BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Heel & Toe Apparel
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-04-2011, 08:58 PM   #1
dpohlman
Private
United_States
4
Rep
92
Posts

Drives: e92 M3 (Space Grey) ESS V1 535
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Iowa

iTrader: (0)

ESS 535 or 575?

I have a completely stock 2009 E92 DCT M3, and I only have 2,200 mile on it at this point. I was ready to consider moving to a "p" car next year, but I think I want to super charge the M3 and keep it for a couple of more years. It is only a summer car, but I want great power and performance, and it just doesn't scare me anymore in stock form.

It really boils down to having 535hp and no separate cooling, or 575hp and the more complete cooling ability. It is also $8K vs $13K. Not quite double, but it is materially more cost.

Thoughts??

Last edited by dpohlman; 03-04-2011 at 09:53 PM.
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2011, 10:23 PM   #2
erm324
Major
United_States
52
Rep
1,186
Posts

Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

go for the 575 so you can always upgrade to the 600 or 625 easily (pully and tune only) if you get tired of the 575
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2011, 11:16 PM   #3
Evolved M3
Private First Class
Evolved M3's Avatar
8
Rep
154
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by erm324 View Post
go for the 575 so you can always upgrade to the 600 or 625 easily (pully and tune only) if you get tired of the 575
Can't you also just switch the pulley on the 535? I recall reading a thread where the OP was running the VT-1 535 at 5.39psi. When someone asked why its so high when the kit is supposed to be at 4.5psi only, they responded saying he is running the 5psi pulley.

I will prob go for the 535 when the time comes...i would love one of the VT2's but it's too much to spend for me on the car. And if you could upgrade the 535 to run slightly higher psi and still be safe then i'll def just go with that one.

Here is the link actually to the guy running the VT1-535 with 5psi pulley (hitting 5.39psi) http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406982
__________________
-ASR Engineering Exhaust - ASR Engineering X-Pipe - Macht Schnell Filter -
-ESS TUNING VT2585-
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2011, 12:35 AM   #4
w00tw00t
Lieutenant Colonel
w00tw00t's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
1,823
Posts

Drives: 2016 MW M4
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpohlman View Post
I have a completely stock 2009 E92 DCT M3, and I only have 2,200 mile on it at this point. ...Thoughts??
Wow!! I have had my 2011 e92 for just two months and I already have 3200 miles on it ...
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2011, 12:37 AM   #5
erm324
Major
United_States
52
Rep
1,186
Posts

Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

yeah to upgrade to VT2 you need to install the intercooler....
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2011, 03:37 AM   #6
808E90
808E90
808E90's Avatar
United_States
99
Rep
4,019
Posts

Drives: E90 ///M
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aloha State

iTrader: (21)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpohlman View Post
I have a completely stock 2009 E92 DCT M3, and I only have 2,200 mile on it at this point. I was ready to consider moving to a "p" car next year, but I think I want to super charge the M3 and keep it for a couple of more years. It is only a summer car, but I want great power and performance, and it just doesn't scare me anymore in stock form.

It really boils down to having 535hp and no separate cooling, or 575hp and the more complete cooling ability. It is also $8K vs $13K. Not quite double, but it is materially more cost.

Thoughts??
Yeah ... I thought about the same thing!! After a few phone calls with Roman I decided to go with the VT1 and use the other 5Gs on other bolt on parts. I'm really happy with my VT1 and I really can't see myself needing the extra 40HPs. I live in Hawaii where it's pretty hot year round and so far the VT1 has performed like the first day I got it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erm324 View Post
go for the 575 so you can always upgrade to the 600 or 625 easily (pully and tune only) if you get tired of the 575
I don't think it's just the pulley and tune ... I'm not 100% sure but I think you have to change the bypass valve and fuel injectors too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolved M3 View Post
Can't you also just switch the pulley on the 535? I recall reading a thread where the OP was running the VT-1 535 at 5.39psi. When someone asked why its so high when the kit is supposed to be at 4.5psi only, they responded saying he is running the 5psi pulley.

I will prob go for the 535 when the time comes...i would love one of the VT2's but it's too much to spend for me on the car. And if you could upgrade the 535 to run slightly higher psi and still be safe then i'll def just go with that one.

Here is the link actually to the guy running the VT1-535 with 5psi pulley (hitting 5.39psi) http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406982
I'm also running the 5psi pulley on my VT1 and it runs fine ... Anything higher will require a smaller belt.
__________________
LTMW FTL . Karbonwerks LCI Trunk . Vorsteiner Poly Front Lip . NA Motorsports LUX H8 . RECARO Pole Position Seats . BMW Performance Pedals . BMW Performance Performance Grills . BMW Painted Fender Grills . BBS 19x9.5 19x11 LMs . Michelin PS2 265/295 . H&R Sport Springs . Wheel Mate 45/55MM Stud Kit . BBS Red Lug Nuts . ESS VT1 Supercharger . Akrapovic GT4 Exhaust
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2011, 04:05 AM   #7
Ferre86
Captain
Ferre86's Avatar
Turkey
18
Rep
947
Posts

Drives: E93 M3/H2/SL350/Panamera 4/
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Turkey

iTrader: (0)

even from 600 to 625 kit it requires an fuel injectors upgrade..
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Ferre86

| e93 M-DCT ESS VT2-625 | Akra Slip-on | Challenge Race Catless x-pipe | Challenge front lip | Challenge Diffuser | Carbon front grilles | defi gauges control unit | Macht Schnell gauge panel | E93 M3 trunk Spoiler | IND Carbon Fiber Side Markers |
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2011, 04:28 AM   #8
Rshane
M-Flight Member
Rshane's Avatar
United_States
16
Rep
1,090
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas

iTrader: (0)

There ıs a post about thıs somewhere. I thınk ıt requıres a new ıntake, ınjectors, ıntercooler, pulley, tune and a few other odds and ends. I wıll see ıf I can fınd the thread.

EDIT: Here ıt ıs: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ss+535+upgrade

Holy Crap...I was the one that asked the very same questıon...my mınd ıs goıng.

Last edited by Rshane; 03-05-2011 at 04:33 AM.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2011, 10:25 PM   #9
dpohlman
Private
United_States
4
Rep
92
Posts

Drives: e92 M3 (Space Grey) ESS V1 535
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Iowa

iTrader: (0)

Am I correct in that the cost to upgrade from the ESS 535 to the ESS 575 is about $5K - according to AJ from ESS? If that is truly the case, then there is not much downside to starting with the 535 - given that the upfront price difference is about $5K. It seems then like upgrading later would essentially be the same "all in" cost.

I am really wondering if the M3 platform (with rear wheel only drive) can maintain enough traction to take advantage of much more power than what the ESS 535 brings. In theory more hp is better, but in practical terms there is a clear point where more hp is no longer adding a material difference.

Where do those with ESS experience think that point really falls?

Last edited by dpohlman; 03-05-2011 at 11:23 PM.
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 03:19 AM   #10
duk
///M
United_States
63
Rep
3,086
Posts

Drives: 2011 AW/FR 6MT E92
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (0)

either is great... 535 if you want to save a few $$$ then upgrade later
__________________
2011 AW/FR 6MT E92 | Powered by Premier | Alekshop | ESS |
Rok n Peace Clothing: www.roknpeace.com

Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 03:47 AM   #11
LV-E92M3
Lieutenant
LV-E92M3's Avatar
Afghanistan
6
Rep
507
Posts

Drives: Donkey
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: كابول‎

iTrader: (1)

it's your choice, but if you like speed stick with the 575 kit.
__________________
E92 M3 DCT/ESS VT-575/FABSPEED hfc's/AE exhaust/BBS LM 19'/ KW CS/RD sways/STOPTECH TK/ RECARO PP /BMW PSW/WIECHERS SPORT roll cage/CF parts that covers the back seat/VRS hood/bumper/csl trunk/diffuser type 2/CF:mirror cap/side & front grills
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 10:06 AM   #12
dpohlman
Private
United_States
4
Rep
92
Posts

Drives: e92 M3 (Space Grey) ESS V1 535
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Iowa

iTrader: (0)

Question

I would really like to see Roman or AJ from ESS weigh in on my question of when is more HP just more HP and not better - given traction considerations. Especially if I am not aiming for top end speed (I can't use it often enough to matter), but the 0-120mph is very important to me.

I currently find myself wrestling with the decision related to the 535 kit at roughly $8K vs the 575 kit (with liquid intercooler) at $13K. Also, it seems like I can upgrade to the 575 kit in the future for about the difference in the upfront cost (if I am correctly understanding AJ's feedback on another post related to the 535 kit being upgradable to the 575 kit for about $5K).

I have DCT car, so do those with ESS Superchargers and DCT see a meaningful difference by also adding the ESS DCT software to the mix?

Thoughts?
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 10:13 AM   #13
J08M3
Major General
J08M3's Avatar
United_States
132
Rep
6,009
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpohlman View Post
I am really wondering if the M3 platform (with rear wheel only drive) can maintain enough traction to take advantage of much more power than what the ESS 535 brings. In theory more hp is better, but in practical terms there is a clear point where more hp is no longer adding a material difference.
Careful..... I posted this very question a couple years ago and the mod addicts on this forum went crazy, claiming you could never have to much hp.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 12:30 PM   #14
sales@ESSTuning
sales@ESSTuning's Avatar
191
Rep
3,155
Posts

Drives: ESS M3 / M4
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AZ

iTrader: (6)

How much HP you add to the car is really personal preference. I have spent a lot of time with the VT1-535 and VT2-575 in my personal car and both kits provide plenty of power for street use and on the track. The additional 8%-10% HP the 575 kit adds to the car over the 535 is noticeable. People are often surprised at how fast this car really is with 535 + HP. You really can't go wrong with one or the other in my opinion as both systems get very good reviews from the customers who own them.
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 12:32 PM   #15
Rshane
M-Flight Member
Rshane's Avatar
United_States
16
Rep
1,090
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpohlman View Post
I would really like to see Roman or AJ from ESS weigh in on my question of when is more HP just more HP and not better - given traction considerations. Especially if I am not aiming for top end speed (I can't use it often enough to matter), but the 0-120mph is very important to me.

I currently find myself wrestling with the decision related to the 535 kit at roughly $8K vs the 575 kit (with liquid intercooler) at $13K. Also, it seems like I can upgrade to the 575 kit in the future for about the difference in the upfront cost (if I am correctly understanding AJ's feedback on another post related to the 535 kit being upgradable to the 575 kit for about $5K).

I have DCT car, so do those with ESS Superchargers and DCT see a meaningful difference by also adding the ESS DCT software to the mix?

Thoughts?
There are quıt a few threads where Roman and AJ have answered these questıons already. Just do a search for ESS.

The costs turn out to be about the same...however I thınk you wıll be payıng for two tunes ınstead of one unless you can work out a deal. I donīt belıeve the DCT software ıs necessary unless you go hıgher than the 575 kıt. All ıt does ıs basıcally lower the torque hıt to the tranny durıng shıfts to keep the heat down and ıncrease longevıty of the DCT.
__________________
2011 Le Mans Blue M3// Black extended Novillo w/ Blue Grey Aluminum trim/DCT/ZTP/ZCW/ZPP/ZCP Premium Sound ///Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust

2015 Audi S4 Prestige, Brilliant Black S-tronic
2012 Le Mans Blue 135i M Pkg DCT
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 02:10 PM   #16
dpohlman
Private
United_States
4
Rep
92
Posts

Drives: e92 M3 (Space Grey) ESS V1 535
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Iowa

iTrader: (0)

Thank you all for the additional feedback. I would welcome more thoughts and feedback if others have them.

Roman, am I correct that I could effectively upgrade to the 575 kit from the 535 kit for about $5K? AJ had made that comment in a previous post, but I was hoping for some additional clairification. If my interpretation of AJ's post is correct, then I think I am going to start with the 535 kit. If I feel the need for more HP someday, I can always upgrade to something more at that time (without very much of an economic hit).
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 02:21 PM   #17
chris s
Major General
chris s's Avatar
518
Rep
6,654
Posts

Drives: 2016 SMB F80 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New York

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpohlman View Post
Thank you all for the additional feedback. I would welcome more thoughts and feedback if others have them.

Roman, am I correct that I could effectively upgrade to the 575 kit from the 535 kit for about $5K? AJ had made that comment in a previous post, but I was hoping for some additional clairification. If my interpretation of AJ's post is correct, then I think I am going to start with the 535 kit. If I feel the need for more HP someday, I can always upgrade to something more at that time (without very much of an economic hit).
The difference in cost is just over $5k....about $5100 if my memory serves me. The cost difference on the kits is more like $4700. Also consider that the swap to a 575 will probably run you anywhere from $500 to $800 or so to install...unless you plan to DIY. It's almost like installing a whole new kit.
__________________
2016 Individual F80 M3 - San Marino Blue|Full Amaro | Built by IMG Motorsport and Prime Performance | Mode Carbon | ESS | Akrapovic EVO | KW HAS | M Performance...
2012 MR e92 M3 DCT, fully loaded... GONE but not forgotten!
2008 e92 M3 Coupe 6MT | AW/BLK Extended...SOLD!
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 02:34 PM   #18
CBS
Major
CBS's Avatar
United_States
27
Rep
1,242
Posts

Drives: F10535, E90M3, E30M3, E28M5
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA - Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2017 Alpina B6 (in ...  [0.00]
2014 535xi M Sport  [0.00]
2014 X3 3.5 M Sport  [0.00]
2011 M3 E90  [4.90]
2007 Z4 M Coupe  [0.00]
1990 M3  [4.75]
1988 M5  [5.00]
OP: Enclosed is from ESS Website. This may help you make a decision if you can run 93.


VT1-535 specs :

Boost pressure: 4.5 PSI
Horsepower on 91AKI/95RON: 535 SAE (30% gain over stock)
Horsepower on 93AKI/98RON: 550 SAE (33% gain over stock)
Torque on 91AKI/95RON: 370ft/lbs
Torque on 93AKI/98RON: 380ft/lbs
__________________

ESS VT-1 550 | M24 Oil Cooler | Fall Line Half Cage | RaceTech 4009W | 6 pt Harness | Lifeline Zero 360 Fire Suppression | Rear Seat Delete | Motion Control DA Dampers w/remote reservoirs | 900/650 Hyperco Springs | RD Sport Sway Bars | Brembo 380 BBK | GC Camber Plates | Hoosier R7 | Eisenmann Sport | Stack Gauges | Painted Challenge Front Lip | Painted ZCP Rear Spoiler | Xpel Ultimate Film | LuxAngelEyes
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 02:36 PM   #19
chris s
Major General
chris s's Avatar
518
Rep
6,654
Posts

Drives: 2016 SMB F80 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New York

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBS View Post
OP: Enclosed is from ESS Website. This may help you make a decision if you can run 93.


VT1-535 specs :

Boost pressure: 4.5 PSI
Horsepower on 91AKI/95RON: 535 SAE (30% gain over stock)
Horsepower on 93AKI/98RON: 550 SAE (33% gain over stock)
Torque on 91AKI/95RON: 370ft/lbs
Torque on 93AKI/98RON: 380ft/lbs
That's good to see... we have 93 all over the place in my area. My concern with the 535 is not lack of power...but the lack of cooling.
__________________
2016 Individual F80 M3 - San Marino Blue|Full Amaro | Built by IMG Motorsport and Prime Performance | Mode Carbon | ESS | Akrapovic EVO | KW HAS | M Performance...
2012 MR e92 M3 DCT, fully loaded... GONE but not forgotten!
2008 e92 M3 Coupe 6MT | AW/BLK Extended...SOLD!
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 05:17 PM   #20
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
United_States
139
Rep
961
Posts

Drives: 2x01 330, 02 M3, 13 ZCP M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris s View Post
That's good to see... we have 93 all over the place in my area. My concern with the 535 is not lack of power...but the lack of cooling.
People have run the 535 all over the place without any issues in cooling. ESS has tracked 535 versions and they work perfectly fine.
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 06:14 PM   #21
CBS
Major
CBS's Avatar
United_States
27
Rep
1,242
Posts

Drives: F10535, E90M3, E30M3, E28M5
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA - Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2017 Alpina B6 (in ...  [0.00]
2014 535xi M Sport  [0.00]
2014 X3 3.5 M Sport  [0.00]
2011 M3 E90  [4.90]
2007 Z4 M Coupe  [0.00]
1990 M3  [4.75]
1988 M5  [5.00]
Yes, I too was told the VT-1 would be fine on the track even during the hottest days. Obviously I don't expect the same power when it's that hot but I could be wrong.

I don't have first hand experience but I will later this summer and will post. My VT-1 will be installed soon and I track my car.

I trust IND. I told them how I plan to use the vehicle (street and track) and they told me I should be fine in hot weather.
__________________

ESS VT-1 550 | M24 Oil Cooler | Fall Line Half Cage | RaceTech 4009W | 6 pt Harness | Lifeline Zero 360 Fire Suppression | Rear Seat Delete | Motion Control DA Dampers w/remote reservoirs | 900/650 Hyperco Springs | RD Sport Sway Bars | Brembo 380 BBK | GC Camber Plates | Hoosier R7 | Eisenmann Sport | Stack Gauges | Painted Challenge Front Lip | Painted ZCP Rear Spoiler | Xpel Ultimate Film | LuxAngelEyes
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2011, 08:01 PM   #22
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
United_States
139
Rep
961
Posts

Drives: 2x01 330, 02 M3, 13 ZCP M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

AJ and Roman have said that even the 625 can be tracked all day without an intercooler. It'll reduce power but it will continue working. I'd bet the 535 makes that power even when it's hot.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:39 PM.




m3post
m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST