most likely have a blown O2 heater circuit fuse. This can happen if one sensor shorts out and takes the circuit down as all 4 sensors share the same power supply. Most likely a sensor got beaten around a bit during installation of the Akra, and it shorted. This can happen as the O2 sensors are relatively fragile. It can also be that all 4 sensors are damaged and circuit is OK, but this is highly unlikely.

We maintain the OEM cold start cat heat cycle in order to satisfy US emissions requirements. This initial vanos phazing can easily be switched off for a smoother than OEM initial start, but only for off road use as the car will no longer be able to pass cat heat up testing.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2011, 08:43 PM   #16
consolidated
Lieutenant Colonel
consolidated's Avatar
38
Rep
1,744
Posts

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Resolved

Resolution: user error

My shop found the blown fuse, #11, and sure enough it was the fuse for the O2 sensor heaters. But it kept blowing even with all 4 sensors unplugged. The culprit was a grounded wire at the ECU.

When I pulled and re-installed the ECU for ESS's tune I rubbed/pinched a wire that shorted against the ECU's heatsink body. It took a very careful examination of harness at the ECU to find it, just a tiny nick is all it took.

By chance it was for the O2 sensors and having just installed software I thought for sure the two were related. Well, it was, but the fault was all mine by not being careful enough when I removed and replaced the ECU, if you've seen your ECU compartment you know it's a tighly woven cluster F of wires.

I must say is that Roman and ESS were very helpful, and graciously communicated with my shop and offered diagrams when they knew the problem lay with a hardware issue and not their software. Thanks for that guys. I hope we didn't drag you thru the coals for too long.

The car is running beautifully now.
__________________
F80 M3 / Mineral Grey-Silverstone / CCB
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2011, 08:46 PM   #17
Sean@PYSpeed.com
Sean@PYSpeed.com's Avatar
United_States
145
Rep
8,956
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 AW E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (22)

Send a message via AIM to Sean@PYSpeed.com
Glad to see it solved. How you like the Akra setup? Hope everything else is well.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2011, 08:52 PM   #18
consolidated
Lieutenant Colonel
consolidated's Avatar
38
Rep
1,744
Posts

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean@PYSpeed.com View Post
Glad to see it solved. How you like the Akra setup? Hope everything else is well.
It's perfect. Just noisy enough to feel like I'm driving something with a real motor but not so much as to look like a douche, with all due respect of course to those that choose otherwise.

The ESS software is a geniune improvement, I just wanted to pass inspection, but honestly the car just runs smoother, the dip is much reduced and it just tugs more readily on top.
__________________
F80 M3 / Mineral Grey-Silverstone / CCB
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2011, 09:45 PM   #19
jacobe92
Lieutenant
jacobe92's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
444
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 Frozen Red
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cerritos, CA

iTrader: (2)

Ess tune

I'm glad it worked out. I can't wait to get mine done. I drove my buddy's car last week with an Akra-evo and a Ess tune and his car is a BEAST!!!
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2011, 12:38 AM   #20
Roman@ESS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Roman@ESS's Avatar
108
Rep
2,664
Posts


 
Drives: ESS Supercharged E92 M3
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AZ

iTrader: (5)

Glad it has been worked out
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2011, 12:00 PM   #21
DublinM3
Private
0
Rep
70
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Everywhere

iTrader: (0)

It sounded like a blown fuse. Glad to hear you got it resolved.
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2011, 02:37 AM   #22
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
39
Rep
2,332
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Glad this got resolved....... I guess I was right with my first instinct of a blown fuse. Great to see that ESS was helpful with finding a solution. ESS
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:33 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST